Over on The Spearhead, W.F. Price celebrates the harassment directed at Anita Sarkeesian’s Tropes Against Women video project as a sign of a powerful new backlash against the evils of feminism, a backlash he’s proud to be a part of. Dudes being obnoxious to a woman on the internet: Men’s Rights at its finest.
Oh, sure, Price acknowledges, some of the attacks on her were “juvenile” – and thus not as effective as they might otherwise have been — and the controversy did enable Sarkeesian to raise more than $130,000 for her project, but Price even sees this as a victory of sorts:
As for Sarkeesian’s success, we should be happy about it, because I can’t think of a more worthless way to spend over a hundred thousand dollars than in finger-wagging over video games. For one thing, it’s sure to piss even more guys off, and the game industry is very competitive, so her documentary (now expanded to 12 parts!) will likely have zero effect on production and consumption of this form of entertainment. The feminists are simply pissing all the money away, and that’s fine, because this time they’re paying for it themselves.
No question about it: those grapes were definitely sour.
Naturally, the Spearhead regulars were overjoyed by these new signs of, er, progress. Here are some highlights from the discussion that followed; lest I be accused once again of cherry-picking outliers, each and every one of the comments I quote below got literally dozens of net upvotes. This is what these guys really think.
Mojo offers a sort of backlash manifesto:
Feminists will never understand that it is -they- who are the oppressors. They cling to their delusion that they are the ‘underdog’ against the system, even as they control the system.
Revolution requires an enemy class to attack … this is seen as justified when the enemy class controls the system. But feminism is perpetual revolution. So what happens when they gain control over the system? They continue to attack the enemy class, i.e. men, thinking they are striking the next blow against the patriarchy, when what they are doing is more like a pogrom.
Yep, he went there.
Now -they- are the system, they are able and more than willing to intimidate, humiliate, expropriate. It will get indefinitely worse if they have their way. Liberal feminism leads -necessarily- to radical feminism.
Still, we don’t need feminists to ‘understand’ that they are the persecutors (I imagine some of them know this full well and are just misandrist sadists, little Eichmanns). It doesn’t matter what they think or know or understand. What matters is what -we- think, know and understand, and how we are going to act on it.
So … like the swivel-eyed feminist lunatics progressing from attempted assassinations to laying the foundations for institutional and legal abuse … I ask you – what are we going to DO with this knowledge and awareness beyond changing online discourse? …
Thinking like a leftist, though: why not attach ourselves to the GOP in order to subvert its gender politics and radicalize it in the MRA direction? That kind of approach has worked wonders for leftists and their infiltrations into public institutions …
Huh. Reactionary anti-feminists attaching themselves to the Republican Party? No one’s ever thought of that before.
Keyster offers some equally, er, innovative thinking:
Feminism has failed because women as a group adopted the notion of “equality” with men, while stubbornly clinging to their sexual/reproductive power over men. Had feminism truly helped women “realize their greatness”, there’d be far more great women. Instead there’s just more feminists. It’s run it’s course over 3 generations and it’s out of time to prove itself righteous.
The original “male chauvanist pigs” of the early 70′s, were right all along. Women are biologically and chemically ill-equipped to be men. If the Creator had meant women to be more like men, he wouldn’t have given them the ability to bring forth life from their bodies.
Ryu not only embraces the backlash, but seems perfectly fine with the notion that the Men’s Rights movement is a hate movement:
Good. Hatred and anger are power. Whenever you hear someone say “stop the hate”, it is a call to throw down your greatest weapons.
Young Guy purports to speak for all young guys (manginas presumably excepted):
If feminists think men, especially young men, are angry, they don’t know the half of it. As a 26 year-old male, I have seen this society bend over backwards to accommodate women all the time.
The school curriculums are geared toward female success. Schools have countless women’s programs. Female teachers can be as hateful as they want towards male students without facing consequences. People cheer when girls succeed in school, but jeer when boys succeed in school. Even though females have every advantage in the education system, they somehow still have the audacity to complain. They take fluff majors but don’t realize anyone with less than half a brain could pass classes in the humanities and social sciences.
What makes so many MRAs such proud yahoos?.
Oh, and just look at the workplace. Sexual harassment laws give women freedom to dress slutty and still have the nerve to complain when men sneak a peek. If you are a man who has a female co-worker, you have to walk on eggshells everyday or else you can get fired because the twat in the other room got her panties in a bunch over something minor you said. You can be a man who has busted his ass everyday to succeed in your chosen profession, only to see it mean nothing because some woman who was nothing more than an affirmative action hire. If this isn’t bad enough, you get these useless women who are subpar, yet they still never shut up about breaking through the mythical glass-ceiling that they didn’t break and didn’t exist in the first place.
Working men, forever cursed by subpar women.
Also, I have really had enough of women dragging this country down with their dead-weight. Female soldiers, police officers, and firefighters are liabilities. No, all you ladies in these jobs, you aren’t heroes. I am going to go insane if I hear one more female soldier, police officer, or firefighter cry about not getting the respect she thinks she deserves. She doesn’t get respect because she doesn’t deserve respect. The military, law enforcement, and firefighters would be A LOT better off if women stopped lowering the bar to astronomical proportions.
“Lowering the bar to astronomical proportions?” Young Guy here has clearly not yet mastered the fine art of metaphor.
He blabs on a bit longer before wrapping up with:
The backlash is not only real, but it is well-deserved. Apologies won’t erase the damage which has been done. Acting like what happened because of feminism either didn’t happen or was minor is a slap in the face. Saying women have suffered from feminism just as much as men is like spitting in the faces of all the men who have suffered ten lifetimes of pain because of feminism.
Not one, not two, not five, but ten lifetimes of pain? MRAs really are the world’s greatest drama kings.
Andrew S., meanwhile, seems a little confused as to what feminists would like to see happening in the video game industry:
It will be interesting to see if feminists can ruin the gaming industry like they ruin pretty much everything else. There is a lot of money being made off “gamers,” and even guys like me who play the occasional game but aren’t hardcore contribute a lot of money to the industry.
I doubt there are a lot of young guys and men out there who are going to want to play games that involve a bunch of screaming feminists, and where the object of the game is to destroy the “evil patriarchy.” The truth is guys who play games want their female characters to be either hot, large breasted, ass kicking types, or sexy non-feminist types that you save. If the gaming industry changes this dynamic to much due to Feminist/liberal pressure they will destroy a cash cow. And feminism will have yet another “victory.”
Unrestricted and uncriticized access to giant tittied video game ladies: a sacred men’s right!
Kevin evidently speaks for many when he says he wants video games to remain a boys club:
Video games are pretty much the only place that feminism can’t invade unless the principle consumers of them want it. You don’t have to play with girls, or listen to girls, or do other pansy shit. You probably can’t leave a football team and join a different one that has no women, you sure as hell can do that online. Don’t like all the teamwork talk? Play by yourself.
Feminists don’t like video games because; they can’t make them, they can’t force you to buy them or play them even if they did, they couldn’t ruin the experience for you unless you wanted them to.
You can do anything feminists don’t want you to do, and best of all you’re rewarded for it.
Anonymous Age 70 doesn’t even play video games, but he was pleased to learn that you can shoot ladies in them:
Speaking of video games, I am reminded of my son 8 or 10 years ago. I visited him, and he had some kind of shoot-em-up video game. He was partnered with a dearie, and the instant the game started, he always put a bullet in the middle of her forehead. Then, he’d laugh as if it were the funniest thing ever.
I told him he was a sick man, but I was also laughing as if it were the funniest thing ever.
Seriously, he told me he performed better with her dead than needing to be protected.
A great analogy for marriage 2.0, yes?
Women, can’t live them, can’t shoot them in the head. Except in video games!
Criticizing video games is misandry!
Kiwi girl — you don’t want me, you want the former roommate (and he’s gay, so I can even promise he won’t hit on you)
cloudiah — “Okay, so my takeaway…Is that about right?” — sounds right to me.
“WHY ARE PEOPLE WILLING TO HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER BUT NOT WILLING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY LIKE/DISLIKE SEXUALLY??? This mystifies me.”
Seconding that. Best case you get lucky and like the same things, more likely you have mediocre sex (which is fine for a one night stand), worst case is you have crappy sex and get married without discussing it.
How any of this is feminism’s fault is beyond me, last I checked feminism was all for “be a better lover!” as the solution to many sexytimes problems (with “be a better lover!” including use your words people!)
And my apologies to the exclamation point.
And yet if this guy started hitting on me, or any of my straight women friends, at a bar we would all run screaming. Almost like women are all individuals, or something. Go figure.
Well, there’s this study (http://www.livescience.com/7483-beautiful-women-marry-attractive-men.html) that suggests reasons for partnering other than physical attractiveness, and this study (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1314344/Why-women-fall-men-look-like-father.html) which suggests… some kind of complicated resolution to the Electra complex?
“And yet if this guy started hitting on me, or any of my straight women friends, at a bar we would all run screaming.”
Um, wow…his ears about the same gauge as mine, and I could dig the jacket, but wtf is the rest of that shit?! More men definitely need to be cool with black eyeliner though (I blame cultural enforced heteronormative shit for this, not feminism, just ftr)
What is that hat?! Is he trying to be a goth time lord or something? (What, time lords have a thing for silly hats — “it’s a fez, I wear a fez now”)
Ugh. Why don’t people talk about what they want in bed? Because sometimes societal constructs make it damn near impossible without a lot of drama going on. I’m ace. Its easier to shut my mouth than deal with either proping up a fragile ego or the frigging marathons of sex as the guy tries desperatley to get me off. I really don’t care about sex one way or the other, its the relationship I’m there for.
“I can show you how to make a simple thrower that improves the strength of your throw. Easy.”
Are you sure that’s legal under Canadian law? I don’t doubt that you can do it, however, depending on the design, that may qualify as a prohibited weapon under the criminal code.
“Also, killing someone is not the way you necessarily want to go. You have to prove to the crown attourney that it was reasonable for you to think your life was at significant risk. Which means you’ll spend time at the cop shop, you’ll quiite possibly be charged with second degree murder and you’ll need a lawyer.”
That’s the case in the USA as well. And that’s perfectly fine, I don’t have a problem with that. The adage goes, “better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.”
“Exactly what scenario do you envision is so likely to happen that a gun is needed to defend yourself? In Canada?”
I admit, it’s not very likely that I’ll ever need one, and that’s a GOOD THING. However, if such an unlikely event should ever occur, I’d rather have one, and never need it, than need it and not have it. I want the lawful option to have one. It’s my RESPONSIBILITY to train with it. I get that.
@Argenti,well if either of you come to New Zealand… 🙂
Are we being warmed up for the “I bet you’d sleep with George Clooney/Brad Pitt/Russell Brand” accusation? I’m surprised that one hasn’t occurred yet (or did I miss it?)
And this hobo-looking guy, totally not sexy at all. Who’d ever find him attractive? Poor guy, destined to die alone and unloved… Well, they can’t all be this sexy hunk of manhood.
I don’t think you get the fact that just because a woman may have an ideal type she is most attracted to that she can never be attracted to someone that doesn’t fit that type. My ideal type is 6ft, slender but with good muscle definition, dark eyes, and long dark hair, I’ve never dated anyone who hit all of those requirements and my boyfriend is 5’10”, chubby, blue eyed, and blond, the exact opposite of my ideal physical type. I love him and find him sexy anyway because he manages to be sweet, caring, cuddly, thinks I’m hot, is good in bed and is a sadistic bastard (when I want that).
BTW, since the majority of people get married at some point in their lives, in the US 95% of people are or have been married by the time they are 55 (of the remaining 5% it’s a good proportion of them are probably attracted to the same sex so only a tiny percentage of heterosexuals don’t marry) short, fat, geeky guys clearly must date someone since they manage to get married in pretty large numbers.
Kiwi girl — “which suggests… some kind of complicated resolution to the Electra complex?” — sort of? Freud said women literally wanted to mate with their fathers, this seems to be saying that what women find attractive is correlated to what their father’s look(ed) like. To that article’s credit, it ends with —
“Perhaps the best beauty tip, therefore, is to aim to be a kind and helpful person.
Unlike the claims made for so many overpriced face creams, this one really has been ‘scientifically proven’ to work.”
@Argenti, Honestly the thing that disturbed me the most about that Mystery picture was the binoculars.
cloudiah — I was already too disturbed by that hat to really note his choice of neckwear. But yes, ick. Also, Aragorn *drools* — we also can’t forget this absurd hair.
@ragefromthebasement- In a zombie apocalypse, I would probably do the most logical thing and engage in hedonistic behaviors until I could not do so any longer then kill myself. I do not have any visions of the future where zombies and apocalypses are going on that could actually be good within my (short) lifetime.
Of course, if you were to actually survive, a gun would be a poor choice from a long-term standpoint. Melee weapons that allow the maximum reach to target (such as a sharpened shovel), plus thick light clothes to ward off bites, goggles and a mask to keep body juice from getting in your eyes and face, and sturdy boots would be a must.
Plus, the best way to ward off zombies is to get a small, cooperative group with each member offering multiple specialties in survival, fighting and foraging.
I find it laughable that anyone thinks they could survive a zombie apocalypse armed only with their precious gun. Even as a (responsible) gun-shootin’ American lady, I find that humorous.
You should move to the U.S. I’m being completely serious. The right to bear arms is constitutionally protected, lots of states allow concealed carry, and the stand-your-ground laws that have popped up all over the place (courtesy of NRA lobbying) provide a great deal of legal defense if you shoot someone.
Move down south. When my sister was in her residency in NC the nurses took her out skeet shooting. You can buy guns at Walmart. Hell, I live in a city with fairly strict gun control laws and I’ve had at least two guys take me to the range for dates.
I mean, if you’re going to spend hours whining about how feminism is terrible because it you can’t have a gun then you should do something about it.
You’ll still be stupid but at least you’ll have a firearm.
@Argenti- “LMR” stands for “Last Minute Resistance” when a pick up artist is close to getting sex out of his target but she decides that she doesn’t want it. A lot of “field reports” (how some PUAs share their pickup experiences with other PUAs) are down-right non-consensual in how they are written, and it scares the shit out of me that some people actually think that pushing someone down when they say “no” and just ignoring what they have to say is making “sex work” for them. *puke*
Besides, willing partners are often reoccurring (and more enjoyable!) partners. If a PUA (or anyone) employs “LMR” techniques, the sort of encounter they’re going to get is not going to be even close to what good, consensual sexy sex is like.
And given the crime rates, he’ll have so many more chances to put his training to work!
@Argenti, I added “sort of” as there was no element of competition with the mother, although I suppose one could consider finding a “hotter” version of the father at the equivalent age as being competitive.
My type is the character Daniel from Stargate SG1. My partner of 11 years is nothing like that character in looks, interest, or training. He also hasn’t mastered the “7 frowns”. Growing up, my best friends were geeks, I’m a geek, so…
Hmm… forgot to close my bold tag…
The most sexually successful man I know is a tall fat geek… I guess that explains it. Women love the tall fat geeky men!
My type is Jonathan Coulton! God that man is cute.
ACLAF, I’d like to change track a little here.
ACLAF, your view of masculinity and the cultural stereotype that surrounds it wrong, wrong, wrongitty wrong. Your view of what is is to be a man sounds like a hybrid between some turn-of-the-century boys own adventure, James Bond and the pool guy from a bad porno. It’s a fiction, and in many ways your view is worse than wrong, it’s harmful.
First, an anecdote. I went through adolescence in the ’90s. As the progeny of a raw-meat eating, 600lbs bench pressing, 6”4, self declared “gun-nut” and a 5”2 former hippy (hey, opposites attract) whatever genes that determined my build came from my mother. I’m a weed. I also had the misfortune to find hunting boring as watching paint dry, but took an immediate love of soccer, a game that my father, and those in the white bread semi-rural area I grew up in, described as “fag-ball”.
However, the ideal you describe as the pinnacle of manly-manliness was certainly dominant where I grew up. If you didn’t play football, cared about your grades and couldn’t beat-up the kid who had 100lbs on you, you weren’t a man. You were a poof, a fag, or (worst of all) a girl.
I got off easy, although my father an I never reconciled over the fact I’d rather kick a ball around and swear in French and Italian with the “lebs” and “wogs” down the road than blast some forest dwelling critter with a 30-30. But many other didn’t. Kids I knew were bullied mercilessly; dropped out of school; developed fine drug habits. The common denominator is that they DID NOT OR COULD NOT FIT INTO THE DOMINANT VIEW OF WHAT IT IS TO BE A MAN.
There is some evidence that this view is causing a lot of harm to men the world over, similar to the way that unrealistic body image affects women. The number of cosmetic surgery procedures for men increased over 88% from 1997 to 2010, greatly outstripping the growth for women, with many men going for the “Schwarzenegger look” (thanks Louis Theroux). Men now make up 25 percent of those with anorexia or bulimia and 40 percent of binge eaters, up from about 10% a decade ago. People do not starve themselves to obtain an ideal that is suppressed or looked down on in the media.
According to one study (Pope, Olivardia, Gruber, & Borowiecki, 1999) even toys are succumbing. Over the past 20 years, G.I. Joe toys have grown more muscular and currently have sharper muscle definition. The GI Joe Extreme action figure, if extrapolated to a height of 5’10”, would have larger biceps than any bodybuilder in history.
There is no attempt to squash this view of masculinity in favour of “girl power” today. Your tortured reading of “How to train your dragon” does not change the fact that muscle bound men are found on the cover of magazines, in movies and on TV.
But you know who is working to kick this stupid and unrealistic view of manly-manliness square in its no doubt huge testicles?
Feminists. Which is one of the reasons I’m proud to call myself one.
Good to know. 🙂
Nanasha — wow..no wonder glossary troll was getting so defensive about being told PUA tactics are “kind of rapey” — we were going too easy on the “kind of” part apparently. Yuck. (Wtf is the point of “push until you get a hard no” if you’re only going to rape her anyways?!)
Kiwi girl — hard to tell from that summary, but I would guess it has more to do with what she sees as being “good” traits than attractive traits (eg he’d make a decent father because her’s was). And if I’m ever in New Zealand I’d be happy to give people the death-glare while you show me around (the former roommate would make a better bodyguard, but I don’t think he’d ever be willing to fly, getting him to drive anywhere is enough work >.<)
“wow..no”
-1 internet for the MRA double period, that was supposed to be an ellipsis.
Utterly tangential, but — “I also had the misfortune to find hunting boring as watching paint dry” — I got paid to do that once. Or more precisely, to make sure the painters didn’t touch the servers, in context this meant I got paid to study, it was great.
I support the right of responsible gun owners to bear arms. Idiots, not so much. I don’t even want them to be carrying a pointed stick…or a banana, if you catch my drift.