So the fellas over on the Men’s Rights Subreddit were having a little discussion the other day about the c-word, and wondering just why so many ladies get so offended by that word. I mean, it’s just a word. (Not like “creep” which is the worst possible thing anyone could possibly call someone else, and a clear abuse of their human rights.)
Funcuz, for his part, blamed Oprah for the unpopularity of the c-word among women:
Hardwarequestions, in a rather circular manner, blamed the offensiveness of the word “cunt” on women, for being offended in the first place:
The only one who seemed to think the insult was genuinely a big deal was expletive-deleted, who rather likes it that way:
Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!
Wait, it’s one thing to acknowledge that speaking out on the internet can sometimes lead to the “abuser’s lobby asserting control” and to make a personal choice not to call abusers out on their behavior. It is quite another to conclude that “it is best to avoid being too critical of men” ever.
(A) We aren’t critical of men; we’re critical of misogynists, assholes, and (yes) creeps.
(B) When misogynists, assholes, and creeps hurl abuse at people who are critical of them, we should stick up for each other. And I am glad that we do, while recognizing that not everyone is in a place to do that safely.
If Pear_tree is merely a troll, I am an idiot for taking the time to type this out.
I think the men’s rights movement scored a strong victory against the word “cr***py” but that is only my interpretation.
I…I kind of want to put this on a plaque.
I like the term “shitass.” I heard it from a friend’s mother, and it’s stuck with me ever since. I’m also partial to “assclown.”
I also like dingleberry as an insult, when I’m free to be as crude as I like…
I swear a lot — a lot — in my private life, but I’ve been trying really hard to expunge all the sexist, homophobic, and ableist stuff outta there. Sometimes it’s hard to unpack it all.
Honestly, one of my favorite insults lately has been “creepy” (oh, sorry… “cr**py”), because of this blog. I’ve started using it in real life when appropriate. I always wonder if it’ll flush out some MRAs.
Why should men be shrouded from criticism? O_o
The thing is, the original post had an extra asterisk in it (ie. cr***py). Just that on its own makes it even more hilarious.
I still feel it is best to avoid being too critical of men, even with the theoretical protection of anonymity.
What? Men are such delicate snowflakes that the least bit of criticism will make them melt?
Right.
I’m a little lost on the grammar here. Is it that we shouldn’t criticize all men, or we shouldn’t criticize any man? The first we haven’t been doing in the first place, and the second has hilarious implications. “You can’t write that editorial against Mitt Romney! Don’t you know he’s a man?”
Wait.. “even with the theoretical protection of anonymity? So you are saying men are so violent that the least of criticisms is likely enough to lead to violence that even anonymity isn’t enough to protect someone?
That’s some scary shit… you have a fucked up view of men.
If Pear is talking about MRAs I can understand. They can be scary at times. Otherwise, wut?
I’m pretty sure pear_tree is a “us women, like me, because I’m totally a real woman, should treat the menfolk so much better!” type troll.
I mean, come on, “cr**py.”
Please learn the difference between bad and unwarranted — if one is being creepy, one should expect to be called a creep. And really, only a serious creep would have a problem with that, the rest of us would take it as a signal to, you know, stop being creepy. FFS she didn’t have him arrested or thrown out or even name him, she merely posted a video about things you shouldn’t do because they’re creepy.
Anyone else find the irony overwhelming? Man acts creepy, woman calls man creepy, woman gets shit for daring to call him creepy, man’s creepiness is basically lauded. Yet, had he been a rapist, we all fucking know it would be “why were you in an elevator alone with him at that hour?” // “how did you lead him on?” // etc.
I’d taken her video as “hey men? women have all these ‘ways not to get raped’, think you could not intentionally make that harder? don’t be creepy, k thnxs!”
NWO, you want to have a fit, take it up with the men who assault people in elevators, or the people who insist it’s a woman’s fault when she gets raped…oh wait, you’re one of the later.
I always felt that the “but you called me CREEEEEPY!!!” whinge on that whole thing was an extreme expansion on the “you detected it so you ejected it” kind of rhetoric that’s found an annoying niche in current US politics (particularly among conservatives). Like how it’s worse to be called sexist than to actually BE a sexist, it’s supposedly SO SO much worse for dudes to be called creepy than it is for someone to be intimidated by creepy behavior on a regular basis, sometimes even so much so it infringes on their work life.
What boggles my mind at that is how totally ironic that is. Dudes complaining that Watson and anyone who agreed with her was being “too sensitive” only to turn around and whinge about how horrible it is to be called creepy. They win ALL the projection.
By the way slavey, calling Rebecca Watson a “little girl”? Massively creepy.
One of my funniest memories of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Measured was when he apologized for using the C-word and possibly triggering any men reading. I don’t know if he was just failing to mock TWs, or if he was serious, but either way I died laughing
Fuck that.
I think I expressed myself badly. I feel threatened by the MRA because women who express feminist opinions online in a way that can be traced to them experience death threats, and threats of rape. I know Manboobz aims to mock them, but I don’t think I’m the only person who decides against expressing their own opinion for fear of reprisal. To me this is an MRA victory. I’d also point out the significant reduction in women registering for the same conference Elevatorgate happened at. The lurkers on the internet read the response to what Rebecca Watson said and make two notes, one to not say the same things themselves for fear of the same vitriol and two that the atheist community isn’t welcoming to them. Does reading what was said about Rebecca Watson make me think twice before expressing my honest opinion about someone (not for fear of offending that person, but for fear of the backlash from other men), then the answer is yes. I know that is personal but I severely doubt I’m the only one. The same is true from reading the comments on any newspaper message board, Youtube videos or anywhere else on the web. The MRA haven’t convinced me by their arguments but they have convinced me it is safer not to start my own blog or express too many opinions in a public forum.
In the real world it is less extreme, but yes I have many male colleagues/friends who when they find out I’m upset my sexist stuff express sexist opinions just to annoy me. Maybe that makes them not nice people but it doesn’t make life easier for me knowing they aren’t nice. In that way I stop pointing out things that upset me. I am happy that a lot of people throughout history haven’t taken the easy route. However it is difficult for me to understand how someone can deal with the hate they get for expressing feminist opinions, and how they can continue to do it.
this is in large part because tams organizers have made it clear that theyre not gonna take making it a safe place for women seriously, and they resent the implication that it isnt already, tho. i mean, it turns out there was a dude with a fucking upskirt cam walking around, and they did the absolute bare minimum possible about that.
pear, the only thing I wish for when facing someone with your fears, is that they don’t take those fears and act in counter productive ways to feminism, or take out negative emotions on feminists.
I think you’ve got the first step down here in being in touch with and admitting your fears instead of being in denial and then hating feminists, which I see all over the place. It’s upsetting to me because I know the underlying issue is, “awww you’re scared people aren’t going to like you, so you spew shit at us” bitterly. Makes me bitter.
Just do your best. If it’s too upsetting for you to express your opinions, then don’t have a blog. Understand your limitations. I’m sure most of us can think of a place on the net where we would not bother with the fight, for you that extends internet wide.
Each of us have personal temperaments and issues as well that are outside of the intellectual side of this. I just don’t have the energy for negative things from people, my PTSD gets triggered. “The stupid, it burns!” is more than a cute saying to me.
Take comfort in knowing that there are loads of smart witty folk out there speaking their minds and give support, even if that means just not giving them shit. 🙂 And that’s not directed at you or anything you have done, again, I’m speaking from observation of others.
I think that covers it.
Actually Elevatorgate happened at a skeptic event in Ireland not at TAM but that’s a minor quibble. The drop in registration is because the organizers of TAM chose not to learn anything from Elevatorgate and refuse to make it a safe space. The head of the JREF has even denied that there have been reports of harassment at TAM which was blatantly false.
It looks like the whole conference-harrassment problem might be changing actually. I only really glanced at it, but it looks like people raising a stink about harrassment at conferences seems to have started to have an effect.
I don’t want to attempt to link it because it’ll just explode in my face, but there’s a post on Stephanie Zvan’s blog (Almost Diamonds, on Freethought Blogs) about it right now.
OT — Shade, if you just copy the link in it’ll auto-magically make it a link, or you can use <a href=”link”>text</a>