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Men’s Rights Redditors baffled by women who don’t like the c-word

So the fellas over on the Men’s Rights Subreddit were having a little discussion the other day about the c-word, and wondering just why so many ladies get so offended by that word. I mean, it’s just a word. (Not like “creep” which is the worst possible thing anyone could possibly call someone else, and a clear abuse of their human rights.)

Funcuz, for his part, blamed Oprah for the unpopularity of the c-word among women:

Hardwarequestions, in a rather circular manner, blamed the offensiveness of the word “cunt” on women, for being offended in the first place:

The only one who seemed to think the insult was genuinely a big deal was expletive-deleted, who rather likes it that way:

Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!

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cloudiah
8 years ago

Wait, it’s one thing to acknowledge that speaking out on the internet can sometimes lead to the “abuser’s lobby asserting control” and to make a personal choice not to call abusers out on their behavior. It is quite another to conclude that “it is best to avoid being too critical of men” ever.
(A) We aren’t critical of men; we’re critical of misogynists, assholes, and (yes) creeps.
(B) When misogynists, assholes, and creeps hurl abuse at people who are critical of them, we should stick up for each other. And I am glad that we do, while recognizing that not everyone is in a place to do that safely.

If Pear_tree is merely a troll, I am an idiot for taking the time to type this out.

katz
8 years ago

I think the men’s rights movement scored a strong victory against the word “cr***py” but that is only my interpretation.

I…I kind of want to put this on a plaque.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

I have an elaborate array of pseudo-swears for work.

Oh my word! Oh dear! My goodness! Well jeez! Shoot! Darn! Gosh! Aw heck!

I sound like a hybrid of a grandmother and an extremely modest cowboy, but I don’t shock the patients.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

I like the term “shitass.” I heard it from a friend’s mother, and it’s stuck with me ever since. I’m also partial to “assclown.”

cloudiah
8 years ago

I also like dingleberry as an insult, when I’m free to be as crude as I like…

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

I swear a lot — a lot — in my private life, but I’ve been trying really hard to expunge all the sexist, homophobic, and ableist stuff outta there. Sometimes it’s hard to unpack it all.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Honestly, one of my favorite insults lately has been “creepy” (oh, sorry… “cr**py”), because of this blog. I’ve started using it in real life when appropriate. I always wonder if it’ll flush out some MRAs.

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
8 years ago

I still feel it is best to avoid being too critical of men, even with the theoretical protection of anonymity.

Why should men be shrouded from criticism? O_o

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

The thing is, the original post had an extra asterisk in it (ie. cr***py). Just that on its own makes it even more hilarious.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

I still feel it is best to avoid being too critical of men, even with the theoretical protection of anonymity.

What? Men are such delicate snowflakes that the least bit of criticism will make them melt?

Right.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

I still feel it is best to avoid being too critical of men, even with the theoretical protection of anonymity.

I’m a little lost on the grammar here. Is it that we shouldn’t criticize all men, or we shouldn’t criticize any man? The first we haven’t been doing in the first place, and the second has hilarious implications. “You can’t write that editorial against Mitt Romney! Don’t you know he’s a man?”

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Wait.. “even with the theoretical protection of anonymity? So you are saying men are so violent that the least of criticisms is likely enough to lead to violence that even anonymity isn’t enough to protect someone?

That’s some scary shit… you have a fucked up view of men.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

If Pear is talking about MRAs I can understand. They can be scary at times. Otherwise, wut?

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

I’m pretty sure pear_tree is a “us women, like me, because I’m totally a real woman, should treat the menfolk so much better!” type troll.

I mean, come on, “cr**py.”

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

A while back, on the laughable elevatorgate thread the poor lassie called a man creep/creepy. A woman calliing another woman creep/creepy means nothing, but a woman calling a man creep/creepy conjures images of stalker/rapist. Everyone of you claimed creep/creepy wasn’t bad at all. Being a woman, it carries no inherent insult. For a man it does carry an inherent insult when said by a woman. Ya’ll defended that little girl’s right to call that guy creep/creepy. Ya dictated it wasn’t bad at all. Pretty convenient.

Please learn the difference between bad and unwarranted — if one is being creepy, one should expect to be called a creep. And really, only a serious creep would have a problem with that, the rest of us would take it as a signal to, you know, stop being creepy. FFS she didn’t have him arrested or thrown out or even name him, she merely posted a video about things you shouldn’t do because they’re creepy.

Anyone else find the irony overwhelming? Man acts creepy, woman calls man creepy, woman gets shit for daring to call him creepy, man’s creepiness is basically lauded. Yet, had he been a rapist, we all fucking know it would be “why were you in an elevator alone with him at that hour?” // “how did you lead him on?” // etc.

I’d taken her video as “hey men? women have all these ‘ways not to get raped’, think you could not intentionally make that harder? don’t be creepy, k thnxs!”

NWO, you want to have a fit, take it up with the men who assault people in elevators, or the people who insist it’s a woman’s fault when she gets raped…oh wait, you’re one of the later.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

I always felt that the “but you called me CREEEEEPY!!!” whinge on that whole thing was an extreme expansion on the “you detected it so you ejected it” kind of rhetoric that’s found an annoying niche in current US politics (particularly among conservatives). Like how it’s worse to be called sexist than to actually BE a sexist, it’s supposedly SO SO much worse for dudes to be called creepy than it is for someone to be intimidated by creepy behavior on a regular basis, sometimes even so much so it infringes on their work life.

What boggles my mind at that is how totally ironic that is. Dudes complaining that Watson and anyone who agreed with her was being “too sensitive” only to turn around and whinge about how horrible it is to be called creepy. They win ALL the projection.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

By the way slavey, calling Rebecca Watson a “little girl”? Massively creepy.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

One of my funniest memories of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Measured was when he apologized for using the C-word and possibly triggering any men reading. I don’t know if he was just failing to mock TWs, or if he was serious, but either way I died laughing

Noadi
Noadi
8 years ago

I still feel it is best to avoid being too critical of men, even with the theoretical protection of anonymity.

Fuck that.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

I think I expressed myself badly. I feel threatened by the MRA because women who express feminist opinions online in a way that can be traced to them experience death threats, and threats of rape. I know Manboobz aims to mock them, but I don’t think I’m the only person who decides against expressing their own opinion for fear of reprisal. To me this is an MRA victory. I’d also point out the significant reduction in women registering for the same conference Elevatorgate happened at. The lurkers on the internet read the response to what Rebecca Watson said and make two notes, one to not say the same things themselves for fear of the same vitriol and two that the atheist community isn’t welcoming to them. Does reading what was said about Rebecca Watson make me think twice before expressing my honest opinion about someone (not for fear of offending that person, but for fear of the backlash from other men), then the answer is yes. I know that is personal but I severely doubt I’m the only one. The same is true from reading the comments on any newspaper message board, Youtube videos or anywhere else on the web. The MRA haven’t convinced me by their arguments but they have convinced me it is safer not to start my own blog or express too many opinions in a public forum.

In the real world it is less extreme, but yes I have many male colleagues/friends who when they find out I’m upset my sexist stuff express sexist opinions just to annoy me. Maybe that makes them not nice people but it doesn’t make life easier for me knowing they aren’t nice. In that way I stop pointing out things that upset me. I am happy that a lot of people throughout history haven’t taken the easy route. However it is difficult for me to understand how someone can deal with the hate they get for expressing feminist opinions, and how they can continue to do it.

Sharculese
8 years ago

I’d also point out the significant reduction in women registering for the same conference Elevatorgate happened at.

this is in large part because tams organizers have made it clear that theyre not gonna take making it a safe place for women seriously, and they resent the implication that it isnt already, tho. i mean, it turns out there was a dude with a fucking upskirt cam walking around, and they did the absolute bare minimum possible about that.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

pear, the only thing I wish for when facing someone with your fears, is that they don’t take those fears and act in counter productive ways to feminism, or take out negative emotions on feminists.

I think you’ve got the first step down here in being in touch with and admitting your fears instead of being in denial and then hating feminists, which I see all over the place. It’s upsetting to me because I know the underlying issue is, “awww you’re scared people aren’t going to like you, so you spew shit at us” bitterly. Makes me bitter.

Just do your best. If it’s too upsetting for you to express your opinions, then don’t have a blog. Understand your limitations. I’m sure most of us can think of a place on the net where we would not bother with the fight, for you that extends internet wide.

Each of us have personal temperaments and issues as well that are outside of the intellectual side of this. I just don’t have the energy for negative things from people, my PTSD gets triggered. “The stupid, it burns!” is more than a cute saying to me.

Take comfort in knowing that there are loads of smart witty folk out there speaking their minds and give support, even if that means just not giving them shit. 🙂 And that’s not directed at you or anything you have done, again, I’m speaking from observation of others.

I think that covers it.

Noadi
Noadi
8 years ago

Actually Elevatorgate happened at a skeptic event in Ireland not at TAM but that’s a minor quibble. The drop in registration is because the organizers of TAM chose not to learn anything from Elevatorgate and refuse to make it a safe space. The head of the JREF has even denied that there have been reports of harassment at TAM which was blatantly false.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

It looks like the whole conference-harrassment problem might be changing actually. I only really glanced at it, but it looks like people raising a stink about harrassment at conferences seems to have started to have an effect.

I don’t want to attempt to link it because it’ll just explode in my face, but there’s a post on Stephanie Zvan’s blog (Almost Diamonds, on Freethought Blogs) about it right now.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

OT — Shade, if you just copy the link in it’ll auto-magically make it a link, or you can use <a href=”link”>text</a>

indifferentsky
8 years ago

Exploding links, another reason to be afraid of the interwebz.
Shiver.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Thanks!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/06/26/american-atheists-want-people-to-have-sex-at-their-conferences/

She also links through to Jason Thibeault’s blog (Lousy Canuck) where there’s more specific information on a draft policy. It’s specifically for the American Atheist conferences, but there’s also a mention that the TAM organisers might have started to get their acts in gear too.

/end public service announcement

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
8 years ago

@pear_tree
I disagree that mras won a “victory” from elevator gate with “creepy” though I am not sure what that means even. I seemed to have misunderstood what you meant so sorry about that. It is pretty ridiculous just the amount of feminist backlash so I could understand you being anxious to post online.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Like Holly, Elevatorgate just made me use the word creepy even more freely. You want to scream at other people for being “oversensitive” and then whine about being called creepy? Cool, then when you whine about being called creepy I’m going to point out that you are in fact being oversensitive.

Also, the fuss over the word creepy is such a perfect encapsulation of the broader point about how male privilege works, and it’s too important to back down on. The reason some guys lose their shit whenever a woman calls a man creepy is that by calling a man creepy a woman is asserting her boundaries and stating that she finds the man’s crossing of them unacceptable. Backing off on that point is basically saying that it’s OK for men to ignore women’s boundaries, and that women have no right to ever object to any way that men behave towards them. There’s a reason this became such a flashpoint, and it’s much too big a deal to back down on, because if women aren’t allowed to assert even the most basic boundaries, or object when men cross them, then what has feminism actually achieved? The pushback against “creepy” is a pushback against the idea that women are people with rights.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Add me to the list who is using creepy more than I used to… because of Elevatorgate.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

I don’t understand why “creep” is such an insult. It’s not even as bad as being called fat or ugly. it is more reflective of what you DO, rather than who you ARE. And then of course the Radiohead song kicks ass.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

I was really sheltered as a kid, and yet I thought I knew all of the “bad words.” Of course, this didn’t help me from being teased mercilessly by being nicknamed “blowjob” for a day (no, I did not give blowjobs to people or anything like that, that’s just 13 year old boys being jerks for ya), since I took it literally and didn’t realize what it was at the ripe old age of 13 (of course, when I mentioned it to my mom in a humorous way, she gave me this horrified look and I immediately felt horribly ashamed and sad that people had been cruel to me and I hadn’t even realized it).

I didn’t realize that the word “cunt” was actually considered to be the worst word in the whole world. Needless to say, I was never CALLED that word, nor did I hear it used pretty much ever, but when I read that book by Inga Musico with the title of the same name, I pretty much learned there for the first time about what it meant.

In a lot of ways, I’m a bit like a robot. Words that are supposed to make me feel bad about myself don’t really affect me all that much, just like how, because my parents sheltered me from TV throughout my childhood, I have a difficult time suspending my disbelief while watching a show or a movie (I can still enjoy it, but I find myself less shocked or excited when something bad or good happens).

But I honestly think that if someone doesn’t want to be called a name or classified in a certain way, then that’s messed up and shitty. Sure, free speech and all, but that doesn’t mean that by using said speech a person is free from being classified as a pompous asshole (see: the majority of MRAs).

Yeah, you have the right to say what you want. But I have the right to disagree and think that you’re horrible for saying misogynistic/racist/homophobic/etc things.

scarlettpipistrelle
8 years ago

Wow, there are so many possibiilities if you know that someone with an upskirt camera is in the neighborhood. Something insulting for him to see or just plain “Blair Witch” weird – arachnoid, maybe. But then the dudes on The Spearhead will be all pontificating cuz they’ll think it’s real. Could be good for some lulz.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

That is a genius idea. I wonder if attaching tentacles to your knickers would be terribly uncomfortable. For those on a budget they could just attach a few leftover Halloween decorations with double sided tape.

scarlettpipistrelle
8 years ago

A dude with a kilt could join in the fun as well. We’re equal opportunity here.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Rage: I think that’s what bothers them, actually. If you just said, “You are a lump of drifting duckweed, slimy, reeking; a stinking puddle of squamous cromulence”, they would just go, “enh”.

But if you say they are creeps, that’s something which has some sting, because they have to actually explain why they aren’t creepy.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Speaking as a dude with kilts, and long hair, I can see where they might get what they weren’t bargaining for.

katz
8 years ago

Awww, anti-manboobz is talking about how awful the word “creep” is.

Props to him for a post that isn’t a one-line quote from a comment followed by “OMG MBZ AMIRITE?”, I guess…

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Naturally, gendered insults relating to women- “cunt”, “pussy”- are seen as far more taboo than male-specific pejoratives- “dick”, “prick”. Despite this widespread societal capitulation, feminists and their assorted vag-lickers…”

All the irony. (‘cept I’ve run “vag-licker” by a few straight guys, consensus is it is an insult, but to the idiot saying it XD )

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

If a woman- or a man- feels that their boundaries are violated, I would recommend they say just that- “You are violating my boundaries”.

Oh yeah, I’m sure that MRAs would be super happy about that. If that caught on, they’d just decide that “b**ndary v**later” was the new terrible anti-male slur.

(I’m all for people saying “you are violating my boundaries,” but it’s not their job to do so. Being harassed is not a job assignment. It does not create the obligation for the harassed person to be totally emotionally neutral, preserve their harasser’s privacy, and take the responsibility for not being harassed entirely upon themself.)

But “creepy” doesn’t necessarily mean boundary-violator. More often, “creepy” means “you seem to be testing boundaries, or you seem unaware of boundaries, or you seem to be nerving yourself up to willfully disregard boundaries.”

These are also things that women are allowed to observe, discuss, and even (zomigosh no!) disapprove of.

nwoslave
8 years ago

And now to regender the post from CassandraSays | June 26, 2012 at 6:54 pm

Like Holly, Elevatorgate just made me use the word c*nt even more freely. You want to scream at other people for being “oversensitive” and then whine about being called c*nt? Cool, then when you whine about being called c*nt I’m going to point out that you are in fact being oversensitive.

Also, the fuss over the word c*nt is such a perfect encapsulation of the broader point about how female privilege works, and it’s too important to back down on. The reason some girls lose their shit whenever a man calls a woman c*nt is that by calling a woman c*nt a man is asserting his boundaries and stating that he finds the woman’s crossing of them unacceptable. Backing off on that point is basically saying that it’s OK for women to ignore men’s boundaries, and that men have no right to ever object to any way that women behave towards them. There’s a reason this became such a flashpoint, and it’s much too big a deal to back down on, because if men aren’t allowed to assert even the most basic boundaries, or object when women cross them, then what have MRAs actually achieved? The pushback against “c*nt” is a pushback against the idea that men are people with rights.
————-

Clearly you can see the entitlement mentality of the overly-privileged, modern day woman, and how they’re horrified that a man would dare insult a woman back. The internet essentially ended the MSM stranglehold women enjoyed for so long of insulting, ridiculing and denigrating men while remaining aloof to any criticism. The disbelief women must’ve felt after so many decades of carte blanche reminds one of how the apes were astonished when Charlton Heston first spoke on planet of the apes.

Bravo, CassandraSays, your little lecture is the perfect example of how completely entitled so many women consider themselves. Everyone here without a doubt.
————–
@Noadi
“The drop in registration is because the organizers of TAM chose not to learn anything from Elevatorgate and refuse to make it a safe space.”

From coffee drinking men who dare to ask a woman for her precious company? Is it time to take back the night from these evildoers? Do the equal one’s need special privileges? Perhaps rose pedals strewn at you feel while you walk? The smell of cinnimon buns in the air while gentle music plays in the backround? Men, genuflecting whenever a woman enters the room, hanging on her every enlightened word.

Tatjna
Tatjna
8 years ago
Reply to  nwoslave

“By calling a woman c*nt a man is asserting his boundaries and stating that he finds the woman’s crossing of them unacceptable.”

Er, except usually this unacceptable crossing of boundaries by a woman consists of merely existing in his general direction – instead of, you know, actually doing anything. Creeping, on the other hand, requires action on the part of the creep. Your gender reversal fails.

You are grasping at straws, NWO, and it’s kind of pathetic.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

That’s the most pathetic attempt at regendering I’ve ever seen.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

You don’t “Regender” something by acting like completely different concepts are “the male/female equivalents.” That’s just making up your own crap.

I have no problem with creepy women being called out on it. But “c*nt” is not the female “creepy.” “Creepy” is the female “creepy.”

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

NWO — wtf does cunt have to do with boundaries? Even anti-manboobz manages to get that creep and boundaries are related concepts.

“From coffee drinking men who dare to ask a woman for her precious company?…”

More like “from men who probably aren’t interested in 4am coffee in their hotel room but are actually interested in sex, and can’t be arsed to not make propositions in close quarters” — you do like, leave your home right? You get that most people don’t speak much in elevators besides “floor # please”?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Anyone think if she had accepted, and he was a rapist, NWO would do anything besides blame her for going back to his room? NWO seems big on the “what did she expect?” thing.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Well, Slavey thinks that little girls who wear swimsuits to the beach are crossing his boundaries by not having sex with him, so from his unique perspective his regendering would seem more logical. At some point he has to learn the difference between “me” and “men”, though.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

“At some point he has to learn the difference between “me” and “men”, though.”

It would be nice if all MRAs figured this one out.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

Of course NWO thinks it perfectly acceptable to call women cunts. I’m not surprised.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

This ties in nicely with the other thread! NWOs entire schtick is that women are violating men’s boundaries by existing in public and not having sex with the men whenever the men want it, and that this is something that the women do on purpose and derive sexual satisfaction from. It’s totally demented, obviously, but I guess at least he’s consistent.