So the fellas over on the Men’s Rights Subreddit were having a little discussion the other day about the c-word, and wondering just why so many ladies get so offended by that word. I mean, it’s just a word. (Not like “creep” which is the worst possible thing anyone could possibly call someone else, and a clear abuse of their human rights.)
Funcuz, for his part, blamed Oprah for the unpopularity of the c-word among women:
Hardwarequestions, in a rather circular manner, blamed the offensiveness of the word “cunt” on women, for being offended in the first place:
The only one who seemed to think the insult was genuinely a big deal was expletive-deleted, who rather likes it that way:
Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!
“Dick” is also still a fairly common short form of “Richard”, and “prick” has many non-penis related uses as well. Unlike the c-word.
I try not to use “dicking around” when I mean “ineffectually messing up or interfering with” something, as it is a gendered insult. Funny though, in several accidental usages, I’ve never seen the person I’m speaking to even blink at its use. It’s just not as insulting to gender something male, even dicking around.
I’m with Holly on this. I have no interest in reclaiming “cunt”. In this case I don’t think attempting to do so is reclaiming at all – it’s capitulating to pressure not to be that woman, the one who isn’t “fun”, the one who isn’t tough enough to hack it. Fuck that. It’s a word whose only purpose is to say ” you are woman, and that makes you a thing rather than a person”. Why would we want to reclaim that?
Also, I’m a Brit, and the idea that we all casually throw that word around is nonsense. It’s regional to a large extent, and in some regions it is common, but it’s not that the meaning of the word is any different, it’s just that in those regions swearing is kind of rampant in general, and even there it’s not a word that you’d use in front of your granny unless you want everyone to think you were raised by wolves. The fact that even the men who use it all the time don’t generally use it in front of female family members just illustrates how offensive it is, even in the UK.
(Men calling each other that when no women are around is definitely a thing in the UK, and not something I’m willing to sign off on because it still reinforces the vagina = bad, disgusting, weak idea. But it’s definitely many magnitudes less offensive than men saying it to women, and if you’ve seen the kind of usage I’m talking about you’d notice that the tone in which men use that word towards each other versus how they use it towards women is very different – it’s much more malicious when aimed at a woman.)
Weighing in on “reclaiming” the c-word. I just don’t think that it works to reclaim as something you call a person (at least in the US). I feel like reclaiming bitch can work because it has connotations of “outspoken woman” and a lot of feminists can be like “Yeah, I am. So what?” Cu*t is just a really nasty insult.
On the other hand, I don’t mind it so much when used (a) in erotic scenes (b) used to describe female genitalia, mostly because it kind of harmonizes with cock. But I release that is definitely YMMV.
Men Rising sounds… familiar. Maybe that’s just because these clowns never come with original A game material.
Don’t expect to never hear men call women foul names if men can’t expect to never hear women call men foul names. Also you can’t dictate what level of hurt certain words have towards men/women. As Cassandra points out, a man calling another man c*nt is meaningless, but a man calling a woman c*nt is particularly hurtful.
A while back, on the laughable elevatorgate thread the poor lassie called a man creep/creepy. A woman calliing another woman creep/creepy means nothing, but a woman calling a man creep/creepy conjures images of stalker/rapist. Everyone of you claimed creep/creepy wasn’t bad at all. Being a woman, it carries no inherent insult. For a man it does carry an inherent insult when said by a woman. Ya’ll defended that little girl’s right to call that guy creep/creepy. Ya dictated it wasn’t bad at all. Pretty convenient.
“MRAs, such as myself, regard “dick” as the more offensive term, for various cultural reasons.”
Like being self absorbed narcissists with a persecution complex?
Is “cultural reasons” code for “because I said so?”
I seriously doubt that you even believe what you’re saying. Or maybe I just can’t comprehend the fact that a seemingly functional individual such as yourself is so divorced from reality. Would you argue that “honky” is worse than “nigger” for cultural
reasons too?
You MRAs really just make yourselves look ridiculous at best; mentally disturbed psychopaths at worst. And you think you’re going to get what you want? A fart will stick around longer than you guys.
And again the MRM wins ALL THE PROJECTION —
You’re right about that laughing kid, he is a total “cnut”.
I think “various cultural reasons” is code for “I’m trying to sound smart so you’ll take me seriously and believe that I’m right even though I’m completely incapable of presenting a factual and logical argument.”
Women! They all love Oprah! Man those MRAs sure do make the most biting observations about peple.
uh, it doesn’t, duder. that’s a thing you guys keep saying because you desperately want it to be true cause it makes your crusade against women seem less sad, but it’s still just a thing you keep saying over and over, and nobody is fooled by it, kiddo.
being a whiny little babyman who invents reasons to believe he’s oppressed isn’t a ‘cultural reason’. it’s just a dumb thing you made up to feel special.
I find ‘cunt’ a very satisfying insult sonically (the hard k sound! the monosyllabic bark!) but would never use it because, at least for me, it is far too deeply connected to misogyny to extricate properly.
Has there ever been a time when someone says “Let`s face facts” or “That`s a fact” when stating an actual fact?
It’s interesting to hear you all say that “cunt” in the US is usually used against women, and attacks them just for being women. Where I live, that’s not how it’s used at all. In fact it’s almost always used to talk about men. A guy who does something particularly admirable or who is generally likeable will often be referred to as a “good cunt”; the only times I’ve heard people talk about women in the same way, they’ve altered the expression to “good bitch”. The word is still considered the “worst” swearword, but when used as a sincere insult it’s generally applied to people who are really horrible – it’s like “asshole” only worse. My friends use the word all the time and it doesn’t offend me, but it sounds like overseas it carries more gendered connotations and I guess in that context I would find it more offensive.
When I was in high school, being a dick sometimes meant being annoying and sometimes meant being mean. Now, it seems primarily to be interchangeable with “asshole,” though there are subtle differences in connotation, with “dick” connoting a more petty sort of unpleasantness (c.f., Jon Stewart calling Tucker Carlson a dick).
Still, when I call someone a “dick,” I’m not insulting him for being a male–I’m insulting him for being a dick.
Some nuke. They’ll never be able to turn a phrase around a c-bomb like the late great Kathy Acker.
But she was deconstructing a lot of that type of thing, as well as language. Speaking of which, from what I understand, the etymological origins of this also are the same as the German “kunst” (associated with art/creativity) and earlier “kenaz” both denoting the vagina and also wider ideas of driving creative force. I hear there’s a whole book about this, but I haven’t read it yet.
Threads along these lines always bring to mind the scene from Boys on the Side – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112571/quotes?qt=qt0236690
Elaine: [kindly] It’s a cunt, dear
I’d say that made me more comfortable with the word, as the thought behind it is just as offensive if “hoo hoo” is used, but I just don’t remember it being that popular as an insult much before that time frame. Pussy/bitch/whore, sure, but cunt was rare outside of porn dialogue, while definitely known to refer to some female part, not a whole person. I was confused enough at one point to poll male friends in college as to whether it referred to the external/internal/both lady parts. No clear consensus, back in the day. Odd, but probably not the least bit meaningful.
I vaguely recall that there’s a scene in Heathers that was originally supposed to involve the use of “cunt” as an insult, and it was watered down to “bitch.” (I cannot substantiate this because I can’t think of a way to Google it without getting scary results.) Considering what else was in that movie, I think that speaks to the impact of that particular word.
I have never used it to describe a person. It’s never crossed my mind as something to apply to a person. But when it comes to talking about body parts in non-clinical ways, I find it much more euphonious than “pussy.” In fact, I really hate “pussy.” I also prefer “cock” to “dick”. I don’t consider that “reclaiming” the word, though.
Another (regional) Brit perspective: yeah, it’s the ‘worst’ swear word and more commonly used by men (as swearing = unladylike, although where I live it’s not unheard of for women to use it. I use it myself on occasion, for the shock value) but it’s not gendered in its implications in the same way these guys use it, and is more often directed at men or the universe at large. 🙂
The same goes for twat, which is more common than cunt. ‘Twat’ as an adjective means ‘hit’, as in ‘I got twatted on the head with a big stick’.
burgundy — Looks like it was changed to fuck. The script has one use of cunt, and it looks like it was changed to fuck.
That’s saying something if fuck is considered less offensive.
As a VERB. Back to primary school with me.
On the level of insult associated with dick vs c*nt:
Call your Dad a dick. Then call your Mum a c*nt. See what happens.
I rest my case.
Argenti Aertheri – that was it! Thanks. And yeah, that’s pretty significant.
No. It espouses the notion that women matter as much as men do.
That’s some ingenious reasoning, right there.
That’s because MRAs espouse a dogma of male supremacy and thus find male slurs more offensive than female slurs.
Wait…you’re a woman? Or did you mean, “For women, it carries no inherent insult”? Say what you mean and mean what you say.
In either case, you’re wrong. What was that about not dictating the level of hurt that certain words have on men and women? Y-yeah. That. “Creep” is defined as “an unpleasant or obnoxious person.” Notice how it says “person” and not “man.” As a socially awkward woman, I constantly worry whether people think I’m creepy.
I’m upvoting this with imaginary upvote arrows.