So the fellas over on the Men’s Rights Subreddit were having a little discussion the other day about the c-word, and wondering just why so many ladies get so offended by that word. I mean, it’s just a word. (Not like “creep” which is the worst possible thing anyone could possibly call someone else, and a clear abuse of their human rights.)
Funcuz, for his part, blamed Oprah for the unpopularity of the c-word among women:
Hardwarequestions, in a rather circular manner, blamed the offensiveness of the word “cunt” on women, for being offended in the first place:
The only one who seemed to think the insult was genuinely a big deal was expletive-deleted, who rather likes it that way:
Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!
@Dvärghundspossen
In English, dick is a mild insult while cunt is very aggressive (probably because a dick is desirable to have, and a cunt is implicitly inferior). To call someone a “dick” just mean they’re a jerk– rude and insensitive. A cunt is a woman who doesn’t know her place, and reduces her to her generative organs in a way that “dick” doesn’t for a man. “Cunt”, like “whore” and “slut”, is an extremely gendered insult and it’s uncommon to see it wielded against non-female-identified individuals, which feeds into the “reducing her to her genitals” thing.
Thanks Linds. You learn something new everyday.
Personally, I find it counterproductive to allow any word to hold enough power over me that that it makes it painfully obvious to my enemies that it is an effective weapon to use against me. I’d rather not offer them any ammunition.
Dvarghundspossen (sorry, can’t get the umlauts):
“Dick” isn’t as offensive as “cunt.” Dick actually comes off as a bit more of a middling insult. I’ve even called my fiance a dick, jokingly. “Cunt,” however, not so much. I’d be really upset if my fiance called me a cunt and thought it was a good joke.
Cunt is often also used in silencing women or people who stick up for women’s rights. Dick means is used more to describe someone who is being a jerk.
Overall, tone-wise cunt comes off as being a lot more offensive than “dick” or “prick” (which I’ve heard used interchangeably).
Thank you also Linds. I should have known someone would be quicker on the draw than me. 😀
The creeps think that women are too sensitive about c*nt? Well, as they say over at PZ Myers’ blog, they can take a dead porcupine and fuck themselves with it.
For those who want to argue c*nt and d*ick are the same thing, have some text from the Oxford English Dictionary. There is ONE entry for c*unt, and multiple meanings for d*ick.
OED text edited to avoid moderation:
Pronunciation: /kʌnt/
Etymology: Middle English c*nte, count(e), corresponding to Old Norse kunta (Norwegian, Swedish dialect kunta, Danish dialect kunte), Old Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch kunte < Germanic *kuntōn weak feminine; ulterior relations uncertain.(Show Less)
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1. The female external genital organs. Cf. quaint n.1
Its currency is restricted in the manner of other taboo-words: see the small-type note s.v. fuck v.
[c1230 in Ekwall Street-Names of City of London (1954) 165 Gropec*ntelane.]
a1325 Prov. Hendyng (Camb. Gg. i. 1) st. 42 Yeue þi c*nte to cunnig and craue affetir wedding.
c1400 Lanfranc's Cirurg. 172/12 In wymmen þe necke of þe bladdre is schort, & is maad fast to the c*nte.
c1425 Castle of Perseverance (1904) 1193 Mankynde, my leue lemman, I my c*nte þou schalt crepe.
1552 D. Lindsay Satyre Procl. 144 First lat me lok thy c*nt, Syne lat me keip the key.
a1585 Ld. Polwart Flyting with Montgomerie (1910) 817 Kis þe c*nt of ane kow.
c1650 in J. W. Hales & F. J. Furnivall Bishop Percy's Folio MS: Loose & Humorous Songs (1867) 99 Vp start the Crabfish, & catcht her by the C*nt.
1743 H. Walpole Little Peggy in Corr. (1961) XXX. 309 Distended c*nts with alum shall be braced.
a1796 R. Burns Merry Muses (1911) 66 For ilka hair upon her c—t, Was worth a royal ransom.
c1890 My Secret Life VII. 161, I sicken with desire, pine for unseen, unknown c*nts.
1934 H. Miller Tropic of Cancer 15 O Tania, where now is that warm c*nt of yours?
1956 S. Beckett Malone Dies 24 His young wife had abandoned all hope of bringing him to heel, by means of her c*nt, that trump card of young wives.
transf. and fig.
1680 Earl of Rochester et al. Poems 28 Her Hand, her Foot, her very look's a C*nt.
1922 J. Joyce Ulysses ii. 59 The grey sunken c*nt of the world.
1928 D. H. Lawrence Lady Chatterley's Lover xvi. 296 If your sister there comes ter me for a bit o' c*nt an' tenderness, she knows what she's after.
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2. Applied to a person, esp. a woman, as a term of vulgar abuse.
1929 F. Manning Middle Parts of Fortune I. viii. 159 What's the c*nt want to come down 'ere buggering us about for, 'aven't we done enough bloody work in th' week?
1932 ‘G. Orwell’ Coll. Ess. (1968) I. 88 Tell him he's a c*nt from me.
1934 H. Miller Tropic of Cancer 28 Two c*nts sail in—Americans.
1956 S. Beckett Malone Dies 99 They think they can confuse me… Proper c*nts whoever they are.
1965 V. Henriques Face I Had 69 ‘What d'you think you're doing, you silly c*nt?’ the driver shouts at her.
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1. Dick, n.1 1553
…A familiar pet-form of the common Christian name Richard. Hence generically (like Jack) = fellow, lad, man, especially with alliterating adjectives, as desperate, dainty,…
2. dick, n.2 1847-78
…A leather apron….
3. dick, n.3 view full entry 1736
…A ditch….
4. dick, n.4 1860
…Abbreviation of dictionary; hence, ‘Fine language, long words’ (Slang Dict.)….
5. dick, n.5 1861
…In phr. to take one's dick = to take one's declaration….
6. dick, n.6 1908
…A detective; a policeman….
7. dick, v. 1948
…With around, about….
3. Comb.
1680 in Rochester's Poems Several Occasions (1950) 36 Fam'd through the World, for the C–nt-mending Trade.
1868 tr. Martial Index Expurgatorius 32 A satire on Baeticus, who was a priest of Cybele, and a c*nt-sucker.
1923 J. Manchon Le Slang 97 C*nt-hat,..chapeau de feutre.
1965 F. Sargeson Mem. Peon , ii. 28 We were all helplessly and hopelessly c…struck, a vulgar but forcibly accurate expression.
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Draft additions September 2008
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c*nt-struck adj. coarse slang infatuated, esp. sexually, with a woman or women in general (cf. love-struck adj.).
1876 Romance of Lust IV. 87 He..became in fact c*nt-struck upon her.
1879 Harlequin Prince Cherrytop 29 Changed from the gorgeous king to a buffoon, Be weak-kneed, c*nt-struck, fucked-out Pantaloon.
1975 S. Bellow Humboldt's Gift 204 Were we to end our lives as c*nt-struck doddering wooers left over from a Goldoni farce?
2003 London Rev. Bks. 21 Aug. 6/2 On the one hand, I was too inhibited; on the other, I was already terminally c*nt-struck.
Gotta love how one-sided MRAs are. They gnash their teeth when guys are called creeps, which isn’t even a male-specific insult, yet they expect women to giggle and say “Oh, you!” when they’re called cunts. Once again, bad things are bad only when they happen to them.
I’d say the male equivalent is “prick,” but even that’s not as vitriolic as “cunt.”
Actually, there aren’t very many sexist insults meant just for males, at least not here in the United States. Even insults like “motherfucker” and “cocksucker” have misogynistic connotations.
Not to mention that femaleness itself is often used to insult men (“woman,” “girly,” “pussy,” etc).
I actually love the word, I just don’t like the reason misogynists use it.
But that guy talking about that “awesome insult.” Fool, please. Come up with something original and then I’ll be impressed. Reusing someone else’s insult just makes you look sad.
And they obv don’t have a problem using the word fag if we’ve learned anything from yesterday’s post. Clearly what we can take away from these lessons are that any word specifically created and implemented to oppress and dehumanize anyone who isn’t white, straight, cis, abled, and male, is awesome and not hateful at all because ummm freedom of speech and pc police and reasons. But words that hurt everyone when used against them such as “creep” are NOT COOL U GUIZ! STAAAHP RAAAHNNN! etc
awww, I finally fudged my first blockquote!
It was offensive before Oprah. And like the n-word and the f-word, I wish we never had to hear it again.
I’ve always hated the whole notion of “taking back the word”. A former friend of mine had this constant need to prove how she was such a “cool chick” (i.e. not like those other women who are so uptight). She always peppered her speech with swear words and general crudeness when we were around our male friends. One night at a party, she was up to her normal trick of loudly swearing up a storm, and she started using the word c*** quite liberally. I, along with other women in the room, started to become quite uncomfortable and offended. As her friend, I went up to her to let her know that she was upsetting quite a few people in the room, including myself, and I asked her to stop. Her response? “It’s just a word, you guys need to stop being so sensitive”. I repeated that we were offended by her use of the word. She said, “Women need to take back the word c***! It’s only offensive if you let it offend you”. I told her that was well and good, but she was still hurting my feelings. She responded by staring me dead in the face, repeating the word c*** until I walked away, and then laughing about how silly and sensitive I was. Needless to say, I was not her friend after that.
I have no problem with taking back words– there are definitely reasons to do so (look at Bitch Magazine, for example), but it needs to be done with full understanding of the ramifications of using a loaded word, and the fact that no matter how “reclaimed” it is, there’s the possibility of it upsetting people. Even something like “queer”, which has gotten to the point where most people can use it in a non-pejorative way, I know older gay and lesbian people who are extremely uncomfortable because of how it can be used as a weapon.
Ruby: Changed your mind on rape yet? No?
Then kindly stop pretending you are better than the sort of people who say Cu*t.
You aren’t.
BTW… that was shaming language, because you ought to be ashamed.
I mean, i’m glad they don’t use it, but it’s really fucked up and confusing. Especially given the stance of MRAs, and misogynists in general, on the word. And the reputation us British have for loving the word.
I spent some time playing with British soldiers. I heard twat more than I heard cu*t. It was interesting that the one time (once, in three weeks of being in the field with them) I heard it it was both notable (for being all of once, and a word that just doesn’t show up in the US Army), and prosaic. It didn’t seem possesed of the hateful venom it has in The States.
But that’s a single use, so I can’t speak to the way it was used at large.
Dvärghundspossen: The two words are not at all parallel. Cu*t is, in The US, at least, pure venom. Dick has nuance. It can be used in good humor, in a gently critical/corrective way, and in anger.
You can use it with people whom you don’t know well.
The only people I can imagine using it with, are lovers who like the word; and then only in specific contexts.
The only things I can see as anything close to equivalent are phrases, and describe men as passive, and weak: “You cock-slobbering faggoty fuckhole” is about as close as I can come to making the bemeaning, degrading, intent behind cu*t into an insult an MRA would feel had the same sting.
Apart from, “creepy”, of course; can’t forget the power of the “C” word on men.
Oops. I was too crude for the Spam-filter to let me speak to Dvärghundspossen’s question on the meaning of cu*t vs. dick.
@Rachel, obviously that person is just trying to sound cool which isn’t something I support. It’s the whole, “Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins” type of thing. Being purposely hurtful like that is an abuse of freedom of speech if you ask me. Will I take away her right to say the word? No. But I will consider her an asshole for blatantly disregarding your feelings in an attempt to look like a badass.
I mean, I have the mouth of a sailor when around my friends but I won’t utter a single swear around my parents or the parents of my friends. It’s important to know and be sensitive to your audience.
Dick isn’t equivalent as an insult because there is a connotation of strength that goes along with it. A person tends to be called a “dick” when he exhibits traits that are traditionally understood to be masculine — aggressiveness being one of those traits. But words like “cunt” and “pussy” get used to connote weakness and filth. Male body parts are viewed as strong, female body parts are viewed as gross. It’s the context in which these words are used that mean everything, and why women react so harshly to the word. My close friends and I will jokingly call each other “bitches” and laugh, but the word takes on a whole different context and a very different emotional impact when it’s hurled at me by a stranger in the street.
“Cunt” is worse than “dick”? I don’t think so- not in reality.
Let’s face uncomfortable facts. Feminism espouses a dogma of female primacy; therefore, it stands to reason that feminists such as this motley crowd would find female slurs more offensive than male slurs. But that’s only your own perception; others may have a different opinion.
It’s circular reasoning- you find “cunt” more offensive than “dick” because it’s “more vitriolic” because you find it more offensive that “dick”, because you’re misandrists, and so “cunt” is more offensive than “dick”.
MRAs, such as myself, regard “dick” as the more offensive term, for various cultural reasons.
i know this is deck chairs/titanic, but i can’t get over how fucking lame his ultimate insult is
And, one of the weirdest takes on the “c word” http://www.westword.com/2004-12-30/news/hall-of-shame/ “Instead, just as the regents rallied to her [then-president Betsy Hoffman] defense, the prez promised the public that the boys’ club would remain intact. And in a deposition she soon gave in the federal case, she put her literary education to bizarre use by dropping Chaucer and suggesting that the word “cunt” is sometimes used as a term of endearment. Go, CU!”