So Mr. Paul Elam was apparently so offended by this video from Jay Smooth defending Anita Sarkeesian and her Tropes Vs Women video project against its many misogynistic detractors that he sat down and wrote out a carefully reasoned rebuttal of all of Mr. Smooth’s points.
Nah, I’m kidding. He wrote a snide couple of paragraphs calling Smooth a “leftist scumbucket,” and a “chickenshit feminist quisling,” and invited his readers to jump in with their own dopey insults. And they did. Some highlights (that is, lowlights):
I showed Paul’s comment to an MRA friend, and he said, “dude, you have to stop talking to me. I don’t exist! I’m no more real than Paul Elam’s ‘gay friend.'”
Andybob added this to the debate:
Yes, that’s right, he’s saying Smooth is being a “fag” in order to score with women. Clearly we have a brilliant mind at work here.
Several comments later, Iron John, a man apparently oblivious to irony, weighed in with this gem:
On Reddit, after someone pointed out the homophobia in the comments, Elam responded with “comment mine much?”
I’m pretty sure you don’t get to complain about “comment mining” for homophobia when 1) you’re the guy behind the site and 2) you’re one of the ones shouting “fag.”
Notice that Zorro’s original comment got an equal number of upvotes and downvotes. Then Elam jumped in to give the homophobia his seal of approval. After that, it was nothing but upvotes for those using or approving of the homophobic slur.
Calling a dude a “fag” on the internet: Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!
There’s even someone on that thread suggesting that Jay Smooth probably has trouble getting laid.
Aside from the part where that seems quite unlikely, I thought that was like the number 1 worst most evil and oppressive thing you could ever say about a man in MRAland? I thought it was shaming language and misandry and feminazism and all the worst things in the world to say that about people (or at least, about men?) But it’s being said, and not called out.
“How these folks can believe themselves to be in any position to complain about “shaming language” is well beyond me.”
In their backwards land, I think their issue is that they say something intended to shame, someone calls them out on their shaming language, and they decide that since they’re being shamed for their use of slurs, calling them out is itself shaming language and thus they win the internet.
Glossary troll has taught me whole new ways of twisting logic…
shadow I’ve heard some people say that it was because she was asking for too much money not that she was a woman. which aside from being bullshit seeing no one is jumping on some random dudes kickstarter for the same reason, it another level of internet entitlement of people being pissed that some women ask for money for her work..
Once again, MRAs prove they possess less self awareness than Carl from Llamas with Hats.
Excellent points from Jay Smooth. We need more men like him and David.
@Polliwog & fishes
Cheers, that makes sense. Or “sense”, considering what we’re dealing with
@ Argenti Aertheri:
It’s like when homophobes, racists, or any other sort of bigot whines about how people will call them out on their intolerance. Although the specific phrasing varies depending upon the situation, it typically all boils down to something like this:
“But if intolerance is such a bad thing, why are you being so intolerant of my intolerance? If you were truly tolerant, you would tolerate my intolerance. So it’s really the people who advocate tolerance who are the intolerant ones! And now I’m calling you out on you’re intolerance.”
If completely and totally missing the point was an Olympic Sport, the people who make these sorts of arguments would get medals.
“If completely and totally missing the point was an Olympic Sport, the people who make these sorts of arguments would get medals.”
…are we sure it isn’t for MRAs? They do seem to be masters at it in all possible contexts…
And yes, it’s exactly like that.
Funnily enough, Elam’s fine with linking to a pretty standard “Nice Guys” feminist article if it’s to (inaccurately) attack Jay Smooth.
On the plus side, according to ForsakenEagle in the comments, feminism is now a Mainstream Opinion!
These guys like to shout “shaming language!” at anything. I think many of them honestly believe they can win any argument as long as they come up with something to pretend to be offended about.
They all seem to have read from the same guide book on how to be really annoying and shitty debaters.
In absolutely no universe does Jay Smooth have to “beg” for pussy. I might be a man-hating Amazon dyke, but even I have a massive hetero crush on Mr. Smooth.
Jay Smooth also just isn’t the kind of person who would stoop to “begging” for sex because, unlike MRAs, he doesn’t see sexual conquest as the ultimate source of personal and social validation–I’m sure he doesn’t see sex as any kind of “conquest” at all. It’s so telling that “pussy begging” is even a concept that these guys earnestly believe in and accordingly project onto other men with whom they disagree. I think it was Cliff who pointed out that MRAs can only conceive of women as sex objects, not as people. As much as, by now, it feels like a cheap shot and an oversimplification to say that MRAs are creepy guys who can’t get laid and who channel their sexual frustration into violent, misogynistic rage, I really think that’s largely the case.
Hahahaha, this is great. Can you imagine the level of jealousy these losers must feel towards Jay? He’s smart, talented, has his own radio show, attractive, probably has good relationships with women in his personal life and good skills for interacting with women and people in general. He’s basically everything the MRAs aren’t. He even has more of the positive attributes attributed to masculinity, so he is even “manlier” than they are in the traditional sense. And so they call him a fag. And lifeless, which is even funnier considering how animated Jay is.
Polliwog, I think it’s just 1 and 2. They don’t seem to like female MRAs much either, even though they’re in agreement. It’s more of a barely seething tolerance. They seem to flip out whenever a woman expresses an opinion on anything.
Internet is for Men, not for women, or at least that used to be the attitude in the old days of usenet (and, yes, I am that old). Any female-type person who ventured into cyberspace was asking for a flaming, and got it. Women were not welcome online. Sarkeesian is not only a female-type person, not only dares to be on the Interwebz, but has the nerve to address female-type issues on it in an intelligent and dignified way. How dare she? So flames away, and also for any man-type person who hasn’t got a problem with it.
Amazing how little has changed since the early 90s. They’re still griping about women and the eeeeevuls of feminism in the same language, and focusing on the same old stuff. Boobery is eternal.
I have this feeling that the usual misogynist-arsehole way to think that is “Internet is for Normal People, not for women.”
(This point based on thinking, not immediate evidence; also rum.)
IIRC, on soc.men there was once a discussion about whether or not “females” (never referred to as women) were actually fully human.
MC I think that last comment was right on the money. Especially when you consider the latest fad of “if you market a product to women that isn’t already feminine as make up then it must feature : the color pink, happy children, be discussed in pointlessly euphemistic language( yogurt commericals anyone?), discussed in depth on entirely secondary merits (think the pill: I won’t be so raggy!) Or some percieved health benefit. Everything else is coded male or gender neutral. Thanks capitalism for deciding that half the human species is a “niche market”!
Oh, I think 1 and 2 alone are enough to piss off these asshats (hell, I think 1 alone is enough – witness the amount of rage they’re often able to summon up over both “women working” and “women depending on someone else for income,” or “women trying to look attractive to men” and “women not trying to look attractive to men,” and it becomes pretty obvious that “women existing” is more than enough to start the rage-fires burning), but those combined with 3 and 4 is what took this particular case into “we must completely deluge her with rape threats, because that’s totally how a legitimate social justice movement responds to things” territory.
Another MRA site packing it in. http://whatmenthinkofwomen.blogspot.com/2012/06/time-to-move-on.html
I’m not doubting whether “There are Default People and also women” is a common idea (I nearly put ‘is true’ there, not quite what I meant…), just whether it was actually relevant right here.
MC, if everything is coded Normal people equals male or hetero couple in RL, why would men suddenly think “oh wait this is a gender neutral space!” On the interwebz, unless all computers were painted pink or just about everyone working on anything computer oriented/ technologically related were women?
Another one bailing? I have a feeling that we can thank the SPLC for the recent mini-exodus of MRAs. Being called out as a hate group by the same people who work against the KKK has to have at least a few of them reconsidering things.
pillowinhell: Didn’t think of that, you’re right. Possibly thinking things through would be something I should remember to do.
Hmm…I dunno. The blogs I’ve seen that have closed down have cited moving on to new things as the reason. I actually like this reason better, because hopefully moving on to new or better things gets these guys out of the downward spiral they’re in. If they are happier in certain areas of their lives it may spill into their views on relationships and women and promote small but important and healthier viewpoints. I think that would be more sustainable in the long run than just ” oh my god I’ve been labeled as part of a hate group so I better stew silently or the gubmint will get me!”.
MC its one of those ideas that everyone is so over exposed to that its like background radiation in the universe. Really, unless you’re watching Stargate Universe how often do you really even think about background radiation at all?