So Mr. Paul Elam was apparently so offended by this video from Jay Smooth defending Anita Sarkeesian and her Tropes Vs Women video project against its many misogynistic detractors that he sat down and wrote out a carefully reasoned rebuttal of all of Mr. Smooth’s points.
Nah, I’m kidding. He wrote a snide couple of paragraphs calling Smooth a “leftist scumbucket,” and a “chickenshit feminist quisling,” and invited his readers to jump in with their own dopey insults. And they did. Some highlights (that is, lowlights):
I showed Paul’s comment to an MRA friend, and he said, “dude, you have to stop talking to me. I don’t exist! I’m no more real than Paul Elam’s ‘gay friend.'”
Andybob added this to the debate:
Yes, that’s right, he’s saying Smooth is being a “fag” in order to score with women. Clearly we have a brilliant mind at work here.
Several comments later, Iron John, a man apparently oblivious to irony, weighed in with this gem:
On Reddit, after someone pointed out the homophobia in the comments, Elam responded with “comment mine much?”
I’m pretty sure you don’t get to complain about “comment mining” for homophobia when 1) you’re the guy behind the site and 2) you’re one of the ones shouting “fag.”
Notice that Zorro’s original comment got an equal number of upvotes and downvotes. Then Elam jumped in to give the homophobia his seal of approval. After that, it was nothing but upvotes for those using or approving of the homophobic slur.
Calling a dude a “fag” on the internet: Men’s Rights Activism at its finest!
you know as a queer dude. I am so glad that MRA’s go out of their way to make men like me feel welcome.
It almost makes me feel bad for these pitiable men trying to use schoolyard language to swipe at someone who is leagues beyond them, not just politically, but just overall with regards to his career. It’s kind of like watching a rat chew on the leg of an elephant.
I like Jay Smooth’s radio show locally on WBAI, and other commentaries elsewhere. He seems to have a lot more going on with his life than any of these guys.
How does Anita being called a cunt repeatedly not fall under “harassment” and “bullying?” Oh. My bad. And I guess all the rape and whore/bitch references were meant to be constructive.
But a insightful look at female tropes in video games equals MRA’s hurt fee-fees? They’re such a delicate bunch. So sensitive. So fragile.
Way to gender police, AVfM. If Paul Elam has a non-imaginary gay friend, I will eat this computer.
I thought it was pretty honest. He said he was sorry, and he admitted that he just doesn’t have the ability to express himself any better.
More of a cry for help than an opinion, really.
MRAs shouldn’t be likened to rats though! (chewing elephants or not). Even my beautiful ratties have higher social consciousness than this! Just look!
http://jennydevildoll.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-blue-morningstar/
How these folks can believe themselves to be in any position to complain about “shaming language” is well beyond me.
Really?
Then why did he feel the need to bring it up if he was?
I bet. Expressing oneself thoughtfully requires effort. I bet this guy watched thirty seconds of the video and then hopped onto the comment thread to declare his tribal allegiance by attacking Jay Smooth.
this pretty much sums up everything about the idea of avfm as part of a movement
No, commenting mining is when you, say, go through someone’s entire Twitter until you find a tweet from back in November to make them look bad, to use a recent media example.
Pointing out that the person running a site is a-okay with homophobic slurs in the comments, however, is so the opposite of commenting mining that it’s like being struck in the head with a meteor.
Ha! These guys will never have anything on Jay Smooth. Seriously. Jay Smooth is an amazing, intelligent, beautiful man, with a lick-able brain.
“Shaming language” means things like “homophobe” or “misogynist”–you know, things that are meant to make you goddamn ashamed of yourself.
Maybe the MRA’s discomfort means they do feel a little smudge of shame?
Ugh, and these guys have been putting out posts trying to get more gay and trans men to sign up. With friends like these you’ll always know who the backstaber or bully in your life will be.
This is yet another example of MRAs assuming–nay, insisting–that all men secretly share their dismal opinion of women, it’s just that some men want to have sex with women more than they hate them, so they pretend not to hate them. MRAs, of course, hate women more than they want to have sex with them, which is pretty jaw-dropping when you consider that most of their “issues” really come down to men being able to have sex with women whenever they want, as much as they want, with no strings attached.
True. I used to own pet rats, and I can say without a doubt that their company was greatly preferable to MRAs.
Rats don’t whine about how disgusting and ugly I am when I’ve gone a week without shaving. Rats don’t call me a deceptive bitch when I decide to wear make-up. My rats liked being with people regardless of gender. My rats would fight amongst each other sometimes, but they were ultimately able to coexist peacefully with each other. They were far more friendly and sociable than many MRAs.
There are also more superficial differences between rats and MRAs. Some MRAs apparently think that women paint their nails to hide the fact that they’re dirty. Despite the fact that it takes more time to paint your nails than to clean them. This makes me suspect that MRAs don’t realize how easy it is to clean your nails. Which leads me to suspect that some MRAs have poor personal hygiene habits in general. Anyone who has ever had pet rats will know that rats groom themselves frequently. I suspect that rats have better personal hygiene than many MRAs.
wait, really pillowinhell? is there anyway I could get a link to one of these post I could use a good laugh.
Karalora – Considering MRAs think sex is the only reason to pretend to care about women, gay men who care about women must just break their brains.
(“Being gay makes you an honorary woman” seems like the usual rationalization.)
@Cliff:
Here’s doubting that they’re feeling any kind of shame. I think more that they’re co-opting the term in the same way they’ve co-opted “nuh-uh! MEN are oppressed!”
Stealing the language and redeploying it for their own use. Something similar happened when I was in college. The campus’s conservative student’s club had a “Coming out Day” the day before National Coming Out day. Because on a liberal campus, conservatives are abused an shamed for their political views.
What is it with the MRA insistence that every man who is a feminist (or even only somehow indicates that he doesn’t completely hate women) must be so only because he’s trying to get some? I thought (in MRAland) women only have sex with guys who are complete assholes.
Naira – That happened on my campus too. It was super shitty.
This reminds me of a similar sort of situation:
Apparently, even if you’re asking about something innocuous, like if you’re in the right line for beer, it’s just totes ok to start dishing out the homophobic slurs. Because, ya know, Real Men (TM) are supposed to be psychic and know exactly what’s going on at all times and admitting this to another man deflates your privilege faster and turns you into a big, screaming target for abuse. Didn’t you get the memo through Real Man Psychic Brain Mail (TM)? Oh, you didn’t? WHAT ARE YOU, SOME KIND OF _____?!
If male privilege and power is so fucking vulnerable and easily destroyed, then what is the use of literally destroying everyone else’s ability to have a safe and happy life just to keep it intact?
It’s like the family with the abusive person where everyone else has to walk on eggshells and constantly work around the abuser for…some reason?…instead of working together to figure out a BETTER WAY.
The human race’s relationship with privilege vectors is not working out. We need to figure out some sort of way to break out of the cycle of abuse, even if there are some people who think that they are benefitting from it.
Let’s have less of that, please.
“Trying to make ‘fetch’ happen with misandry” is the best line.
I still don’t get why this project seems to be dispensing wedgies to the MRM. It’s not even asking for any sanctions or anything, so WTF is their problem with it?
@Nanasha
Love that scene!
1. There is a woman.
2. She has opinions.
3. Some of those opinions are about things that misogynists also have opinions about.
3. People are acting like that’s acceptable and even paying her as if she were an actual person instead of just a vagina storage unit! OMG ARGLEBARGLE RAAAAGE.
That’s pretty much it, sadly.