I hope people reading the comic get that the problem is not men talking about their problems. It’s men demanding their problems be talked about any time women mention theirs.
It’s the difference between:
“I have hayfever.”
“Aw man, that sucks.”
And:
“My dog ran away, and I’m really worried that…”
“Never mind that! I have hayfever! We need to talk about hayfever! CAN’T YOU SEE MY NOSE IS RUNNY?”
The hayfever is not the inappropriate part here, is my point. It’s the context.
@Cliff — I think the false equivalence is clear in the first panel. Of course, that’s just me, and I’ve been reading SP! for years now and Willis gets a lot of mileage out of privileged white boys complaining about minor stuff as though it were the end of the world.
Mostly it’s about toys, though.
ostara321
12 years ago
The hayfever is not the inappropriate part here, is my point. It’s the context.
Yeah, the very people who do it are usually the same kind of people who don’t get that it’s the context that matters. It becomes “you don’t CARE ABOUT ME!!!!” when you try to say “um, hey, not about you, here.” The point isn’t that people don’t care that you have hayfever, it’s that this conversation isn’t about you or your hayfever.
Personally, my favorite classic “must make this about teh doods!” derail is the “but no really, there are dudes not getting laid!” argument used for just about anything and everything. I mean, I’m sorry, but someone’s inability to get laid sucks, but is not some grave, wide-scale, societal injustice.
I wish I could say I was shocked or surprised.. but I don’t think i’m capable of being shocked or surprised by the stupidity of people anymore.
(Sidenote, proper avatar gooo! Goodbye stupid random coloured shape thing).
thebionicmommy
12 years ago
The cartoon is an excellent example of how male privilege works. Because men are considered the default, if women talk about an issue that disproportionately affects women, it’s seen as unusual or offensive. The guys that derail women’s discussions do what they do because they want women to shut up and refocus all of their energy on catering to them and their needs.
I wish I could find it now, but I read an article a while back about poor women having a higher risk of death in childbirth. Anthony Zarat showed up in the comment section to say the article was misandric for not dealing with his favorite topic, ADHD medication for boys. The people that ran the website deleted his comment, but it still changed the entire discussion. Most of the rest of the comments ended up addressing his complaints and forgetting the topic of poor women not having enough access to good medical care in pregnancy and labor.
CassandraSays
12 years ago
I am genuinely surprised that nobody has showed up to make the “but it’s so hard for men to get laid!” argument in response to this post yet. It seems to be mandatory – I think there’s some sort of dudely Bat signal that gets sent out any time anyone is talking about anything that’s a problem for women. I love how they expect that argument shut down any conversation about any woman anywhere.
“That poor girl who got infected with the flesh eating bacteria is having a really hard time, I heard that she had to have her hands amputated.”
“Yeah, well, I’m 22 and I’ve never had sex. What about my feelings?”
hellkell
12 years ago
Cassandra, I’m sure Chris or Dave: The Love Shy (jesus christ) Assholes, will show up and whine about how haaaaard it is not getting laid, ask us for dating tips, and then top off that shit sundae with a question trying to get us to admit that feminists are horrid awful people.
Norseman
12 years ago
Feminists like David Fatrelle will make fun of men for talking about their problems in the company of their betters (women). And yet when the men go and make an ENTIRE movement about their problem, you make an entire blog mocking them. Hypocrites and misandrists is all you are, Fatrelle.
For a good 40 or 50 years before the internet explosion women had virtual carte blanche to ridicule men without so much as a peep of dissent. All problems were woman-centric and that’s all you ever heard. Poor, oppressed women and their eternal victimhood.
Take heart ladies, nothing has changed. The election is all about the war on women. Charities are a virtual woman’s only club and there’s more every year. The MSM adores you and genuflects with utmost reverence at every opportunity. Big Daddy will suck every last penny from the serfs to satisfy your slightest whim. The vote is your’s and the western world is exactly the way you’ve created it.
kirbywarp
12 years ago
@NWO:
The vote is your’s and the western world is exactly the way you’ve created it.
Amazing that half the population, which doesn’t actually all vote the same way, have somehow taken control over all of politics. A shame that men lost the right to vote, and haven’t voted since women obtained their right to vote, eh?
Charities are a virtual woman’s only club and there’s more every year.
And yet when the men go and make an ENTIRE movement about their problem, you make an entire blog mocking them
you didnt make a movement, you made a bunch of shouty little shitfit websites where you can pat each other on the back for recognizing how much girls have cooties while not actually doing anything in reality.
if you had an actual movement, that might not be mockworthy. what you have, on the other hand, totally is.
Magical Laura — “Is circumcision still routinely done on the majority of babies with penises in the US?” — just barely a majority, but yes. The last few years have seen rates just over 50%. It’s down dramatically from the 80-90+% rates of the 70s and 80s, but still a slight majority.
Norseman — you might’ve tried reading the FAQ before attempting to insult David based on his weight —
Q) I heard some MRAs call you fat. Are you fat?
A) Yes, I am fat. This may be the only true thing that MRAs have ever said about me.
NWO — as usual, you are terrible at math, and history, assuming “the internet explosion” was the late 90s, and subtracting 40 years, gets us the late 1950s, yeah the 50s were just all about women’s problems, and I’m sure another decade before that, ie the end of WWII, was all about women. If I’m less generous with “the internet explosion”, the internet was standardized in 1982 — 40 years before that was 1942, the middle of WWII, 50 years before was 1932, the goddamned great depression. Being you, I’m sure you can find a way to claim the great depression and WWII were just all about women, but in reality, neither was.
hellkell
12 years ago
Argenti, don’t send him to the FAQ, we’ll have another 1,000 post ignorance festival.
Feminists like David Fatrelle will make fun of men for talking about their problems in the company of their betters (women).
This is the Internet. You can create your own spaces for discussion for free with about twenty minutes work. There’s no excuse for acting like feminist forums are the only places you can possibly talk.
And yet when the men go and make an ENTIRE movement about their problem, you make an entire blog mocking them.
That’s because you’ve defined “your problem” as women, or, if you’re a “moderate MRA,” only women who are outspoken about their rights.
When you’re pro-man but not anti-woman, you don’t end up on this blog.
(Also? Ending up on this blog is not the end of the world. You can still have your discussion, even if someone somewhere is mocking it. MRA blogs don’t blip out of existence just because David mocks them.)
kirbywarp
12 years ago
@Cliff:
There’s no excuse for acting like feminist forums are the only places you can possibly talk.
Somewhat of a tangent, but I think I finally realized why some people are so intent on making feminist spaces about men. Because feminism, as a movement, has been successful. They’re too lazy to start their own movement, and here is one that is already getting shit done! They’ve spent enough time on their issues, now it’s time to focuse on me!
Trying to take over women’s spaces implies they understand that women’s issues are being heard and being acted upon. And they want to piggy-back on top of that success.
MRA blogs don’t blip out of existence just because David mocks them.)
Actually, they’re reduced to a pair of comical, blinking cartoon eyes, and then they have wend their way through the series of tubes back to Reddit for a new body. Only then can they patrol the Intarwebz for conversations that aren’t all about them, at least until David chomps down on the power pill of noticing their bullshit and my god this is a really tortured Pac-Man metaphor, isn’t it?
“Actually, they’re reduced to a pair of comical, blinking cartoon eyes, and then they have wend their way through the series of tubes back to Reddit for a new body.”
Please tell me you remember the name of that game, because I’d love to play it again. Thank you!
hellkell — but it’s the FAQ! Shouldn’t that be required reading? (Not saying you’re wrong, just noting the weirdness of telling him not to read the FAQ…most places it’s “did you read the FAQ first?”)
And they want to piggy-back on top of that success.
Yeah, that’s MRA in a nutshell. They recently funded a kickstarter for a documentary about a false rape accusation victim. This might be the first time they accomplished something without resorting to hate and harassment, and do you know what motivated them?
The horrible trauma of Feminist Frequency raising 150K over kickstarter. They gnashed their teeth over that for a week while mulling over ways to “fight back” (their words, not mine). MRAs are not self-starters.
Fembot
12 years ago
@Norseman
“Feminists like David Fatrelle will make fun of men for talking about their problems in the company of their betters (women).”
You have totally missed the point and discussion of this post. IT’S OKAY FOR MEN TO TALK ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS IN FRONT OF OR TO WOMEN.
What is not okay? Hijacking or derailing the conversation when women’s issues are being discussed. Is it really that hard for you to understand?
This site is not about misandry. If we hated men, I doubt we would have so many male commentors here. Please, tell me specifically what is misandry here? And if you misinterpret things that are not misandry and think they are, that doesn’t count, and it’s not our fault.
We Hunted The Mammoth
No! Let’s talk about me! Me and my problems! If we don’t talk about me and my problems right now, I’m going to hold my breath until I turn blue!
[/three-year-old]
I hope people reading the comic get that the problem is not men talking about their problems. It’s men demanding their problems be talked about any time women mention theirs.
It’s the difference between:
“I have hayfever.”
“Aw man, that sucks.”
And:
“My dog ran away, and I’m really worried that…”
“Never mind that! I have hayfever! We need to talk about hayfever! CAN’T YOU SEE MY NOSE IS RUNNY?”
The hayfever is not the inappropriate part here, is my point. It’s the context.
@Cliff — I think the false equivalence is clear in the first panel. Of course, that’s just me, and I’ve been reading SP! for years now and Willis gets a lot of mileage out of privileged white boys complaining about minor stuff as though it were the end of the world.
Mostly it’s about toys, though.
Yeah, the very people who do it are usually the same kind of people who don’t get that it’s the context that matters. It becomes “you don’t CARE ABOUT ME!!!!” when you try to say “um, hey, not about you, here.” The point isn’t that people don’t care that you have hayfever, it’s that this conversation isn’t about you or your hayfever.
Personally, my favorite classic “must make this about teh doods!” derail is the “but no really, there are dudes not getting laid!” argument used for just about anything and everything. I mean, I’m sorry, but someone’s inability to get laid sucks, but is not some grave, wide-scale, societal injustice.
Oh god, people are dismissing and diminishing this comic already.
David Willis: BEST GUY.
I wish I could say I was shocked or surprised.. but I don’t think i’m capable of being shocked or surprised by the stupidity of people anymore.
(Sidenote, proper avatar gooo! Goodbye stupid random coloured shape thing).
The cartoon is an excellent example of how male privilege works. Because men are considered the default, if women talk about an issue that disproportionately affects women, it’s seen as unusual or offensive. The guys that derail women’s discussions do what they do because they want women to shut up and refocus all of their energy on catering to them and their needs.
I wish I could find it now, but I read an article a while back about poor women having a higher risk of death in childbirth. Anthony Zarat showed up in the comment section to say the article was misandric for not dealing with his favorite topic, ADHD medication for boys. The people that ran the website deleted his comment, but it still changed the entire discussion. Most of the rest of the comments ended up addressing his complaints and forgetting the topic of poor women not having enough access to good medical care in pregnancy and labor.
I am genuinely surprised that nobody has showed up to make the “but it’s so hard for men to get laid!” argument in response to this post yet. It seems to be mandatory – I think there’s some sort of dudely Bat signal that gets sent out any time anyone is talking about anything that’s a problem for women. I love how they expect that argument shut down any conversation about any woman anywhere.
“That poor girl who got infected with the flesh eating bacteria is having a really hard time, I heard that she had to have her hands amputated.”
“Yeah, well, I’m 22 and I’ve never had sex. What about my feelings?”
Cassandra, I’m sure Chris or Dave: The Love Shy (jesus christ) Assholes, will show up and whine about how haaaaard it is not getting laid, ask us for dating tips, and then top off that shit sundae with a question trying to get us to admit that feminists are horrid awful people.
Feminists like David Fatrelle will make fun of men for talking about their problems in the company of their betters (women). And yet when the men go and make an ENTIRE movement about their problem, you make an entire blog mocking them. Hypocrites and misandrists is all you are, Fatrelle.
For a good 40 or 50 years before the internet explosion women had virtual carte blanche to ridicule men without so much as a peep of dissent. All problems were woman-centric and that’s all you ever heard. Poor, oppressed women and their eternal victimhood.
Take heart ladies, nothing has changed. The election is all about the war on women. Charities are a virtual woman’s only club and there’s more every year. The MSM adores you and genuflects with utmost reverence at every opportunity. Big Daddy will suck every last penny from the serfs to satisfy your slightest whim. The vote is your’s and the western world is exactly the way you’ve created it.
@NWO:
Amazing that half the population, which doesn’t actually all vote the same way, have somehow taken control over all of politics. A shame that men lost the right to vote, and haven’t voted since women obtained their right to vote, eh?
You’ve got to be shitting me.
…I love everything today.
(Well, ok, not EVERYTHING. Romney is still running for prez, but one can’t have ’em all, I guess)
you didnt make a movement, you made a bunch of shouty little shitfit websites where you can pat each other on the back for recognizing how much girls have cooties while not actually doing anything in reality.
if you had an actual movement, that might not be mockworthy. what you have, on the other hand, totally is.
The phrase “and yet” would make a good drinking game.
Magical Laura — “Is circumcision still routinely done on the majority of babies with penises in the US?” — just barely a majority, but yes. The last few years have seen rates just over 50%. It’s down dramatically from the 80-90+% rates of the 70s and 80s, but still a slight majority.
Norseman — you might’ve tried reading the FAQ before attempting to insult David based on his weight —
Q) I heard some MRAs call you fat. Are you fat?
A) Yes, I am fat. This may be the only true thing that MRAs have ever said about me.
NWO — as usual, you are terrible at math, and history, assuming “the internet explosion” was the late 90s, and subtracting 40 years, gets us the late 1950s, yeah the 50s were just all about women’s problems, and I’m sure another decade before that, ie the end of WWII, was all about women. If I’m less generous with “the internet explosion”, the internet was standardized in 1982 — 40 years before that was 1942, the middle of WWII, 50 years before was 1932, the goddamned great depression. Being you, I’m sure you can find a way to claim the great depression and WWII were just all about women, but in reality, neither was.
Argenti, don’t send him to the FAQ, we’ll have another 1,000 post ignorance festival.
This is the Internet. You can create your own spaces for discussion for free with about twenty minutes work. There’s no excuse for acting like feminist forums are the only places you can possibly talk.
That’s because you’ve defined “your problem” as women, or, if you’re a “moderate MRA,” only women who are outspoken about their rights.
When you’re pro-man but not anti-woman, you don’t end up on this blog.
(Also? Ending up on this blog is not the end of the world. You can still have your discussion, even if someone somewhere is mocking it. MRA blogs don’t blip out of existence just because David mocks them.)
@Cliff:
Somewhat of a tangent, but I think I finally realized why some people are so intent on making feminist spaces about men. Because feminism, as a movement, has been successful. They’re too lazy to start their own movement, and here is one that is already getting shit done! They’ve spent enough time on their issues, now it’s time to focuse on me!
Trying to take over women’s spaces implies they understand that women’s issues are being heard and being acted upon. And they want to piggy-back on top of that success.
Actually, they’re reduced to a pair of comical, blinking cartoon eyes, and then they have wend their way through the series of tubes back to Reddit for a new body. Only then can they patrol the Intarwebz for conversations that aren’t all about them, at least until David chomps down on the power pill of noticing their bullshit and my god this is a really tortured Pac-Man metaphor, isn’t it?
The vote is your’s and the western world is exactly the way you’ve created it.
Yeah, it’s pretty boss, isn’t it?
Okay, off to make braised artichoke hearts and a batch of refrigerator pickles. Talk later.
“Actually, they’re reduced to a pair of comical, blinking cartoon eyes, and then they have wend their way through the series of tubes back to Reddit for a new body.”
Please tell me you remember the name of that game, because I’d love to play it again. Thank you!
hellkell — but it’s the FAQ! Shouldn’t that be required reading? (Not saying you’re wrong, just noting the weirdness of telling him not to read the FAQ…most places it’s “did you read the FAQ first?”)
Yeah, that’s MRA in a nutshell. They recently funded a kickstarter for a documentary about a false rape accusation victim. This might be the first time they accomplished something without resorting to hate and harassment, and do you know what motivated them?
The horrible trauma of Feminist Frequency raising 150K over kickstarter. They gnashed their teeth over that for a week while mulling over ways to “fight back” (their words, not mine). MRAs are not self-starters.
@Norseman
“Feminists like David Fatrelle will make fun of men for talking about their problems in the company of their betters (women).”
You have totally missed the point and discussion of this post. IT’S OKAY FOR MEN TO TALK ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS IN FRONT OF OR TO WOMEN.
What is not okay? Hijacking or derailing the conversation when women’s issues are being discussed. Is it really that hard for you to understand?
This site is not about misandry. If we hated men, I doubt we would have so many male commentors here. Please, tell me specifically what is misandry here? And if you misinterpret things that are not misandry and think they are, that doesn’t count, and it’s not our fault.