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Big news in the fight against prison rape. MRAs oblivious.

There is good news, and bad news, and completely predictable news in the fight against prison rape. The good news: the Justice Department last week announced a major new initiative designed to fight against prison rape. The bad news: it’s being opposed by right-wing ideologues. As Think Progress explains:

This week, the Department of Justice published new standards addressing the epidemic of rape and sexual abuse in our nation’s prisons. The guidelines, which apply immediately to federal prisons and give financial incentives for states to comply, are a laudable, widely praised, and long overdue step in combating rape in the United States.

The American Action Forum, a Wall Street-funded group whose C(4) runs millions of dollars in attack ads against Democrats, responded by lambasting the move as too “costly” and “complicated.”

The Weekly Standard echoed AAF’s response, bemoaning the cost of preventing people from being raped in prison. The total expected cost is less than 1 percent of the overall cost of our prison system and ultimately “end up saving money — for example, by avoiding the medical costs of injuries suffered by rape victims,” according to the New York Times.

The completely predictable news? Men’s Rights Activists are completely oblivious to all this.

If the Men’s Rights movement were truly concerned with helping men, rather than playing “oppression Olympics” and complaining about feminists and women in general, they would be all over this issue. But I have seen nothing about this on any site in the manosphere, aside from one post on the Men’s Rights subreddit that drew all of six (mostly ignorant) comments. (Looking through one large thread on the subject of prison rape that was recently on r/mensrights’ front page, I found zero references to the Justice Department’s new initiative.)

What accounts for this obliviousness? It could be because MRAs tend to regard the Obama administration as a tool of our (imaginary) feminazi overlordsladies. Or because they would have to acknowledge that women are also raped in prison. But I think the real reason is that MRAs are so disconnected from real activists working in the real world to combat prison rape that they are completely unaware of any of this.

If you are interested in getting involved, or just learning more about the issue, I’d suggest checking out the website of the group Just Detention International, which campaigns against prison rape.

For more links, see this post of mine.

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hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

^went jail? fuck. went TO jail.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“So now I’m encouraging rape? No, I just think it’s funny when predators become prey.”

That you think it funny for anyone to be prey is the fucking problem.

Fatman — minor note, I think you meant the 8th amendment not the 6th. I suppose due process could maybe apply, but “that’s cruel and unusual punishment” seems a lot more obvious.

Sharculese
12 years ago

argenti

i’m sure he meant VIIIA, too, but the idea of a VIA argument (along the grounds of ‘imprisonment inflicted severe and preventable consequences on you that weren’t intended as part of your legally imposed sentence) is kind of interesting, considering that it is the stated position of a sitting justice that if it’s not explicitly a part of the punishment it doesn’t raise VIIIA concerns.

i mean, i dont think it would fly anywhere except 9CA, and only barely even there, but it’s interesting

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Sharculese — you’re right, IANAL and forget that precedent sets the 8th as only applying to penalties actually spelled out in words, the due process argument is certainly interesting though. (I think I just try to block that precedent because it’s so obviously leaving dangerous holes intentionally open.)

Sharculese
12 years ago

creative con law was the thing i excelled at in law school. which is unfortunate, because that’s not a real thing, and nothing i have to say in that regard is interesting except to a small group of extremely left wing lawyers.

nwoslave
12 years ago

@Cliff Pervocracy
“They’re not getting raped by Karma Itself. They’re getting raped by a predator who isn’t likely to see any consequences at all.”

They’re getting raped by a gay/bi predator. Which of course means a miniscule portion of society does the majority of raping. Also the majority of your worst mass murderers are gay/bi as are your rapists of women and pedophiles.

eristae
12 years ago

“They’re not getting raped by Karma Itself. They’re getting raped by a predator who isn’t likely to see any consequences at all. How is that funny?

And you do realize that prison rape is more likely to happen to people who appear physically vulnerable, unmasculine, and/or socially isolated, not to people who do the worst crimes?”

^So much this. It drives me absolutely up the wall that people who insist that they hate rapists would work so bloody hard to make sure that rapists get to keep raping. It’s like those fools who “don’t care” if the wrong person gets convicted because “s/he was a horrible person who deserved” while ignore the fact that this means that the person who actually committed the crime get away with it,

You can’t endorse rape without endorsing and supporting rapists. The fact that you are supporting powerful, strong, well-connected rapists does not change this fact.

McDuff
McDuff
12 years ago

They’re not getting raped by Karma Itself. They’re getting raped by a predator who isn’t likely to see any consequences at all. How is that funny?

That’s exactly the problem, the notion that prison rape is some from of “rough justice” dispensed to deserving targets like rapists and child molesters when infact they are the most likely to commit it. Andrew Vachss talks about it here (and with about 40 years experience in the US justice system, he should know.)

I remember a similar case over here in Australia in 2006, the rapist and serial killer Bevan von Einem was discovered to have been committing further rapes since his incarceration, and seemingly getting preferential treatment from the prison staff… You wonder why such a man didn’t need protective custody, if prison rape really followed the dynamic Ruby imagines?

To Ruby and people like her; even if you don’t object to prison rape on humanitarian grounds, surely you can see what a bad idea it is to let people go through such humiliation and then release them back into the society that allowed it to happen to them – because most of the rape victims will get out of prison sooner or later. Don’t you think they’ll be embittered and quite possibly want revenge?

McDuff
McDuff
12 years ago

I fail at quote tags.

Jessay (@jessay)
12 years ago

@kiki I’m sure there are a lot of different ways to interpret it. It’s a tough movie to support for some because it doesn’t hold back on showing hatred, or dance around the subject. I feel like it’s a good example of why people become convinced that hatred is ok when they have this powerful speaker telling them what sounds legit if you take his word for it, but only until you actually look into it do you see that it’s wrong. It’s why I feel like people who say hateful things need to be checked because all it takes sometimes is one charismatic speaker to convince someone of some ignorant idea that he kinda sorta had, but was unsure of.

The whole aspect of him getting to know the guy in prison was probably due to him never having tried to create a meaningful relationship with a POC. Part of being ok with oppressing other people, unless you’re just a completely horrible person with a cold heart, is dehumanizing that person. If you actually spend time with someone and find out that they aren’t what you think they are, your opinions can change.

I mean, it was kinda convenient but I dunno what else would convince a skinhead to change their minds.

Falconer
Falconer
12 years ago

They’re getting raped by a gay/bi predator. Which of course means a miniscule portion of society does the majority of raping. Also the majority of your worst mass murderers are gay/bi as are your rapists of women and pedophiles.

I’m sorry, General Slave, sir, but so many of the things you know ain’t necessarily so.

Go away, and take your ignorance with you.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

NWO, stop calling gay/bi men rapists when you don’t even disapprove of rape. It gets confusing.

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
12 years ago

As I said, specifically, it’s only funny when the victim had caused the same degree of misery to another. I’m not talking about people in jail for victimless crimes, or who were wrongly convicted. Yeah, I’d chuckle if Bernie Madoff got it. Or especially a child murderer. I really wish Karma did exist because for so many criminals, lifetime prison sentences can never be punishment enough for their heinous crimes.

Rutee Katreya
12 years ago

No, it isn’t funny even then, you sack of shit. It is rape, and torture. Fuck off, you miserable, hateful person.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

Guys, guys, we’ve got it all wrong! It’s only funny if SOME people get raped! She’s got STANDARDS!

Ithiliana
12 years ago

@Ruby: You are an absolute shithead who has clearly read none of the comments in response to your increasingly boneheaded attempts to show you are a good person who nonetheless supports prison rape (but ONLY in specific circumstances). Do you really think your imaginary rules apply?

You. Are. a. Troll.

STFU.

Snowy
Snowy
12 years ago

Wait, Bernie Madoff the ponzi scheme guy? 74 year old Bernie Madoff? Ruby, I don’t care how many pets you’ve rescued you are a horrible person.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

That thing about “lifetime isn’t enough” is pretty damn sickening, too? Do you know what most “criminals” are? They’re people with completely nonviolent drug offenses. Prisons aren’t just mass murderers and Bernie Madoff. What kind of cartoon world are you working from here.

…And fuck, Bernie Madoff never raped anyone. So you’re not even doing the “eye for an eye” thing here. You’re just saying “anyone I decide deserves it should be raped; it’s a judgement call I make.” That is literally the same logic EVERY rapist uses.

Wetherby
Wetherby
12 years ago

As I said, specifically, it’s only funny when the victim had caused the same degree of misery to another. I’m not talking about people in jail for victimless crimes, or who were wrongly convicted.

OK, suppose someone was raped in prison, and then files a successful appeal proving beyond any doubt that they were wrongly convicted. Is the rape hilarious up to that point, or what?

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

Ruby needs to go. She’s not going to get any better.

pecunium
12 years ago

Ruby: As I said, specifically, it’s only funny when the victim had caused the same degree of misery to another

As we said, specifically, it’s not funny; EVER.

As I said, specifically, people (like you) who think it is funny, are bad people. Those (like you) who spend time telling other people how funny it is that people get raped, are doing an evil thing.

Funny things are good things. People being raped is not a good thing. Ergo it can’t be funny.

You can’t even claim that it’s, “defensive humor” (like mine about the shit that happens in combat zones) because you admit that you don’t think it can ever happen to you.

You just like the idea of, “bad people” getting raped. Fuck you aren’t even pretending it’s a joke any more. You say it’s funny when people get raped.

That’s some evil shit right there. You are not a good person. You don’t even have the standards you pretended to have in the last comment, not when Bernie Madoff is compared to a murderer.

You, in a vile, and putrescent comment, make it plain; you want people whom you don’t like to suffer, you think a life cut off from society; a life deprived of liberty and dignity, can never be punishment enough for their heinous crimes.

I’ll bet you’ve never tried to imagine a year in prison, much less that you will die in one.

That you think that’s not more punishment than most crimes deserve, even murder, you are a heartless person. I’d weep for you, but why? It’s not as if you have the compassion to understand why the utter barrenness of your shriveled little heart, a pickled remant of all that is glorious in humanity; a wizened speck; orders of magnitude smaller than the miserable lumb which served the Grinch saddens me.

You are… words fail me. You are a sad reminder of what a lack of consideration and empathy lead to. Righteous, in the certainty that you are good, you would inflict pain and misery; no you’ve not got that much courage.

You will laugh as you connive at others doing it. Chuckling when someone amuses themselves by torturing another human being; for no other reason than you think that person to be bad.

That’s fucked up.

pecunium
12 years ago

NWO, of course, is failing to notice that we, the feminists, are against the rapes of men. He, the big “activist” for men’s rights, couldn’t care less about men being raped.

He also fails to notice (big surprise) that we are disagreeing with a woman, who supports abusing men.

Ruby, what’s it like to have NWO on your side?

Feels good, don’t it?

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

NWO’s “point”, besides that rape is funny sometimes (or maybe all the time), is that non-straight people are predators. Hasn’t that shit been debunked like 15 times over by now? Ignoring that, his reasoning has to be circular — a man raping a man is a gay act, thus he’s a gay man, thus more gay men abuse men than straight men do. Well duh NWO, you de facto excluded the possibility he was a straight man.

This is where the religious calls for celibacy get us — the inverse of “not gay if not acting gay” is “gay if acting gay”.

NWO, why don’t you and Ruby go have your pro-prison-rape party someplace else?

eristae
12 years ago

No, no, no, don’t you see? Ruby is saying that if a man rapes a 14 year old and then beats her to death, it’s hilarious if we allow and enable him to rape more people in prison! Like Bernie Madoff! Wouldn’t it be funny if a child rapist and killer got to rape Bernie Madoff? If we said, “Well, yes, we did send you to jail for rape, but we don’t actually want you to stop raping; we’re not so crass as to take that pleasure away from you! Rape away, good fellow, rape away.”?

. . . What? You don’t think that’s funny? Humor nazis! If you can’t take pleasure in a rapist having our blessing to rape, where will our funnies come from?

/sarcasm.

Sharculese
12 years ago

As I said, specifically, it’s only funny when the victim had caused the same degree of misery to another. I’m not talking about people in jail for victimless crimes, or who were wrongly convicted. Yeah, I’d chuckle if Bernie Madoff got it. Or especially a child murderer. I really wish Karma did exist because for so many criminals, lifetime prison sentences can never be punishment enough for their heinous crimes.

you keep saying this and you keep not getting that it doesnt make what you said any better. why did you think the fifth time you tried this excuse we were gonna be like ‘yeah, y’know what, that actually is reasonable’