So the other day some of the fellas on the Men’s Rights subreddit were having a strange little conversation. One Men’s Rights Redditor posted a clip from Bill Burr, in which the comedian complained that when his girlfriend hit him, he couldn’t hit her back without getting himself into a lot of trouble.
Instead of pointing his fellows to, I don’t know, resources for male victims of domestic abuse, the OP joked “This Is Why I Wish That I Was Sexually Attracted to Men.”
Yep, that’s right. He wants to date other men so, if the need arises, he can punch them.
Naturally, this being Reddit, other straight dudes jumped in with their own fantasies about how much easier life would be if they were gay. After all, jacKofKats pointed out, dating a guy would mean you could play video games with the very same person you have sex with, something obviously impossible in heterosexual relationships.
Oneiorosgrip agreed with the original poster that life would be much simpler and easier if guys could hit their mates:
Dolanduckeroo expressed envy towards his gay friends, who apparently lead lives of ease and endless zipless fucks, all the while being appreciated for who they truly are.
A few actual gay men wandered into the discussion, hoping to inject a bit of realism, pointing out (among other things) that gay men actually face something called “homophobia” — look it up if you haven’t heard of it — pretty much every day of their lives. Naturally, they got fewer upvotes than the “wish I were gay” fantasizers.
Did Slavey — who has yet to produce those cites — seriously ask how a man is to know if a woman is hitting him?
FFS NWO get back to us when merely asking someone out could get you killed (as can happen for non-straight and/or non-cis people, including men).
DSC: Extremely true. It’s VERY hard to leave an abuser, regardless of how bad or intense the violence gets and it’s not different based on gender. Men have just as hard of a time leaving abusive women. Physical abuse is often accompanied by emotional abuse, isolation and manipulation, which makes the victim especially vulnerable and, in many ways, powerless to stop the abuse or make any positive changes.
Hershele Ostropoler — no, he did one better, he said you can’t know if a woman will hit you until she does — Schrodinger’s abusive girlfriend! (maybe now he’ll get the concept?)
If anyone is in a relationship with someone who hits them (gender beside the point). They should know that they don’t deserve to be hit, and they should be able to seek out support so they can make decisions about how to improve their lives. That might include counselling, pressing charges, separating from the abusive partner, or all of the above (or more). Retaliation is not the right way to go ethically or legally unless of course you are finding yourself fighting for your life which should still end up with some kind of legal action for the actual solving of the problem.
Now yes, men probably have a harder time pressing charges against abusive partners, especially women partners. The solution is to advocate for better support for male abuse victims and cultural shifts away from violence and glorification of violent behavior.
There are hotlines available just for men who need support in dealing with an abusive partner/ situation a quick google search away. Raising awareness to the issue and to viable solutions (that can’t be summed up as “beat women more”) are areas that activist could do. I most often see feminists advocating for these.
@BigMomma, that TOM MARTIN line made me laugh even if the story didn’t quite back it up. So thanks!
@NWO, well you are kind of the authority on all things vile and hateful…
Like everything else that these guys complain about, when they say that some group of people has things “easier” than they do, what they really mean is that (in their opinion) that group has an easier time getting laid. It’s really that simple.
Shallow as a paddling pool, these people, and hilariously blind to the privilege that they have in every single other area of their lives.
Milkslave, until you stop openly advocating for the abuse, enslavement and rape of women for nothing more than the heinous crime of existing where you can see them, kindly shut the fuck up about domestic violence. No one actually believes you care.
NWO, you are a vile person and a shitty Christian. Don’t even bother getting indignant.
And really, did you just say that a man wouldn’t know if he’s being hit? Wow.
“Would the accepted/promoted demeaning of a segment of the population by not only the media, but the education system and politicans be considered discrimination? If so the answer is clear.
Has everyone of you here reveled in joy at the debasement of said segment? Has everyone here used the term white man, straight white men or straight white Christian cis man in some fashion in a negative way. Since all of you have, you’re all vile hateful people who are part of a vile, hate ideology. A religion built on a foundation of hatred.”
Oh please shut the fuck up all ready.
I absolutely revel in joy at the debasement of people like you; I make no apology for it and never will. You whine and complain because people say unkind things about you while you champion rape and violence. I think it’s far past time you were gone from here and I think David’s been far too charitable in allowing you to continue to spew your bile everywhere. I don’t think you should be rewarded with attention here for the behavior that’s likely the cause of you being so shunned in real life. I hold out no hope that you’re going to magically get better or see the error of your ways or any shit like that, I think you’re just going to get angrier and angrier until you either harm someone for real or (preferably) you finally choke to death on your own poison.
@NWO
“Has everyone here used the term white man, straight white men or straight white Christian cis man in some fashion in a negative way.”
No, I have not, and I don’t see others doing it either. Once again, we talk shit about MRAs, not all men. Most men are kind, good, lovable people. You’re not.
Why do I have to explain this over and over again?
@NWO
———-
“I have never hit my husband.”
We have only you word as proof.
And we know how little you value a woman’s word. And as to how you will know if she’s an abuser? You will know when she hits you. Then you leave.
As a straight, white, cis, male; with a fundamentally christian religious sensibility, NWO you are full of shit.
That is all.
if you want to have sex with the same person who you play video games with?
Date a girl who plays video games.
This is not rocket science.
No, you see, the problem is:
– women who play video games are all fat, ugly, or slutty. So you don’t want to date them.
– if you play pool with a woman, you might have to talk to her. Women have nothing of interest to say.
– So the problem is that the ONLY thing women are good for is to provide bodies to look at and vaginas to stick your penis in. Hence the wistful thinking: wouldn’t it be nice if you wanted to do something with your penis-sheath other than stick your penis in it? But everyone knows that the only thing a penis-sheath is good for is looking at and sticking your penis in. If only there were some way to combine the qualities of an actual human being and friend with the qualities of a penis sheath!
These guys hate women who talk.
They hate women who have educations.
They hate women who have careers.
They hate hearing about women things, like kids and emotions.
They hate women who talk about men things, like work and money, because that makes women disgusting dykes or gold diggers.
They hate everything about women except for the way some women make their penises hard and provide a place to stick their erections in.
I don’t even have a clever finish for that because it’s just so depressing, so I guess…
… The Aristocrats!
if you want to have sex with the same person who you play video games with?
Date a girl who plays video games.
This is not rocket science.
No, you see, the problem is:
– women who play video games are all fat, ugly, or slutty. So you don’t want to date them.
– if you play pool with a woman, you might have to talk to her. Women have nothing of interest to say.
– So the problem is that the ONLY thing women are good for is to provide bodies to look at and vaginas to stick your penis in. Hence the wistful thinking: wouldn’t it be nice if you wanted to do something with your penis-sheath other than stick your penis in it? But everyone knows that the only thing a penis-sheath is good for is looking at and sticking your penis in. If only there were some way to combine the qualities of an actual human being and friend with the qualities of a penis sheath!
These guys hate women who talk.
They hate women who have educations.
They hate women who have careers.
They hate hearing about women things, like kids and emotions.
They hate women who talk about men things, like work and money, because that makes women disgusting dykes or gold diggers.
They hate everything about women except for the way some women make their penises hard and provide a place to stick their erections in.
I don’t even have a clever finish for that because it’s just so depressing, so I guess…
… The Aristocrats!
Have they parsed out the part where if they are gay, by this logic, they can be hit too?
I mean, “I wish I was gay so that when I was abusive to my partner he could whomp the shit out of me” doesn’t really seem to be what they want, but I could be wrong.
But I thought they were gay the entire time? I mean, they all go to forums with other guys and complain about how bad women are, or possibly meet up with other guys with the same manly ideals. So clearly they have to be gay.
/sarcasm
If someone hits you, they’re a bully, plain and simple.
And the whole “evidence” thing is one of the main reasons why so many women don’t report RAPE. Because if she’s not bruised up or has any outward signs that anything physically violent has occurred to her, it’s very hard to prove that she’s been raped beyond having video evidence or witnesses to it.
To some extent, both forms of assault are very similar- they’re hard to prove unless the person who commits the crime leaves grievous wounds or involves witnesses.
I wouldn’t say that all rapes are *worse* than all physical assaults, but to some extent, I think that rape tends to be more drawn out and invades one’s bodily integrity insidiously and the after-effects linger for a long time and can even affect how people relate to people sexually in a consensual situation.
And coming from a background of knowing how fluid most people’s sexuality is (for the right person or people, there are many people who are generally straight who would find themselves sexually attracted to someone of the same sex), I know that the main hurdle that most of these guys would have to face is their own homophobia and misogyny, seeing as homophobia seems to be tied very closely to the hatred and marginalization of women/reverence of heterosexual tropes of strong man/weak woman.
And it kind of occurs to me that these guys probably don’t understand that not all gay people are the same or have the same background/way of relating- and that being openly gay gives you a big hit in the privilege plexus, which would probably outrage and confuse these MRA idiots.
And sure, a lot of gay men have tons of sex and partners and whatnot. But a lot of gay men don’t. And a lot of gay men who don’t fall into the narrow appearance factors (barring fetish groups or cultures) don’t tend to get a lot of “play” either.
I think the problem here is that most of these idiots have no idea what being gay is like at all, not even a little inkling of an idea. And so they play to stereotypes and tropes because that’s the only way they can actually think about the world.
Newsflash: Life is not TV. Nor is it like a movie. It’s also not like the fairytale books that your parents read to you about some mythical 50’s Leave it to Beaver universe.
If I had my druthers, these guys would become autosexuals and simply go fuck themselves.
I’ve jumped up to play the sims before, haha. Honestly, I play more video games than anyone I’ve ever seriously dated, and I don’t play them that much. Meanwhile I enjoy things like really great music and art/horror films and hiking and all that fun stuff with my s/o. because, you know, not every girl likes chick flicks and top 40 and going to the mall *gasp*. It’s telling how bad the relationships of these MRAs are when they don’t seem to think women can also be your friends and hang with the guys. No wonder they ‘re bitter about past relationships. Seems like they just treated their exes like blow up dolls and then ignored them.
Do they assume gay people must be so desperate that they’ll go for just any old asshole?
Yeah, they are so bent out of shape about women making the decision not to sleep with them, and treat that like the ultimate suffering. I can’t imagine what they would say if they got beat up for hitting on someone. They really do have their blinders on, don’t they?
I know you dream of being systematically oppressed but it just isn’t in the cards for you. You can say that accepting that certain groups hold specific privileges over others is an insult, but in doing so you’re admitting that you’re a moron. So keep claiming that, it looks good on you.
And as far as this “she hits you you hit her back.” What are we, ten? Really? I mean, unless she is a serious threat to you, the bigger person does this thing called walking away. There is self defense, and then there is stooping to someone else’s level. Plus there is the consideration of how hard is too hard to hit back if you must hit back. There is no need to beat someone for a slap in the face.
It just sounds like you’re really eager for an excuse to slap a woman.
And I am not touching upon actual abusive relationships here because obviously those are much more complicated. It’s not simple to just walk away from that. It’s also not an excuse to get a good hit in.
A completely unambiguous “no” to both. And I wouldn’t hang around with anyone who could answer “yes” to either. And yet I hang around here. How odd.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it telling that the whole point of this theoretical “If I was gay” discussion they have going isn’t actually to find someone they can live happily with, but just to find someone that they could enter into a mutually physically abusive relationship with, and have society be okay with it. NEWS FLASH. ABUSIVE GAY RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT OKAY EITHER. Its not okay to hit your partner just because you happen to be the same sex. And if that’s your idea of a good relationship, you have some major problems and shouldn’t date anyone, ever.
Here we go again, “We have only your word as proof.” -thus says NWO in response to an altogether plausible assertion by a board member here. Go to any MRA blog, and whether it’s the articles or the comments, you will see the WILDEST and most extreme yarns presented as not only factual but typical by their authors. But let a female attempt to present any alternative vignette of reality, and it’s “Prove it.” from the MRAs.
There is no rational discussion possible on such uneven ground. MRAs discount what another human being has to say on the grounds of the gender of the person doing the reporting. Perhaps this ties in with how many patriarchal societies limited the abilities of women to be witnesses in court, even in their own cases in some instances.
I have lived in many areas of my communities over the last several decades. I do not discount the notion that some women strike at some men – I saw an elderly Oriental immigrant family where the mother slapped a male relative in the back yard (these were recent immigrant Vietnamese folks, not a woman who’d been raised in western culture, btw). But the portait of a large-scale, general beat-down of the hetero male population in America is just batshit crazy.
Also, the notion that the law always goes against men is easy to disprove. Here is an extreme example: http://www.dailycamera.com/lafayette-news/ci_20170037/adam-raszynski-trial-jury-courtroom-opening-statements-deck. Obviously, many still have a lot of questions about what happened here, but it shows a legal judgement in favor of a man, and that’s my sole point in citing it.
As for lesser altercations, there are so many ways to defuse them before the larger and stronger party “has” to hit back, that I gasp in wonder that the MRAs who declare themselves so much smarter, so much more competent at life, and so much more mentally together than the female sex suddenly find themselves at such a loss, with so small an interpersonal toolkit that the only thing they can do is lament about slapping or hitting back. Lo, they hunted the mammoths, invented everything, and are still the only life form worthy of the name human, but let them be confronted with an angry female, and suddenly mental and emotional poverty smites them into helplessness unless they are allowed to invoke their fists. Really?
So why do they even come here and try to argue with us? What are they trying to accomplish? Shall we wither and bow down to their golden words? Is that what they think is going to happen?
I repeat: no rational discussion is possible with someone who presents his evidence freely but discounts ours out of the chute simply because of what we are. This situation will not lead to any sort of meeting of the minds or intellectual resolution.
Slavey is actually a great example here. He doesn’t even attempt to prove his assertions – we’re just supposed to accept them as inarguable fact because he thinks they’re true. Even the stuff where he can easily be proved wrong, and has been.
The only other time I’ve encountered a dismissal of anything women have to say as thorough as is standard in the MRM was in Saudi Arabia, and then only from the mutaween and their supporters. So there you go – to find anything as sexist as what passes for normal in the MRM you have to go to the most extreme living theocracy on earth, and even there most people will think you’re a weirdo – you have to actively seek out the most extreme people in an already extremely sexist environment.
And even the mutaween would never suggest that women are worthless after the age of 25, or that hard chairs are a form of sexism against men.
Actually, I often thought myself that it would be nice for some people if there were a therapy method that could turn straight people gay. If MRA:s just can’t stop hating women, while at the same time being terribly aroused by the people they loathe so much, it WOULD probably make their lives easier if they could turn gay, despite homophobia. Or take all these people who thought John Gray’s books made sense. If you think these books made sense, it’s because the opposite sex is completely incomprehensible to you, and you can’t possibly have anything in common with or ever have a meaningful conversation with your spouse in a heterosexual relationship. Wouldn’t it be preferable to be gay and have a normal relationship, despite homophobia?
Yes, Dvarg, it would. We keep hearing about “men going their own way” yet they linger amongst us, and keep turning the volume of their plaints up, too.