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Video Tuesday: PBS on Reddit’s sexism, and a dramatic reading of “SCENTED F*CKING CANDLES.”

Can you find the woman in this picture of Reddit’s admins? (Screencap from PBS Off Book video about Reddit.)

I’m not big on posting videos here on Man Boobz – aside, of course, from those involving kitties and/or other adorable furry animals, and, obviously, my own – but here are a couple you all may enjoy.

The first is a short PBS “Off Book” feature on Reddit. Most of it is fairly glowing, but at about 3 minutes in there’s a segment about the rampant sexism on Reddit, which includes interviews with several mods from Shit Reddit Says – who are the only women interviewed for the feature, and who elected to appear anonymously due to the very real threat of harassment from angry Redditors.

Naturally, plenty of Redditors were pissed that SRS got any airtime at all, and some were shocked and stunned to hear that anyone could possibly think there was a lot of misogyny on Reddit. (SRSers responded to it here.)

SRS also regularly deals with the rampant racism, homophobia and transphobia on Reddit, but there was no mention of that in the PBS piece.

The second video is a dramatic reading from YouTuber and regular Man Boobz commenter Jessay of that SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES rant I wrote about the other day.

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Dvärghundspossen
12 years ago

Okay, let’s compare these two scenarios…
1. Bill wants a soda. He steals Alan’s wallet and uses the money therein to pay for the soda.
2. Bill wants a soda. He says to Alan: “Hey, Alan, can you buy me a soda?”. Alan says “yes”, and does so.

The first is theft, the second isn’t (even if Alan wouldn’t have thought about buying Bill a soda unless Bill had made the proposition, the second isn’t theft, because Alan freely consented to buying the soda).

Was that difficult to understand? Not? The difference between rape and seduction shouldn’t be any trickier.

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

When will the MRAs understand that street harassers are rarely, if ever, the type of person the harassed is after.

I think it’s related, at least in part, to the common MRA notion that men are allowed to have sexual preferences — even to the point where they blame women for not meeting those preferences by doing cruel things like aging — but women aren’t. When a woman has specific standards for her sexual partners other than first-come first-serve, they go on about alpha cock carousels and hypergamy and gina tingles. Women (gay or straight) are supposed to be sexual objects for any interested men, but straight men are supposed to own, sexually, only those women they find interesting and are never meant to be objects at all. If you believe all of this, then having hot women assertively hit on you IS the straight male equivalent of having any random passing man harass a woman.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Pecunium — “But I’m male, and it’s a lot easier to get away with that sort of thing, slightly built or not.” — actually threatening someone, probably, but it’s weird, the more I walk around the city, the less people fuck with me. You’d think more walking would equal seeing more people would equal more assholes, but it’s like the inverse, the more assholes I just stare straight at with the “you come closer and you’ll regret it” look, the less people I have to glare at. There might be something to that theory that predators know prey, so don’t look like prey.

Point was mostly just the tip of “go for the eyes if you ever need to” though.

Sharculese: am i reading this incorrectly, or is he asking a fucking circuit court to invent a new constitutional doctrine?

Good God, what a hot mess that is.

I think that’s precisely what the, “father attorney” is asking.

I think so too, but last night was boring so I ran it by the nearly-a-lawyer best friend for his personal amusement. There was mockery of the idea of a cis man claiming gender disability (pg 19, second paragraph), and then mockery of what a snowball’s chance in hell it has. The only really bothersome part of it is that it looks like he’s arguing that children are property, but he’s going to be laughed at basically, his legal theory is a joke, and he has damned near no case law in support of it.

And “father attorney” seems to be because he’s a disbarred attorney, disbarred for violating a PFA it looks like. A real winner this one.

Howard Bannister
12 years ago

Why are there women against hyper-masculinity? I, as a man, am not against hyper-femininity…

What? WHAT?

Okay, firstly? I’m a dude. Taking me right out of the conversation when it’s convenient for you? Not cool. Not cool at all.

Secondly, we were talking about things that kill men. Why are you for killing men? Why do you hate men so much? I, as a man, am not for killing men.

pecunium
12 years ago

Abnoy: There is a kernel (very small kernel) of not false in that quotation… it might be possible to get consent by means of, “salesmanship”.

The difference, of course still being consent. If the “salesman” pushes to the end of the deal, without getting consent… it’s rape. The same way it would be theft if he got your bank info and wire-transferred the downpayment on a car.

You can think me a, “braggart” all you like. Try to discredit me by addressing things which can’t be proven. I said, “I seem to be intimidating”. I’m not big. No one has tried (outside the Army, the dojo or the salle) to actually engage in a physical altercation with me in going on twenty years. Some have gotten in my face. It’s possible that I look so abjectly weak and cowardly they all took pity on me, and chose not to beat the snot out of me.

But it seems unlikely that every single one of them, call it a score, all decided to leave the obnoxious little punk alone.

Hah, what a braggart. Who are you supposed to be, Wolverine? (Runty comicverse Wolverine, not tall-guy movieverse Wolverine)

Whunh? The average height, built like a Dürer anatomical sketch who knew he was practically invulnerable, Wolverine?

That, “runty” dude? No, not hardly. But hey, if it makes you feel better to imagine that I’m a poser who doesn’t know how he seems, why should I try to stop you. It’s not as if you aren’t good at imaging false things about people, such as the, “universal” fantasies of all men.

Why are there women against hyper-masculinity? I, as a man, am not against hyper-femininity…

That would be because hyper-masculinity harms society, and is a social ill. Your fantasy of the “hyper-feminine” is just that; some woman who meets all your desires, and does’t have the flaws you see in “feminists”. Then again, you again ignored the men in the equation who don’t think as you do. I’m against hyper-masculinity (as a social concept. Then again, I don’t think it really exists as other than a social construct, because gender roles aren’t essential).

But there are men against, “hyper-feminity”. They complain about the “bob-bon eaters” who don’t want to work. They complain about how all women care about is looks,and a paycheck, and how they (because of evolution) go for, “The Bad Boys” and how evil all that feminine behavior is.

As to your attempt to avoid the problem in your “universal fantasy”.

universal [ˌjuːnɪˈvɜːsəl]
adj
1. of, relating to, or typical of the whole of mankind or of nature
2. common to, involving, or proceeding from all in a particular group
3. applicable to or affecting many individuals, conditions, or cases; general
4. existing or prevailing everywhere
5. applicable or occurring throughout or relating to the universe; cosmic a universal constant
6. (Linguistics) (esp of a language) capable of being used and understood by all
7. embracing or versed in many fields of knowledge, activity, interest, etc.
8. (Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) Machinery designed or adapted for a range of sizes, fittings, or uses
9. (Linguistics) Linguistics (of a constraint in a formal grammar) common to the grammatical description of all human languages, actual or possible
10. (Philosophy / Logic) Logic (of a statement or proposition) affirming or denying something about every member of a class, as in all men are wicked Compare particular

n
1. (Philosophy) Philosophy
a. a general term or concept or the type such a term signifies
b. a metaphysical entity taken to be the reference of a general term, as distinct from the class of individuals it describes
c. a Platonic Idea or Aristotelian form
2. (Philosophy / Logic) Logic
a. a universal proposition, statement, or formula
b. a universal quantifier
3. a characteristic common to every member of a particular culture or to every human being

Yeah… I’m see a lot of,”everyone” and none of, “most/many”.

pecunium
12 years ago

And I just noticed this little logic fail: Why are there women against hyper-masculinity? I, as a man, am not against hyper-femininity…

So you, as one man, aren’t against “hyper-femininity”, ergo there should be no women who are against hyper-masculinity.

The two things are separate, and separable, why should your solitary opinion about one thing invalidate the opinions of all women about something else?

What makes you so special?

pecunium
12 years ago

Argenti: the more I walk around the city, the less people fuck with me. You’d think more walking would equal seeing more people would equal more assholes, but it’s like the inverse, the more assholes I just stare straight at with the “you come closer and you’ll regret it” look, the less people I have to glare at. There might be something to that theory that predators know prey, so don’t look like prey.

There is a truth to this; it’s part what makes me think I seem intimidating.

I got taught, a long time ago, by a guy who could be very scary (short, all whipcord and sinew; then, he’s a bit more plushly built now), that one of the best tricks is to bring your line of sight down to meet someone’s eyes. It helps. It makes them feel that you are looking down on them, and evaluating them. It makes the nervous more nervous, and the tough think they are facing an equal; or something.

I know that how someone carries their head makes a big difference to how I evaluate them at a distance.

Dracula
Dracula
12 years ago

Only a massive fool would fail to realize I was being sarcastic, ABNOY.

Your little game of “I know you are but what I am I?” isn’t going to work.
I’m sure you think you’re being terribly clever by constantly pretending you didn’t say what you said, but trust me, you’re transparent as glass.

Dracula
Dracula
12 years ago

I mean seriously, “Don’t blame me for the quote I used to support my argument!”? No one’s buying it, dude.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“that one of the best tricks is to bring your line of sight down to meet someone’s eyes.” — there’s definitely something to that in general, that’s part of wtf pissed me off so much with that welfare worker yesterday, she was literally looking down her nose at me, and seeing how merely being there meant I actually need “her” help, not much I could do about it (definitely not feeling the attitude that I needed *her* help and not state help though!)

“I know that how someone carries their head makes a big difference to how I evaluate them at a distance.” — that might be part of why assholes don’t seem to fuck with me anymore, I still walk around with my head in the clouds most of the time, until someone sets off my asshole-alert, except then I just stare straight fucking at them. The space cadet turning instantly to death glare seems to seriously unnerve most people. (Just because I’m checking out the architecture doesn’t mean I don’t see you, just means I’ve judged you to be doing your own shit and not relevant to me!)

The only asses who seem to bother me anymore are PUAs, and I think the next one of them to ask if I’m “spoken for” is getting told “yes, by a martial artist” because that’s sort of true — the FWB does kempo, though he neither has nor wants a claim of ownership. I don’t get them, it’s like they enjoy the challenge of trying to soften the death glare or something >.<

pecunium
12 years ago

Argenti: The space cadet turning instantly to death glare seems to seriously unnerve most people. (Just because I’m checking out the architecture doesn’t mean I don’t see you, just means I’ve judged you to be doing your own shit and not relevant to me!)

Yes. Most people don’t think they are being noticed. The predators depend on it. Since a lot of people don’t notice…

The PUAs… they are in their own world. I suspect they think the “death glare” means you never get male attention, so all they have to do is “pierce the veil” and they are in like Flynn.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“Yes. Most people don’t think they are being noticed. The predators depend on it. Since a lot of people don’t notice…” — Pretty sure that’d be where the word “hypervigilant” comes in…

And PUAs idfk, maybe my best bet with them is to claim I’m “spoken for” since my own say in the matter is moot, apparently. Telling them to get lost sure doesn’t work >.<

ostara321
ostara321
12 years ago

“I know that how someone carries their head makes a big difference to how I evaluate them at a distance.”

That’s interesting. I’ve had a lot of people tell me I’m intimidating and it always makes me laugh because usually I’m the person intimidated. I always figured it was because I’m tall-ish and broad, but I am also the kind of person who always looks people right in the eye. I always figured it was a respect thing (like, “look at me when I’m talking to you”) but I’ve noticed it does seem to unnerve some people.

Argenti, in my experience, the “I’m spoken for” schtick seems to work at least marginally better than “seriously, I’m not interested, gtfo my face”. Though I’ve found it’s most effective when I’ve switched the birthstone ring I normally wear on my right ring finger to my left to imply that I’m engaged. Pisses me off that my opinion doesn’t seem to have any say in the matter, but once it appears that another dude’s staked a claim? Bam. That’s it. Game over. One dude even went as far as to lecture me about how horrible I was for leading him on and what was I doing at a club anyway if I was engaged and did my fiance know where I was? Gross.

Howard Bannister
12 years ago

I’ve found the opposite–that is, despite my relatively large and muscled size, people don’t find me intimidating. And a lot of that is probably because of how I carry my head.

But that has to do with a severe allergy to eye contact….

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

ostara321 — That is gross, what’s weird is the one clearly-a-PUA I’ve dealt with just came up to me on the street while I was walking to the gas station for a midnight snack. Wtf about that makes anyone think I might go home with them?! Hilariously, I wear a hematite band on my left ring finger, so at a distance it kind of should look like a wedding ring, I’d think >.<

I think I will just directly state I'm "spoken for" if it happens again though, it's only mostly a lie, the FWB would grumble if I started dating someone with that little respect for me (not because he's staked a claim, but because he does actually respect me, enough to grumble that I know I'm dating an asshole right?)

Whether looking people directly in the eye is respectful or not seems to be at least partly contextual — you don't want the person you're talking to to be staring at their feet, you're probably boring them, but on the other hand having someone of authority (of any sort) or who looks like they'd win in a fight staring at you, yeah, can be unnerving. Strangers on the street trying to make eye contact I always take as an attempt to wiggle their way into my space and make a point of not flinching, or even looking straight at them — if you look them in the eye and they take it as an invitation to talk to you, you totally ignore them and “hey honey” becomes “stuck up bitch” — the few times I’ve gotten that from men not-in-cars though I quickly switch to staring straight into their eyes with a “are you talking to me? (because you really don’t want to be)” attitude.

Lol, and MRAs think they have it so hard, do they have to do this math to run to the gas station for a snack? I fucking doubt it. And I’ve been lucky, I get the “Sir…Ma’am…Sir?” thing from people trying to guess how to be respectful, I haven’t had assholes try guessing, maybe androgynous is just less likely to be harassed than trans* but I’m going to go knock on wood anyways!

(If this fails to make sense, Emilie Autumn’s music is stealing all my brain cells, she’s excellent, but that makes it very hard to think about anything else!)

pecunium
12 years ago

The predators flinch because they think they’ve been spotted (the guilty flee when no man pursueth), and the rest of the world… we have dominance cues, and socially meeting people in the eye means we think ourselves equal (US/European cultures, YMMV, not valid in all states, void where prohibited). Someone who is trying to be superior will find it unsettling. Someone who is uncertain of dominance (as most who are picking a fight are) is going to be put off their game when the response is “equal”. They want to have the moral advantage of being “superior”, which is why a bold front is almost as good as martial skill.

If you have the assurance of being able to dish something out (no one is guaranteed a “win”, and the only thing that hurts more than winning a fight is losing one), that bold front is almost always going to defuse; or at least, delay/diminish violent confrontation.

This is, of course, a generalisation. I commend “Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and other Dirty Tricks” by, Marc “Animal” MacYoung† for stuff on situational awareness, the branching patterns of semi-violent confrontation, and what to expect if t all goes south in a hurry.

†NB,I did the photography, and some of the posing and a bit of the proofreading for it. He’s the, “scary” guy I mentioned above. I get no money from the sale of any of his books.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Off topic but “I get no money from the sale of any of his books.” of course not, why give the artist a percentage?! *fumes a bit* and this is why “starving artist” still applies (for context here, I have to stop giving away painting and re-coup at least the cost of canvas, it’s just silliness)

Back to pseudo-on-topic-ness — seconding this: “If you have the assurance of being able to dish something out…” — I really don’t think I’ll “win” most fights, but if you start one, you’re going to get hurt for your trouble; combined with some basic Judo skills, it’s gotten me out of every mess so far. Including an ex over twice my size trying to shove me out of our shared residence onto the street in my fucking underwear — point was never to “beat him” point was to get my ass in some pants! (that was a fun day, he still insists I started it by trying to force my way through the doorway he was blocking, after I asked him at least 3 times to move so I could get dressed >.< )

That day also came with the vehement denial that blocking a doorway out of a room and staring down at me was threatening behavior…because gaslighting narcissists do shit like that.

Yeah, compared to ex's like him though, the in my face "hey honey" types are really not that scary!

pecunium
12 years ago

Argenti: I got paid. Photography for hire is sort of like housepainting. I get to put it on my CV, and all like that Marc needs to eat, and it’s not like being an author is to be rolling in the dough.

If you really want to talk about self-defense, this probably isn’t really the forum; I’m not against it, but it’s a pretty big derail.

The ex… yeah, “you started it when you failed to admit I was in charge,” I love those types. There are some stories…

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Pecunium — “…and it’s not like being an author is to be rolling in the dough.” — yeah I realize, but he gets a percent of book sales right? Idk, maybe it is vastly different, but I haven’t even bothered trying to get a gallery show because that shit only pays if something sells (and I can’t deal with the socialization required to have a gallery show)

Regarding the self-defense derail, I should send you an email in general anyways, I am failing to properly introduce myself huh?

Re: the ex, yeah, that’s basically it. He also managed to find a way to cheat in an open relationship, which takes a special amount of skill! Basically just all around a terrible human being, but enough of a narcissist to put on the appropriate front to fool people.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Pecunium — your LJ email was the one I’d found, so it’s been emailed, hope that’s the right addy!

pecunium
12 years ago

It works.

He gets a percentage of the sale price, against advance. Most books don’t actually, “earn out”, so the advance is all most authors ever get. And where does the percentage of the take come from? The publisher (not without some justification) see illustrations as something the author provides, so it has to come out of his take.

Gallery shows… oi, the economies of that. It’s part of what makes it hard to sell photos, because the half to the gallery means the price to make any money on a print is doubled, and I’m out the printing/framing costs, irrespective of what sells.

But they have to pay the rent, which is whether I’m there or not, so…

Cheating in an open relationship isn’t any harder than in a closed one… rules, you break them.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

W00t for epically delayed responses (I appear to remember to check old threads every 2-3 days >.<)

The economics of book sales aren't that different from gallery shows then I guess, just a different set of people who have to be paid before you are. What really puts me off the idea of trying to do a gallery show is that we have an entire art district, that makes it not "irrespective of what sells" but rather "regardless if anything at all sells" — and I can't afford to take that risk, I also have to pay the rent.

"Cheating in an open relationship isn’t any harder than in a closed one… rules, you break them." — ding ding ding! that is correct! I'd say it's still harder though, if only because the rules are more open to discussion (if one can have an adult discussion, which he usually couldn't manage).

Jessay (@jessay)
12 years ago

I’ve been told numerous times by men that they’re intimidated by my intelligence specifically. Every time a guy I’m into is like, “You’re probably smarter than me,” I’m always like, “Yeah, I probably am.” Hahaha. It tends to drive away the ones who are obsessed with weird gender roles because if a man can’t handle his woman being smarter than him if she just happens to be, he’s not worth my time anyways. I’m not dumbing myself down for a date. One of my exes understood how great having me around was because I could answer almost all of his random questions.

I find these guys are selling themselves short though. They have the ability to be really smart but they choose willful ignorance. They’d use hateful, ignorant words because it’s easier than learning why they shouldn’t and curbing their behavior. They’d rather stick to traditional gender roles because they cause the least social conflict directed at them.

Kinda related story. I recently met these three younger dudes (like 21, 22) who I was hanging out with and they were so into their gender roles that it was embarrassing. Like, two of them just up and fought with each other over some petty, perceived insult on the guy’s daughter (which wasn’t intended that way but it was interpreted that way). The one who took it as an insult wouldn’t accept that it wasn’t and was like, “Talk about my daughter again and I’ll knock you out,” and the one who said it thought it more important to be a “big man” who could “stand his ground” and, instead of being like, “Sorry, I didn’t mean it that way,” thought it necessary to say, “Yeah, try it, I’ll fuck you up.”

REALLY GUYS? These were good friends too. Of course being the non-drunk, older party, I felt I needed to try to interject. I eventually talked down the guy who said the original statement and he was telling me how he was too proud to back down. These guys were seriously lost souls, I’m not even kidding. And they were shocked at my banter and ability to make jokes, hold conversations, and make logical arguments. It’s as if they’d never met a woman who didn’t fit into the quiet, subservient, idiot stereotype.

See, this is the problem with gender roles. It leads people to make complete asses out of themselves for no good reason. If I meet people who I believe are smart and good hearted enough to learn, I can’t help but try and shake them loose of these boxes they’ve put themselves in.

Jessay (@jessay)
12 years ago

The ex… yeah, “you started it when you failed to admit I was in charge,” I love those types. There are some stories…

This sounds kinda like the mentality of pretty much every mra ever.

ideologuereview
12 years ago

“This sounds kinda like the mentality of pretty much every mra ever.”
Thinking is just so easy when you just clump all of your opposition into an inhuman, unfeeling monolith, isn’t it? You know every boyfriend who has ever dumped you? They’re probably all MRAs or “closet spearheaders.”