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New Men’s Rights Posters Fight Misandry with Racism, Homophobia, and Giant Trotskyist Fists [UPDATED]

Even North Korea is better at propaganda than the Men’s Rights Movement. Text reads: “Come to North Korea! We’ve got, like, shitloads of fish.” (Note: I do not actually know Korean.)

It’s sort of reassuring how bad Men’s Rightsers are at communicating with those outside their tiny movement. I should amend that: how bad they are at communicating what they want to communicate — that is, that they are the 21st-century version of the heroic and in many ways successful civil rights movements of the late 20th century. What they tend to communicate instead is what they’d rather the world not see: how blinkered and reactionary and hateful so many of them really are.

Browsing through the Men’s Rights subreddit last night, I ran across a batch of graphics one MRA had prepared for other MRAs to freely use, whether as online graphics, dorm room decoration, or posters to wheatpaste on the nearest family courts building. While avoiding the hysterical misogyny of so many of the graphics up on the Artistry Against Misandry website we looked at recently, CAGeorge’s posters reveal a bit more about himself and the MRM than he perhaps intends them to. Take this poster, ostensibly a call to “resist feminist bullying.” How exactly do you resist such bullying? Apparently, with a giant fist.

Huh. Your movement is known for its violent rhetoric, for downplaying and whitewashing domestic violence against women by pretending that DV affects men and women equally, for promulgating a sort of false-rape-allegation hysteria in no way proportionate to the actual extent of false-rape allegations. In some circles, it’s labeled, fairly or unfairly, as “the abusers lobby.” Do you really think putting this fist on this poster is going to help?

Apparently not. Apparently that fist ISN’T GIGANTIC ENOUGH. Meet MEGA FIST:

So, yeah. Also, FYI, that particular version of the old clenched-fist graphic has been used by the far-left International Socialist Organization (ISO) for several decades. Take a look at the little ISO fist to the right here. Same fist. You may want to switch that out, dudes, lest you inadvertently convert potential MRAs to Trotskyism.

And while I have to give CAGeorge a few points for avoiding the crass misogyny of Artistry Against Misandry, he doesn’t do quite as well avoiding racism and homophobia. Hence this poster, apparently an attempt to scare potential false accusers by suggesting they could end up sharing a cell with a scary and probably dark-skinned dyke.

Naturally, CAGeorge’s artisty won mostly plaudits from the Men’s Rights redditors who stopped by to look and comment.

EDITED TO ADD:  Woah.  Strike that last sentence. Returning to r/menrights I see that a real, critical discussion of the flyers has erupted. Many of the regulars are unhappy with various aspects of CAGeorge’s choices. Numerous commenters are critical of the fist imagery, including ignatiusloyola, one of the subreddit’s mods, who objects in one highly upvoted comment. One person even mentions the ISO!

Our old pal Sigil1 (a.k.a. the legendary banned Man Boobz commenter Eoghan) is especially critical of the “roommate” poster, and for a good reason: that it essentially threatens prison rape for false accusers. (He doesn’t mention the racism or homophobia.) But he still can’t help but blame the posters on a conspiracy of evil “false flag” feminists trying to make the MRM look bad.

Paul Elam of A Voice for Men, naturally, thinks the posters are fine and dandy.

CAGeorge, meanwhile, defends his poor choices. Here he is dealing with criticism of the “roommate” poster:

The bit about “nullification” is of course a reference to Elam’s infamous suggestion that MRAs should undermine the legal system by voting “not guilty” in trials involving men charged with rape, “even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

Still, this is a real discussion. If the Men’s Rights movement has any chance at all of transforming itself into something really resembling a real progressive movement, it’s going to need to have a lot more discussions like this — and those who really do want to improved the lives of men instead of simply demonizing women will need to make clear that Elam and his ideological comrades are no longer welcome in the movement.

EDITED TO ADD, PART 2: Now the legendarily cloddish MRA videoblogger Bernard Chapin has made a video attacking the posters and the dude who made them. He’s not worried about the violent imagery, or the racism, or the homophobia — as I pointed out recently, he is himself a bit of a homophobe. Nope. He’s mad about the use of evil leftist imagery, and accuses the maker of the posters of being a sneaky Marxist infiltrator trying to co-opt the MRM with evil Marxist symbolism.

Gosh. Paul Elam said he liked the graphics. Is he a secret Marxist infiltrator too?

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

It’s your fault people might think domestic violence is ok because you are the people that think domestic violence is ok. O_O

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@ideologuereview:

XD Nice one. “Did you mean first feminism?”

ideologuereview
8 years ago

I’m not sure where that came from, Shar. You seem a little tense, bad day at work?

Sharculese
8 years ago

youre right factfinder, today must somehow be different from all the other day when i swear at you for being dumber than a sack of hammers

ideologuereview
8 years ago

It’s your fault people might think domestic violence is ok because you are the people that think domestic violence is ok.
Is it okay if I use this?

darksidecat
8 years ago

That specific version of the raised fist was used by the Socialist Party of America as early as the late 50s, and is commonly used in old SDS graphics as well. The raised fist as a socialist symbol is over a hundred years old, though the older version has a rose held in the fist (some symbols still use the rose as well). I have seen the plain fist demographic attributed to Mexican leftist protestors of the 30s and 40s. Interestingly, also, often the general socialist fist is red or white, in some contexts, the black fist is used specifically by black leftists to denote black leftism (the Black Panther Party used a black fist logo).

jumbofish
8 years ago

You still find sick amusement at beating up pregnant women ID?

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

That particular fist does come, uncredited, from a Socialist organization.

(As to whether this particular Socialist organization is Stalinist in character I don’t know. But I’ve been on the net long enough to guess that someone who calls himself “ideologuereview” is almost certainly rubbish at telling one ideology from another. You know, the way a reviewer of ideologies might.)

jumbofish
8 years ago

*at seeing pregnant women being beaten up

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@ir:

Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery I guess… But when has lack of permission ever stopped you from randomly quoting people?

ideologuereview
8 years ago

You use the word “stupid” a lot, Shar, but you never elaborate. How are you my intellectual superior?

Sharculese
8 years ago

@bodsworth

ideologue: n. anyone who doesn’t agree with me

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

If you have to ask…

Sharculese
8 years ago

i don’t engage in that sort of passive-aggressive banality, for one

cloudiah
8 years ago

@IR/FF My stapler is your intellectual superior, and Sharkules is much smarter than my stapler.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Oh, of course! Should have known! I have well thought out opinions, you have an ideology! I have things I’d like to see happen, you have an agenda!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

IR/FactFinder: found any facts lately? Designed anymore games punching pregnant women?

jumbofish
8 years ago

You use the word “stupid” a lot, Shar, but you never elaborate. How are you my intellectual superior?

At least he doesn’t think making a game about pregnant women beating each other up for the affections of a millionaire is a great idea.

>_>

ideologuereview
8 years ago

i don’t engage in that sort of passive-aggressive banality, for one
So what are you doing right now?

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

I know you are, but what am I?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@ir:

What are you doing right now? Two swings, two misses, and now your just bantering.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

*you’re… of course

Curse you Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby the third, your infernal timing has rendered by “I know you are but what am I” response absurd! May your silks be afflicted by moths, and may your polo horse eat your most favorite hat!

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

I say, Kirbywarp! You just made my monocle pop out into my brandy! Most uncivil.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

You just made my monocle pop out into my brandy!

Light-bulb. ^_^

ideologuereview
8 years ago

Okay, so a bunch of feminists have crawled out of the woodwork but nobody has actually explained how I am stupid. I guess I’ll go ahead and do it for you then.
I am stupid because you think anyone intelligent has to agree with you and anyone stupid must disagree. It does not matter how much more they’ve accomplished than you, intelligence and possibly the value of their lives are just a matter of what movies they watch, what music they listen to, and what blogs they read.
You’re welcome.

jumbofish
8 years ago

@ID
What about preggo punchout? Could you explain that?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Not even close, IR/FF.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@ir:

Nah, you aren’t stupid. Tedious, yes. Banal, yes. Smarmy and self-righteous, yes. As dense and obstinant as a plutonium mule, yes.

Stupid? Not really. Unless of course you honestly think that the only reason you recieve ire is because you have a different opinion. Gah. *facepalm* It’s so much easier to deny a history of terrible posts than to have to trot it all out again as proof.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

@ IR – I’ve never met you. I don’t know if you’re stupid. All I have to judge you on is some words on the screen, and those words say profoundly stupid things.

There are two posts on this thread where you actually had a point, the first one states that not believing that DV affects men and women equally is the same as saying that DV against men doesn’t matter at all. This is stupid; because these two statements are not in fact equivalent.

The second suggests that because some feminist groups use fist logos, its okay for the MRM to steal a logo outright. This is stupid. For bonus points, it also strongly implies that a Trotskyite organization is a Stalinist organization. This would be kind of stupid under any circumstances, but since it comes from someone who puts himself forward as a reviewer of ideologues, it is extra stupid.

There you go, I hope that helps you understand why what you have written is considered stupid, and I also hope it helps you avoid writing profoundly stupid-ass shit in the future.

Yours Sincerely, etc. etc.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

I swear, if I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard some form of “you just hate me because I disagree” as a response to grounded criticism… It almost tops that one time I got into an argument with some random dude on the street about religion, and he called me a psychopath who thinks that no consequences should exist because I was trying to argue that hell is not a just consequence to anything.

Boy that was fun…

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

Since most of these things are public record, wouldn’t it be easily quantifiable to figure out what rape accusations are false rape accusations?

Also, in my instance, the rape didn’t leave enough “evidence” of the crime on my body, so it would have been kind of hard to “prove” that it actually happened, unless I had kept myself under video surveillance 24/7. Therefore, I didn’t report it because I was terrified of being told I was lying and actually locked up because of it.

I am assuming that this sort of situation also counts as a “false rape allegation”, yes?

darksidecat
8 years ago

Stalin and Trotsky loved each other so much that they gave each other cuddles in the form of a civil war.

Also, the feminist symbols that use the fist derive from feminist leftist groups. “Marxist Feminism” and “Socialist Feminism” are two actually existing branchings of feminist theory. It’s not co-opting for leftist feminists to use leftist symbols. It’s only co-opting when non-leftist/non-socialist feminist groups use it. The maker of these posters is not, to the best of my knowledge, purporting to be a socialist MRA or to be using the tenants of how he views his socialist views to build his MRA theory (felt like a fool just writing that, but even setting aside deeper issues of socialism and oppression, e.g. that it’s potentially co-opting or misusing of socialism and socialist symbols when done to explicitly support oppression, what’s going on here isn’t even analogous to leftist feminist use of the symbol if you leave out those factors).

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Nanasha:

If a woman mentions the word rape, and there is absolutely no remotely possible way in which the man could have been innocent, then it is a false accusation. So sayeth the MRM.

Funny enough (*blergh*), even talking about how you were raped in the past but didn’t step forward at the time is a false accusation. Because you mentioned it. Anonymously.

lauralot89
8 years ago

So male supremacists accuse feminists (and women in general, really) of painting all men as violent animals and rapists. Then a male supremacist makes a poster threatening women with prison rape by using images of female inmates with stereotypically masculine features.

What.

Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

And a woman exercising hypervigilance as she walks through a dark parking lot is misandry, don’t forget.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

@kirbywarp- Apparently, women who have talked anonymously about their rape experiences have actually received multiple pieces of hate mail from guys who either threatened her with rape AGAIN for DARING to talk about her experience *OR* alternatively, assuming she’s an easy slut because she was raped and propositioning her for sex.

*barf*

I think that’s the worst part about my rape, in my experience at least- was the utter disregard that pretty much everyone seemed to take when they found out about it- and how my sensitivity to the insensitivity people had towards rape in general seemed to get a lot more intense.

But I guess that’s just my problem, what with being a “hysterical female” and all. >_>

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
8 years ago

>>>As a former member of the ISO I almost did a spit-take. (although one of the reasons I’m a former member is that some of these MRS dudes wouldn’t sound entirely out of place at an ISO meeting :-/ )

I don’t know about that. These MRAs haven’t tried to sell me a newspaper yet.

Bedelia Bloodyknuckle
8 years ago

Do I smell red-baiting with their first poster? I would honestly rather be in a prison full of these women then those slimy MRAs any day!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

It would appear ideologuereview needs a dictionary —

stupid adj
1 a : slow of mind : obtuse
b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
c : lacking intelligence or reason : brutish
2 : dulled in feeling or sensation : torpid
3 : marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless
4 a : lacking interest or point

b : vexatious, exasperating

ideologuereview, if nothing else, 4b : vexatious, exasperating (except preggo punchout?! just a wee bit brutish there)

“Stalin and Trotsky loved each other so much that they gave each other cuddles in the form of a civil war.” — +1 internet

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

well shit, I broke the html, please ignore the apparent link fail, there is no link (the cake is a lie) — sorry!

ronalon42
8 years ago

@ Nanasha

I feel you there. I similarly didn’t press charges for my rape, and if I did I can’t imagine it would have been prosecute-able anyhow. Me talking about it doesn’t in anyway amount to a false accusation and anyone who says so is a liar to say the least.

Something can be legally impossible to prove and still be true (try not to pop too many brain cells mulling that over MRAs).

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

Sigil1 is right. Threatening false accusers with prison rape is inexcusable.

Punishing false accusers by burning down their houses and slitting their throats though, still OK according to their forum moderator.

apeedlines
apeedlines
8 years ago

If they’re going to have a witch hunt, I’m stocking up on popcorn.

gratuitous_violet
gratuitous_violet
8 years ago

BlackBloc, I’d love to see MRA’s trying to sell their newsletter on a college campus like the ISO.

“Excuse me, do you think that mainstream media lies to you and that bitches, in fact, ain’t shit?”

It’d be a ringing success!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Even the frattiest frat boys would take a look at the cover, listen for a few minutes and then back away going “putting women who talk too much in medieval torture devices? not cool, bro”.

darksidecat
8 years ago

MRAs have officially gone total Red Scare now? XD

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

@gratuitous violet:

David had a post a few months back about some MRA event held at a state university. It went over swimmingly, by which I mean hardly anyone showed up.