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The Spearhead’s W.F. Price uses the death of 22-year-old Marina Keegan to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.”

Marina Keegan

A talented journalist, playwright and activist died last weekend in a car crash shortly after graduating from Yale. Marina Keegan was 22. Before she died, she wrote an essay for the Yale Daily News urging her classmates to keep alive the sense of possibility they brought with them when they first arrived at college:

We’re so young. We’re so young. We’re twenty-two years old. We have so much time. There’s this sentiment I sometimes sense, creeping in our collective conscious as we lay alone after a party, or pack up our books when we give in and go out – that it is somehow too late. That others are somehow ahead. More accomplished, more specialized. More on the path to somehow saving the world, somehow creating or inventing or improving. …

What we have to remember is that we can still do anything. We can change our minds. We can start over. Get a post-bac or try writing for the first time. … We’re so young. We can’t, we MUST not lose this sense of possibility because in the end, it’s all we have.

Over on the Spearhead,  W.F. Price notes her death, and quotes these words, and more, from her essay. His point? That she was wrong.

By the time you hit 25 or so – just three years out of college – your life is pretty much set, he argues, and “your future can be fairly well predicted by your life at that point.” And this apparently goes double for women. Price titles his post: “After 25, Women Are Just Wasting Time.”

And why is that? Because if they’re not married to a good earner by then, or at least with the guy they plan to settle down with, they’re fucked. While an “average girl,” as Price puts it, should have snagged her future husband by age 21, non-average college girls buy themselves only a few more years.

As Price explains it:

Four years of college buys women precious little time in the mating market. … I’d guess … about exactly as much time as it takes for them to complete it, because their pool of future mates tends to go through the same process … That’s to say that she has her best shot to land a good match up to perhaps 25.

There are a few, well, let’s just call them plot holes in Price’s story here, but let’s hear him out:

The problem with young women today is that they internalize this “anything is possible” attitude and don’t lose it until it really is too late for many of them. They think they can do better at 30 than at 22, which, in most cases, is simply wrong. Some might say that family and men are not a priority for these girls, but women for whom this is really true throughout life are an insignificant minority. In fact, most women are holding out precisely because they think they can get a better man later, perhaps when they have a better job and work with more powerful men.

But these girls are not going to change fundamentally, and in their early 20s are at the peak of their beauty while still retaining an innocent charm. Nothing about their looks or personality is going to make them more appealing at 30 than at 22, and the men available to them are not going to get any better, either….

The point is that neither men nor women change fundamentally past a certain point, and the same guys young women have available in their early 20s are generally the same guys that will be available at 30, only they will be older and, due to marriage, there will be far fewer of them.

Yep, we’re back to the hoary old story of the bad boy cock carousel once again. Better grab hold of a good hearted beta while the getting is good, ladies – because by the time you finish off your slutty dalliances with the bad boy alphas your looks will be gone and no man (alpha or beta) will want to have anything to do with you.

Price continues, cranking the melodrama up to eleven:

Time tends to accelerate past a certain age, and the 25-year old woman soon finds herself 30, and then 35, and at that point she’s got precious little of it left. Perhaps at 22 she was laughing about the “comical” notion that it could ever be too late, but after a certain point it is no longer comedy, but tragedy, and her laughter turns to tears.

Now, none of this is original, and none of it is true. What’s interesting is just how badly misogynistic manospherians want it to be true. They must, because they tell this same story to themselves over and over and over, like small children requesting their parents to read their favorite bedtime story “again!” They (the misogynists, not the children) love the idea that the women who turned them down – or who, at the very least, rejected their brand of patronizing patriarchy – will get their comeuppance in the end, the more humiliating, the better.

Price at least pretends to care about the women he’s trying to scare straight (into marriage). But some of the commenters on his site can’t be bothered to contain their glee at the notion of spurned thirtysomething women collapsing into tears.

The Contrarian Expatriate turns on the sarcasm:

But why shouldn’t women feel this way? Women “can have it all.” They are “fabulous.” Women rule. Women first. Women are 20 when they’re 30, and 30 when their 40. Women, women, women.

Screech, crash, halt! (Then comes reality when the cuteness wears off and the pounds set in….).

Eximio shares a “shit that never happened” story of a high school reunion he went to:

[M]en do age better than women. I looked around at the women and they all just looked old to me. I could not imagine myself with any of them. They had lost whatever charm they had and I found attractive the last time I had seen them. Almost all of the men that were there with their spouses were with younger women. …

As for the women specifically, while they all seemed old, I noted that the happiest of the lot talked about their family. Some of them were married, some of them divorced, but in both cases they talked about their kids. They were clearly the most fulfilled. Many of the other women than I knew had pursued consuming careers were not at the reunion. Those that were, and who did not have children, had a whiff of pain on their faces. They seemed to be looking around and suddenly forced to face the consequences of their choices.

Or maybe they noticed that a patronizing douche was giving them the once-over, and shot him a dirty look.

Ode apparently finds it all so hilarious he is unable to maintain his balance:

The problem with college today is that it teaches a woman that she has an IQ of 115 so naturally she spends her time chasing after men who she perceives to be her “equal”, the top 15% of the men within society. Or to put it another way, a college educated woman thinks she’s better than 85% of everybody else.

Sorry honey the only thing your degree in liberal arts or communications tells me is that you have IQ above 100. Which means you’re better than the bottom 50% of society. No other conclusions can be made. Of course most women will never understand this. They will spend the rest of their bitter lives believing the reason why they couldn’t get Mr. Right is because men are afraid of a strong and smart women.

Falls over laughing!

Rmaxd offers a somewhat different explanation for Marina Keegan’s optimism; I’m not quite sure I even understand it.

What Mira [sic] is expressing, her not needing a man, that precisely because she doesnt need a man she can get everything she wants, well into her 50′s …

She’s accepted her feminist brainwashed idiocy & tried to turn it into a social norm

Her fantasy entails her getting an education, & competing in cut-throat environments designed for men … which require a male intolerance for anything not rational or logic

All the while her fantasy involves a child as an accessory & strong alpha thug, who’ll rescue her instead of pumping & dumping her to kingdom come …

Her vagina also gives her magical powers to screw over sex hungry beta’s without game, as a backup plan, if the jamaican thugs from her sex tourism never get round to playing captain save-a hoe, when she hits 30 …

Beta’s, a deranged feminists insurance policy, for when her vagina no longer cashes cheques she cant write …

Our old pal JeremiahMRA (a.k.a. Things Are Bad) suggests, in a series of comments, that we should push the whole timetable up a few years, forcing girls to get married to whomever their fathers say shortly after puberty. No, really, that’s his actual argument:

Honestly women shouldn’t be going to college at all. It’s a complete waste and takes away from people who can actually get something from education: men. The only reason they do it is to inflate their egos….

[I]t’s more accurate that after puberty, women are just wasting time. Wasting time slutting around, going to school, working, when they should be getting married to whomever their fathers say and having children, which is really all women are good at.

Today women choose mates based solely on lust and greed. Women don’t love, the only thing they love is getting fucked hard and being provided for by a man or the government. This is why in any sane (patriarchal) society a girl’s father decides who she is to marry.

Lovely.

Most of these comments got dozens of upvotes, with only a handful of downvotes. Jeremiah’s comments, a bit reactionary even for The Spearhead, got more than a few downvotes, but still only a fraction as many as the upvotes they got. Only Rmaxd got more downvotes than up, perhaps because his comments made no fucking sense.

So nice that The Spearheaders have taken the time from their day to honor the memory of a promising writer whose life was cut short.

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Snowy
Snowy
12 years ago

Nanasha, I can understand if you had a flaky teacher (that happens) but I don’t really understand why you seem to be blaming it on him be Jewish. There is definitely not that many holidays ever for someone who celebrates them all. Now you’ve changed it to holidays and also “events” that he was going to and would cancel class for, that’s pretty different from a religious holiday. Do you really think this guy would have been less flaky if he was an atheist as opposed to Jewish? Or would he just find a different reason to cancel class if he had something going on? The way you’re talking about this is really rubbing me the wrong way here.

LBT
LBT
12 years ago

RE: Nanasha

If it’s all about the self-directed choice and learning to work hard… goddammit, I was doing that BEFORE I went to college without shelling out major bucks! And sure, BlackBloc, the intangibles are nice… but that’s not nearly the impression I was given when going. I was expressly told NOT to study what I loved, because it wouldn’t get me anywhere financially. I was encouraged to study for the $$$.

If I was gonna get stuck scrubbing toilets and doing hotel laundry anyway, I would’ve just gone straight to it and skipped the shelling out of money!

ronalon42
12 years ago

I have a lot of mixed feelings about trying to go back to school. I really want my spouse to go to college because he is very smart and loves math and science more than anything and college is quite necessary for jobs in those fields. I have fairly wide interests and I can be content in a lot of lower jobs. I could see myself working for then managing a coffee shop or bakery for instance. I have also considered becoming a carpenter apprentice if i can get it. If I go back to school it will be for a Bachelors in Social Work which would probably not pay as well (or barely so) and cost quite a bit. I would be doing something more important though. Bah I don’t know.

Shockingly I can still decide to do one or all of these things in my life despite reaching the dreadfully old age of 25 /rollseyes.

Gametime
12 years ago

@ABNOY:

So you’re saying the thought processes of women change as a result of lactation? And men never mentally mature beyond adolescence because… they don’t lactate?

Does that mean that men who DO lactate are more mentally developed than other men?

I can’t believe people think feminists are man-haters when we have guys like ABNOY spouting all this garbage. Feminists tend to think men are fully-developed people!

@Uncle Elmer:

First, I do not think you know what “poignant” means.

Second, how the hell is “youth” a “strength” of women? I’m pretty sure women and men age at the same rate.

Third, your nonsense is bad and you should feel bad.

LBT
LBT
12 years ago

*sigh* If I COULD go back to school… I’d want to study art. Writing. Comics.

But it’s over. I’m out of money; it all went to my healthcare. And I’m completely burned out on academia. No more teachers, no more grades. I’ve been through four unis in my lifetime, and all but one were completely miserable, toxic experiences with me isolated, working myself into the ground, and being surrounded by people who wouldn’t have noticed if I simply vanished.

I still sometimes hug myself at night and tell myself I never ever have to go back. Thank god.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

ABNOY —
1) Nothing of what you said makes any biological sense.
2) Are you getting your views on how people change from TV?

Uncle Elmer — “…you can never win by improving your weaknesses, only by improving your strengths. That is a fascinating thought.” — hypothetical time! So if you can’t do 100 push-ups now, just a couple, and you decide you want to do 100 push-ups, and train until you can, that was down right impossible because push-ups were one of your weaknesses? No point trying if you aren’t likely to succeed?

“I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.” — Pablo Picasso

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

LBT — my minor was in studio arts, and having seen your comics, I don’t really think a university art degree would teach you much anyways, you’re good already (always fun to pull easy As though). Depending where you are you might be able to find non-uni “classes” at art studios and the like though, a way to waste a Saturday, not competing for grades. Up to you of course, my art minor and I just wanted to note that you’d probably get easy As in an art program ^.^

scarlettpipistrelle
12 years ago

Sounds like that Jeremiah guy would love everyone to be FLDS: http://flds101.blogspot.com/2008/05/flds-beliefs-101-arranged-marriages.html

Molly Moon
Molly Moon
12 years ago

Uncle Elmer said:
In broader socio-economic terms, we have given women the opportunity to build on their weaknesses (ability to compete against men) and discouraged them from capitalizing on their strengths (youth and fertility). They compete through artifices of fairness and inclusion that are borne on the backs of an ever-dwindling pool of male supporters.

Oh gee whiz when was someone gonna tell me my feminine talents include stopping time? And here I was thinking that I had to age at the same rate as men!

You know, I see a lot of old women. I wonder why they haven’t developed their talents of youthfulness? Is it because of feminism distracting them from practicing their lady magic?

(ps hello everybody! Long time lurker, first time commenter)

emilyperson
12 years ago

Lurker-comment here: if we’re going with the bullshit analogy of resume:kidless woman::kids:mom, and then we’re going to talk about “raping” a resume for money….

DO NOT WANT DO NOT WANT DO NOT WANT SO VERY MUCH DO NOT WANT.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
12 years ago
ragefromthebasement
12 years ago

@ Tulley logger

That was great! LOL

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
12 years ago

It’s not the same without cloudiah!

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pjqd3/

ABNOY
ABNOY
12 years ago

I’m saying women are more prone to/inclined to change than men, because biologically, their bodies are programmed to/accustomed to, undergo major system changes, as opposed to men, who only have a minor system change (that’s why even horny old guys can still impregnate women and create offspring with defective dna).

*That’s why we have the feminine archetypes of maiden, matron, and crone, aspects of the primordial triple-goddess, which doesn’t have a male counterpart. Yes, there’s the Christian father, son, and holy spirit, but that’s just a bowdlerized version of the father-mother-son trinity of white magick, not to mention Jesus and YHVH and the holy spirit are mostly treated as one entity anyway.

cloudiah
12 years ago

@Tulgey I fucking love you to pieces!!! 🙂
Memes are A W E S O M E.

ragefromthebasement
12 years ago

“You have cost us our lives. For patchouli candles.”

What does this mean, anyway? How are scented candles killing people?

cloudiah
12 years ago

http://qkme.me/3pjqhl
It’s a multilingual spermjacking candle!
(It probably isn’t funny. I went out for drinks after work, and the problem with drinking is that I think I am HI-larious but maybe no one else does…)

BTW, I hate scented candles. Did I mention that? Allergies.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
12 years ago

Hell, my current job (local government) required a bachelor’s degree, yet it consisted mainly of clerical office work (when I started at the lowest possible level) that a trained monkey could do.

I also work in local government and I have a clerical staff of soon to be 12 and they work damn hard at the job and no, trained monkeys could not do what they do. All offices have clerical work that must be done and while it may be tedious and repetitive, it is still worthy of respect. Cool it with the simian comparisons, government workers get enough grief from the public without being told they can be replaced with trained monkeys.

darksidecat
12 years ago

I am one of those people who does love learning for its own sake, and, with some exceptions, I did enjoy inclass time during undergrad (and some of it now too). In a lot of ways, the rich kids who get degrees as a transactional system are the worst part of college. Without them, we could all just be happily getting our nerd on and studying the interesting stuff.

Not that I have an issue with technical schools that teach a set of narrow, specific work related skills, I think those are fine, it’s the use of non-technical schools with unrelated curriculum as if there were technical schools or status markers that fucks things up.

And making schools more expensive increases the problem rather than decreasing it, because it discourages people who want to learn and study in favor of encouraging rich people to use it as a status marker. Academia and academics would be far better served if we didn’t have the capitalist nonsense around getting degrees but rather valued learning and study for their own sakes.

Shaenon
12 years ago

Lurker-comment here: if we’re going with the bullshit analogy of resume:kidless woman::kids:mom, and then we’re going to talk about “raping” a resume for money….

If it makes it any better, in the analogy the resume is also your husband (because what man could love a woman with a job?). So maybe the metaphor isn’t that you’re raping your children, it’s that you’re raping your husband.

Wait, that’s still awful. I’m going to go back to thinking about scented candles.

katz
12 years ago

LBT–you are totally talented and interesting and I’m sorry you had a crappy college experience.

Molly Moon–Hi! Don’t forget to visit the forum to receive your free hard chair and scented candle spa combo!

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@Snowy- I don’t mean to be coming across as anti-Semetic or anything (I don’t have anything against people who have faith-based beliefs). But it did strike me as odd that a class that was specifically about Jewish people in Italy during the WW2 era was being taught by someone who used his religious beliefs as a reason for skipping out on teaching over half of his classes. It’s probably because if he *had* used a non-religious reason for flaking out, he could probably have had disciplinary action lobbed at him by the regents, but since it was “religious based” he could use it as a loop hole. He seemed like a genuinely nice person, he just seemed a little bit flighty and flaky.

And as far as I’m concerned, if I was going to shell out MAJOR MONIES for classes, I deserved to have a class on a regular basis, seeing as I was paying for it.

Same thing with the professor who was teaching my senior seminar (in which I had to write a 20 page thesis essay)- the professor seemed to have completely checked out because he was planning on moving to Korea right after the quarter was over, so he basically just acted like an elitist jerk because he “knew more” about Asian culture than anyone else and wanted to make sure to rub everyone’s noses in not being fluent in Korean and Japanese (even though the class was about interpreting foreign language movies as texts). I can honestly say that I’m not the most knowledgable about Asian cultures, nor am I some sort of expert on the language, but he would come into the class with his nose in the air (literally sometimes) and talk in a disdainful voice about how stupid and ignorant “Americans” are (he was a white male, BTW).

And then there was a class taught by a guy who obviously had never gotten quite past the 60’s- he spoke like he was constantly drugs of some sort.

Bottom line is that the number of engaged, truly interested professors that I had while in university were few enough for me to count on one hand.

My experience in junior college, on the other hand, was the opposite- basically all but maybe one professor was SUPER into what they were teaching, and incredibly engaging for the class. I spent FAR less money on my junior college experience, and felt that my education was much more valuable. However, most people see my university degree and see it as more prestigious than my AA degree. Honestly, I love going to school- the whole “networking and schmoozing to get a job based on charm and who you know” thing is really alien to me- I usually like just doing good awesome work and letting that speak for itself, but you actively have to SELL YOURSELF to get a good career of any sort, and I’m very uncomfortable with that sort of behavior.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@ scented candles- I wish that this was like garlic for vampires and could keep MRAs away. I mean, just imagine, they can’t cross the threshold to a dwelling with a scented candle at the entrance without hissing and quoting tripe from Spearhead as they back away theatrically.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

@ Nanasha

If only. Scented candles aren’t the most portable thing though – do you think incense would work? One could theoretically carry that around all the time.