A talented journalist, playwright and activist died last weekend in a car crash shortly after graduating from Yale. Marina Keegan was 22. Before she died, she wrote an essay for the Yale Daily News urging her classmates to keep alive the sense of possibility they brought with them when they first arrived at college:
We’re so young. We’re so young. We’re twenty-two years old. We have so much time. There’s this sentiment I sometimes sense, creeping in our collective conscious as we lay alone after a party, or pack up our books when we give in and go out – that it is somehow too late. That others are somehow ahead. More accomplished, more specialized. More on the path to somehow saving the world, somehow creating or inventing or improving. …
What we have to remember is that we can still do anything. We can change our minds. We can start over. Get a post-bac or try writing for the first time. … We’re so young. We can’t, we MUST not lose this sense of possibility because in the end, it’s all we have.
Over on the Spearhead, W.F. Price notes her death, and quotes these words, and more, from her essay. His point? That she was wrong.
By the time you hit 25 or so – just three years out of college – your life is pretty much set, he argues, and “your future can be fairly well predicted by your life at that point.” And this apparently goes double for women. Price titles his post: “After 25, Women Are Just Wasting Time.”
And why is that? Because if they’re not married to a good earner by then, or at least with the guy they plan to settle down with, they’re fucked. While an “average girl,” as Price puts it, should have snagged her future husband by age 21, non-average college girls buy themselves only a few more years.
As Price explains it:
Four years of college buys women precious little time in the mating market. … I’d guess … about exactly as much time as it takes for them to complete it, because their pool of future mates tends to go through the same process … That’s to say that she has her best shot to land a good match up to perhaps 25.
There are a few, well, let’s just call them plot holes in Price’s story here, but let’s hear him out:
The problem with young women today is that they internalize this “anything is possible” attitude and don’t lose it until it really is too late for many of them. They think they can do better at 30 than at 22, which, in most cases, is simply wrong. Some might say that family and men are not a priority for these girls, but women for whom this is really true throughout life are an insignificant minority. In fact, most women are holding out precisely because they think they can get a better man later, perhaps when they have a better job and work with more powerful men.
But these girls are not going to change fundamentally, and in their early 20s are at the peak of their beauty while still retaining an innocent charm. Nothing about their looks or personality is going to make them more appealing at 30 than at 22, and the men available to them are not going to get any better, either….
The point is that neither men nor women change fundamentally past a certain point, and the same guys young women have available in their early 20s are generally the same guys that will be available at 30, only they will be older and, due to marriage, there will be far fewer of them.
Yep, we’re back to the hoary old story of the bad boy cock carousel once again. Better grab hold of a good hearted beta while the getting is good, ladies – because by the time you finish off your slutty dalliances with the bad boy alphas your looks will be gone and no man (alpha or beta) will want to have anything to do with you.
Price continues, cranking the melodrama up to eleven:
Time tends to accelerate past a certain age, and the 25-year old woman soon finds herself 30, and then 35, and at that point she’s got precious little of it left. Perhaps at 22 she was laughing about the “comical” notion that it could ever be too late, but after a certain point it is no longer comedy, but tragedy, and her laughter turns to tears.
Now, none of this is original, and none of it is true. What’s interesting is just how badly misogynistic manospherians want it to be true. They must, because they tell this same story to themselves over and over and over, like small children requesting their parents to read their favorite bedtime story “again!” They (the misogynists, not the children) love the idea that the women who turned them down – or who, at the very least, rejected their brand of patronizing patriarchy – will get their comeuppance in the end, the more humiliating, the better.
Price at least pretends to care about the women he’s trying to scare straight (into marriage). But some of the commenters on his site can’t be bothered to contain their glee at the notion of spurned thirtysomething women collapsing into tears.
The Contrarian Expatriate turns on the sarcasm:
But why shouldn’t women feel this way? Women “can have it all.” They are “fabulous.” Women rule. Women first. Women are 20 when they’re 30, and 30 when their 40. Women, women, women.
Screech, crash, halt! (Then comes reality when the cuteness wears off and the pounds set in….).
Eximio shares a “shit that never happened” story of a high school reunion he went to:
[M]en do age better than women. I looked around at the women and they all just looked old to me. I could not imagine myself with any of them. They had lost whatever charm they had and I found attractive the last time I had seen them. Almost all of the men that were there with their spouses were with younger women. …
As for the women specifically, while they all seemed old, I noted that the happiest of the lot talked about their family. Some of them were married, some of them divorced, but in both cases they talked about their kids. They were clearly the most fulfilled. Many of the other women than I knew had pursued consuming careers were not at the reunion. Those that were, and who did not have children, had a whiff of pain on their faces. They seemed to be looking around and suddenly forced to face the consequences of their choices.
Or maybe they noticed that a patronizing douche was giving them the once-over, and shot him a dirty look.
Ode apparently finds it all so hilarious he is unable to maintain his balance:
The problem with college today is that it teaches a woman that she has an IQ of 115 so naturally she spends her time chasing after men who she perceives to be her “equal”, the top 15% of the men within society. Or to put it another way, a college educated woman thinks she’s better than 85% of everybody else.
Sorry honey the only thing your degree in liberal arts or communications tells me is that you have IQ above 100. Which means you’re better than the bottom 50% of society. No other conclusions can be made. Of course most women will never understand this. They will spend the rest of their bitter lives believing the reason why they couldn’t get Mr. Right is because men are afraid of a strong and smart women.
Falls over laughing!
Rmaxd offers a somewhat different explanation for Marina Keegan’s optimism; I’m not quite sure I even understand it.
What Mira [sic] is expressing, her not needing a man, that precisely because she doesnt need a man she can get everything she wants, well into her 50′s …
She’s accepted her feminist brainwashed idiocy & tried to turn it into a social norm
Her fantasy entails her getting an education, & competing in cut-throat environments designed for men … which require a male intolerance for anything not rational or logic
All the while her fantasy involves a child as an accessory & strong alpha thug, who’ll rescue her instead of pumping & dumping her to kingdom come …
Her vagina also gives her magical powers to screw over sex hungry beta’s without game, as a backup plan, if the jamaican thugs from her sex tourism never get round to playing captain save-a hoe, when she hits 30 …
Beta’s, a deranged feminists insurance policy, for when her vagina no longer cashes cheques she cant write …
Our old pal JeremiahMRA (a.k.a. Things Are Bad) suggests, in a series of comments, that we should push the whole timetable up a few years, forcing girls to get married to whomever their fathers say shortly after puberty. No, really, that’s his actual argument:
Honestly women shouldn’t be going to college at all. It’s a complete waste and takes away from people who can actually get something from education: men. The only reason they do it is to inflate their egos….
[I]t’s more accurate that after puberty, women are just wasting time. Wasting time slutting around, going to school, working, when they should be getting married to whomever their fathers say and having children, which is really all women are good at.
Today women choose mates based solely on lust and greed. Women don’t love, the only thing they love is getting fucked hard and being provided for by a man or the government. This is why in any sane (patriarchal) society a girl’s father decides who she is to marry.
Lovely.
Most of these comments got dozens of upvotes, with only a handful of downvotes. Jeremiah’s comments, a bit reactionary even for The Spearhead, got more than a few downvotes, but still only a fraction as many as the upvotes they got. Only Rmaxd got more downvotes than up, perhaps because his comments made no fucking sense.
So nice that The Spearheaders have taken the time from their day to honor the memory of a promising writer whose life was cut short.
—
This post contains some:
You have the empathy and understanding of a snail.
I’m one of those idealists who still think college/university is there for personal improvement and that the degree (and therefore the job) that comes with it is sort of incidental. Which is why I’m marching each week with a red square and a casserole to bang on. I understand it’s not coming from the same side of the political spectrum here, but “devalued degrees” is what the Liberals (i.e. our right-wingers, I know.. .Quebec, right?) are saying will happen if we get our goal of free tuition for all, so I’m a bit annoyed when I hear about it.
Basically if your degree is ‘valuable’ I find it means that it is because it comes with a host of (expected) privileges, and some of the work we’re doing is precisely to dismantle that sort of privilege… though I am also aware that the so-called privileges that are promised are nowadays often not delivered.
BlackBloc, I think we’re probably pretty similar as far as what we think of education. My sense is that, in the US (can’t speak for Canada or anywhere else), college is primarily valued for its role in job acquisition. It’s pretty consistently held out as the cure for employment issues. I would really like to see higher education made affordable, but I would also like to see it treated as less utilitarian, and also not universally required. Some people don’t like formal education. Some people don’t thrive in those environments. Some people are plain not interested. And that’s ok. It doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of doing well at a variety of jobs.
Have the MRAs ever addressed women who DON’T want to marry a provider, who don’t see marriage as a way of being taken care of?
I mean, I’m sure some of them have — but has it ever boiled down to something other than “NUH-UH, they’re lying.”
Certain “feminists” have yet to address this too. *caughrubycaugh*
I would buy a whiskey scented candle if and only if they call it “Grandpa’s Cough Syrup” and make the candle’s jar look like a flask. It would have to smell like Jack Daniels, too, not Southern Comfort.
That’s rich, considering the quoted, MRA rant about scented candles upthread.
On Man Candles, if there were a maple-bacon scented one, I would totally buy it. My apartment would smell like Sunday brunch every day!
Alright…I really need to stay off that thread or I am litterally going to explode…They are now saying working mothers aren’t real mothers and all women that don’t have children, even Germaine Greer! are basically full of regret! I almost posted as a child of a working mother and as someone that is working herself I just wanted to give you a hearty FUCK YOU!
Seriously, my mom worked and my husband’s mom worked and they were wonderful mothers…Iam really getting angry at women judging other women on their choices! sorry for the rant! That just really really pissed me off
I am actually not really into scented candles because y nose ins’t so great…..it just seemed like suck a weird thing to get stuck on….I mean come on, who cares if people like scented candles?! Doles she rale on men that collect things? I think not.
Ostara, ask, and you shall receive:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/81952586/maple-bacon-eco-soy-8-oz-glass-candle
w00t! Sunday Brunch candle! You shall soon be mine! Thanks hellkell!
alright..apparently that candle comment got its own post….PRices is saying wooo! I just enraged a bunch of feminists! This comment is awesome! of course another comment going well duhhh she was making threats got downvoted but here is my comment if anyone is interested
name is of no concern June 1, 2012 at 14:12
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Damn straight that comment and that awful article yesterday enranged people.
Calling women that don’t want children un women?
Making threats
Saying that a nurse is ruining society because she is working and not really interested in having kids?
working mothers aren’t biological mothers?
Why the hell wouldn’t that piss people off…how about minding your own damn business and quit judging women by their choices
BTW as the daughter of a wonderful working mother and the daughter in law of another one…I jsut wanted to give a good hearty FUCK YOU!
BTW I am having kids and will be staying at home for at least awhile, but I have plentyh of other hobbies….yet somehow I end up NOT judging people for things that are none of my fucking business
While I agree that college has a lot of intrinsic value, at its current cost, it has to provide employment benefits, because no one can afford to pay tens of thousands of dollars for intangibles. But yes, if everyone got a free education, that wouldn’t make it valueless just because it wouldn’t help you compete in the job market.
@College Rant Stuff- I think the worst part is the cost of the college vs the amount of actual job opportunities you get out of it. I mean, even though they have a career center at most colleges, it’s generally understaffed, full of paper (not digital) job ads and some of those job ads are scams. It wasn’t hard for me to find an on-campus job that paid well when I went to university (I did the computer lab work, which paid well and then worked as a conference assistant during the summers when groups would come up and rent the university for various events), but afterwards, there was pretty poor follow up with the university to match exiting students with various fields. You were supposed to get letters of recommendation but you only had one huge class with a professor (competing against hundreds of other students to be even known by your NAME) and most of your classes were actually taught by TAs who were doing post-grad work. Then there was the class I took where we didn’t go to half of them because the professor was a super orthodox Jewish guy and therefore every other Wednesday seemed to be a Very Important Holiday that he couldn’t pass up, so we ended up not going to over half the classes (I mean, couldn’t he have figured out how to make the class schedule so he wouldn’t be stuck in the Temple half of the classes before hand?)
There are a lot of institutes where you build a resume/portfolio and then they do an actual job fair (and no, having a bunch of retail groups and the military come to your school is not a job fair) so you can actually show the industry you’re hoping to go into what you’ve been doing and your qualifications right there. However, most public universities and colleges are fairly poor at that, and after you graduate there’s this drifting period where you wonder what the hell you spent all that money and ate all that ramen for.
Hell, my current job (local government) required a bachelor’s degree, yet it consisted mainly of clerical office work (when I started at the lowest possible level) that a trained monkey could do. I have since added on more and more responsibilities and used the training and education that I mostly learned as a computer lab consultant and at my conference services jobs, but my actual BA hasn’t come in handy all that much beyond being able to write eloquently and be the official proofreader of the office for Very Important Grant Letters.
I guess that the bottom line is that college CLASSES weren’t really what gave me the value (although taking classes where we got to write about facism and Fight Club and writing papers about Japanese horror films and Freud were amazing), but it was the juggling and largely unsupervised choices that I was handed that helped me become a more fully-capable adult, as well as the fact that, coming from a working class background, I was not too stuck up to take a retail job until something more substantial came my way (and I even worked my way up to management of the entire printing department and increased sales reliably by like 400% before leaving). The bottom line is that people have to learn to work hard and do their best at the job that they have- because the satisfaction you get from doing a good job is much more important than the paycheck as long as you can cover the basics.
@Nanasha
I think you are exaggerating and I mean its really easy to complain about other religions holidays when christian ones have mandated time off. If he did miss all those days I wouldn’t be blaming his religion for the cause.
It can’t be helped. The male mind doesn’t really change much because apart from the minor change of being able to ejaculate upon reaching puberty, male bodies don’t change much. The brain is part of the body, and the brain generates the mind, so that’s why you have the observation/saying, “Males never grow up.” and “The only difference between men and boys is their toys.” The female mind changes pretty much because women go through the double-reverse major changes of being able to contain a fetus and growing breasts able to produce milk upon reaching puberty and then changing back to not being able to contain a fetus upon reaching menopause. Remember the ages-old wisdom about (heterosexual) marriage: “Men don’t expect their wives to change, but they do, and wives expect their husbands to change, but they don’t.”
Oh Gawd why did I have to go read the Scented Candle post on The Spearhead?????
But at least I found this:
“W.F. Price June 1, 2012 at 08:35
Dude, this post is dishonest. You are all “Woah! Where did all this rage come from? Crazy bitches amirite?” but you don’t include the final paragraph of that post:
“Fuck you, bitch. My daughters are coming for you. And millions of daughters just like mine. We see you, you superficial piece of trash. You have cost us our lives. For patchouli candles.
You will pay.”
Yeah. Threats, insults, they – well, they tend to provoke angry reactions. It was dishonest of you to clip that post before this final bit.
-Paul Murray
Fair enough. Yet somehow, in browsing comments on Futrelle’s site, I was able to keep my cool despite seeing his commenters write that my children must hate seeing me.”
That was me! Something I said pissed him off! 🙂
Ugghhh. Reading Price’s post has just left me totally deflated at the total inability to ever convince these people of their irrationality. My husband has told me to leave it alone. I think I will now. Sigh.
Futrelle continues to ignore my poignant commentary. This one got nearly 60 upvotes on that thread :
Peter Drucker, in his famous essay Managing Oneself, advised strongly the need to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and observed that you can never win by improving your weaknesses, only by improving your strengths. That is a fascinating thought.
In broader socio-economic terms, we have given women the opportunity to build on their weaknesses (ability to compete against men) and discouraged them from capitalizing on their strengths (youth and fertility). They compete through artifices of fairness and inclusion that are borne on the backs of an ever-dwindling pool of male supporters.
We have weakened society as a whole by building on women’s weaknesses in attempts to make them the equal of men, rather than encouraging them in their natural strengths. And while this charade is going on, men are encouraged to adopt feminine attitudes and lifestyles at the expense of their own natural strengths, now deemed unnecessary in the new gender-neutral economy.
You are a creepy weirdo
Does he think it changes into, I don’t know, rock or something? ABNOY, have you literally /ever/ changed your mind based on experience?
Viscaria – “New dog = wat is sleep?”
I dealt with this many years ago with a new puppy. I tried all the tricks — ticking clock wrapped in a towel, warm nest with towel on heated pad — there was no sleeping through the night. UNTIL! It was a small-dog breed; I grabbed an old stuffed toy that was bigger than the puppy, and let him sleep with it. Nighttime peace! (And daytime playmate. Don’t use any toy you’re particularly fond of; it won’t survive intact.) Good luck.
@jumbofish- it actually WAS that many classes, sometimes up to one or two a week, especially during the winter (we had three classes per week scheduled). The name of the class I was taking was “Jews in Italy” and it was an interesting class indeed, but the thing was that we kept getting emails the night before class about some jewish holiday or event that he was going to do and therefore we did not have class the next day.
But this guy was REALLY devout, so that makes sense to me. *shrug*
As a not-religious sort of person myself, I found it frustrating that he didn’t have the decency to take his faith into consideration when he chose to teach that class, or at least schedule it during days/times of the week when he was not in the middle of Temple stuff on a regular basis. I did the math and back then, we were paying a good 300 bucks PER CLASS per day (hence why I went to every class I had unless I was dead-in-bed sick), so needless to say, I was miffed when the professor appeared to be blowing us off for religious duties.
To be clear, I have many Jewish friends who do not behave like this, and I was merely puzzled in this case because he seemed to use his religion as a justification for why he kept canceling classes all the time. *shrug*