Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
…does everything need its own nickname? And more importantly, what are NWO’s thoughts on creampies?
The habit of creating euphemisms for every conceivable sexual act always makes me laugh.
I think the nicknames come partly from porn, and partly from giggling middle-schoolers who want to feel naughty.
The one thing they don’t come from is actual sex, because (YMMV and all that) generally it’s a lot easier to tell your lover “I want to taste myself after I come in you” than “I want to felch the creampie out of you.”
I’m amazed at how this thread has stretched out to other things and still manages to be on topic so far.
Granted, it’s mostly about NWO and the MRM being total fuckbags, but still. Plus, one can get a free vocab lesson from it all. Woot!
I only knew what snowballing is because of Clerks.
I suppose if the nickname is assigned to a particularly involved maneuver it might be easiest to just use it…
(Please don’t ban NWO. That would leave me as the officially most clueless manboobzer.)
Magpie: No, it wouldn’t. Even ignoring the MRA types, there are some less cluefull people here.
Magpie — even when you’re clueless (eg when you asked American politics) you’re polite and willing to learn, that’s massive steps up from NWO.
asked about* I’m having like a 50/50 hit/miss typo rate today aren’t I? >.<
Competition for “most clueless Manboobzer” is fierce.
I kinda like keeping NWO around just because he’s sort of funny-terrible. I’m fascinated with his hilarious Book O’ Larnin’ misconceptions about the world and with the “how low will he go?” depths of his hatred.
Plus I think other MRAs are kinda embarrassed by him, and that amuses me no end.
The thing I keep thinking every time I read David’s posts on about MRA’s and their ‘activism’ (I never read the originals *shudder*–thank you, David), is that these bozos don’t really care about oppressed or marginalized groups; they don’t really CARE about their own group (however self defined)–it’s really all about the individual, and no wonder they cannot actually achieve anything to speak of outside the internet (in group or public venues).
I don’t consider NWO clueless.
I consider him viciously small-minded, hidebound, fearful as hell of anything he doesn’t think he controls, and a living example of one of the most extreme Dunning-Kruger cases I’ve ever seen and, as we have seen tonight, downright potty-mouthed.
But not clueless.
@Cliff: The fact that the MRA trolls so seldom TALK to each other is something that has bemused me for some time (well, except in the case of a sock or two). I would hope NWO and Meller would embarrass the others, but I’m not sure I’ve seen anything that would make me think that’s the case.
“Magpie: No, it wouldn’t. Even ignoring the MRA types, there are some less cluefull people here.”
Yeah, like me 😀
Randomly back on topic — that twilight one, with the line about “tak[ing] a bullet for a girl for no particular reason” — I haven’t read or seen any of Twilight, so maybe I’m wrong here, but aren’t the boys in question a vampire and a werewolf, and girl a human? So wouldn’t the reason then be that humans are squishier? (In RP “more likely to die faster” terms)
I’m guessing the MRM sees that as girls are squishy, not humans though.
I have another thing in common with NWO, though. I see a word and it fires a neuron and I type out something irrelevant. I have to read each comment a couple of times and think about it for an hour to two to understand what people are actually saying.
Argenti – taking a bullet because you are immune to bullets makes perfect sense. (And could be a way to bring the conversation back around to Captain Jack Harkness 🙂 )
So being called a homophobe is his latest berserk button, eh?
Hey, NWO, you homophobe! How’s your homophobic life going today, homophobe? What’s that, homophobe? You don’t like being called a homophobe? But I’m just explaining why you’re so repulsive to me, homophobe! Why are you infringing on my rights?!
Also, isn’t the reason that he’s in love with her because she smells delicious* or some such horrifying thing? MRAs may not think that love is a very good reason to do things, but it is a reason.
*I have never read Twilight, only exerpts, but wasn’t there something about her blood smelling extra tasty?
@Cassandra: Her blood is apparently the heroin to his addict. Or something.
Captain Jack Harkness — “you’re the man who can never die” (yeah I watch too much Doctor Who)
I wasn’t thinking quite that immune, but white wolf oWoD vampires can take a bullet with way less damage than a human (and more importantly, can heal it with blood) — idk nWoD, sorry fellow white wolf fans. And iirc, a werewolf isn’t even going to slow down, unless it’s a really big gun? I’ve never made my ST calculator whether my insisting if I was carrying a gun, I was carrying a desert eagle was worth it…(I’m a melee player really, and blades are the appropriate weapon against vampires)
Your irrelevant things seem to be semi-related questions, not hate filled rants though. IMO you’d have to be both clueless and a hateful bigot to compete with NWO.
Vaguely remember you need a silver bullet for a werewolf, but don’t know if that applies in Twilight.
I try to be less of a hateful bigot every day 🙂 NWO seems to really enjoy being hateful.
I believe Sookie from the True Blood series has extra delicious blood because she is part fairy.
Oh goodness…I’ve played enough vampires to be able to explain that…and the rest of the series I think — he’s a Ventrue!
“Ventrue have exacting and rarefied tastes, even when it comes to blood. The player must pick a restriction on the type of blood her character can feed upon, e.g. only young men, no animals, only virgins, etc. The character will feed on no other type of blood, not even if she is starving or under duress.”
(wow, there’s no wiki for salubri, I can actually remedy that once I’ve gotten proper sleep and can find the requisite citations)
Being a hateful bigot seems to be NWOs only source of pleasure in life. Well, that and rage-wanking to the Disney Channel.