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A Voice for Men: Say no to homophobia! And then watch this hilarious video bashing lesbians!

Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:

Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.

JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:

[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.

JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:

[There]  are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.

At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?

So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.

But, hey, baby steps, right?

Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.

If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:

Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.

Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)

Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.

You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.

Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:

This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is  a trans man, not a lesbian.

Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:

John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.

EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.

I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.

Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.

Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:

Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.

Yeah, that’s probably it.

What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.

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Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

Thanks, but I’d like to think anyplace which has community would do the same. NWO is a sad and pathetic man. A liar and a hypocrite and hateful and all manner of other unpleasant things, but he’s a person, and as such deserves to be treated with level of respect and decency.

I completely agree, and can think of countless examples of the regulars here practicing what’s being preached – even our regular trolls have been treated with respect way beyond anything they’ve offered in return (I’m thinking of MRAL and Antz in particular).

Quite aside from it being the decent thing to do in general, it also helps give the lie to those idiots who call Manboobz “a hate site”.

evan
8 years ago

I can’t stand NWO, but I hesitate to speculate anything other than “hates women” as to what drives him.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

I know you’re having a different discussion now, but when I read this and realized that this passes for an appropriate and “romantic” portrayal of a relationship in media aggressively marketed to tween girls, I became so enraged that I embedded my axe deep into the wall. Now I have a lot of explaining to do both to my neighbors and to the person I’m subletting from.

The way the books are written makes it worse. It’s in first-person, so it lacks the emotional distance that third-person has. Instead of “Bella thinks that…” and “Bella feels…” you get “I think that…” and “I feel…” Combine that with Bella having very little personality, thus making it easy to project yourself onto her. It’s very good propaganda for abuse. When I was younger I read them and started being lulled – it wasn’t until I saw the first film that I realised “gods, this is bad.”

What’s disturbing is that Meyer thinks this is ‘romantic’. Edward is an abusive ****wad from the start, and he’s her ‘ideal man’. Jacob only really began to become a romantic prospect from New Moon onwards – at the suggestion of Meyer’s editor – and it’s in this book that he begins to change from “sweet boy next door” into “yet another abusive ****wad”.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

Totes OT: but WOO HOO! A nuclear submarine to be crewed entirely by women, bwahahahhahahahahahah! http://www.themarysue.com/michelle-obama-sponsors-all-female-submarine/

^Swirling thoughts of the Pink Ghetto and Pettycoat Junction…

indifferentsky
8 years ago

spelled petticoat wrong, damn.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

So… I’m back… why Petticoat Junction you may wonder?
Because I meant operation Petticoat.
DAMN IT.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Super late reply here, but argh Twilight! Yeah, it’s not that I have massive issue with sparkly vampires (heck, isn’t that basically white wolf’s Presence?) but that it’s a damned love story, and I’ve read exactly one good vampire love story, and it’s a tragedy, not a romance. The Silver Kiss, though, warning, I was like 16 when I read it, so it might actually suck >.<

creativewritingstudent — you're welcome to just call Edward an abusive fuckwad, fuck won't get you put in mod or anything.

More things I love about manboobz, my potty mouth doesn't get me stuck in mod!

And Re: NWO — I'll extrapolate as far as saying he either doesn't have sisters, or doesn't like them much, and that either his mother wasn't in the picture, or he doesn't like her much, but that's the limit to that; he may just have not thought his female relatives worth mentioning, he doesn't doubt that men and women can love each other I guess? I think his initial comment was just that that's the only sort of love he can picture two men having; not really surprisingly if he's 100% straight I guess?

And that's fine NWO, that you don't understand how they could have romantic love, because you couldn't, nobody is calling that homophobic, it's calling homosexuals repulsive that's the problem.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.

The implication of his wordsis that, yes, he sees it as normal and healthy for an XY person to be sexually attracted to zir XX immediate relatives. However, the implication we ought to draw about him is that he didn’t think through the implication of his words properly. It’s okay to mock him for failing to think through the implication for his words, however.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

I just didn’t want to associate Twilight with the noble and awesome acts of fucking…

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

NWO has said in so many words that he hates gay people, trans people, non-white and wrong-kind-of-white-people, women who have sex and women who don’t have sex, women who have jobs and women who don’t have jobs, that he thinks women should be beaten in the street and teenagers should be raped, and we have to make up things that might make him seem gross?

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

creativewritingstudent — that’s more a problem with the many uses of the word than with Twilight, but whoops on my part all the same!

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

…and we have to make up things that might make him seem gross?

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE.

Also keep in mind that NWO does exactly that all the time, which is part of what makes him a contemptible asshole.

Do we really wanna play by his rules?

darksidecat
8 years ago

NWO suggested I want to fuck my parents and siblings, I don’t see how it is the slightest bit out of line for people to joke as a response about him wanting to fuck his.

Amused
8 years ago

Cliff Pervocracy

NWO has said in so many words that he hates gay people, trans people, non-white and wrong-kind-of-white-people, women who have sex and women who don’t have sex, women who have jobs and women who don’t have jobs,

Don’t forget the <Jews Rothchilds and Rothchildettes.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

@Agenti Aertheri – dw, I know that’s the conclusion most people would spring to. I am trying to temper my cussin’ though, because I have a six-year-old cousin. It’s not easy.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

Besides, the whole abstinence thing in Twilight is weird as hell. The reason they give for abstaining from sex in the first books is NOT that sex before marriage is evil, but that Edward is super-strong and would seriously injure Bella. And that actually MAKES SENSE; I’ve always wondered about superstrong superheroes dating normal humans, and how they could ever have sex with each other… it’s not like anybody have a lot of control over exactly how hard they push when they’re approaching orgasm, so… makes sense.
The WEIRD thing is that it’s suddenly OKAY for them to have sex once they’re married! I mean, he’s STILL superstrong! She’s STILL just an ordinary human being!

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

Twilight is like an onion hole of all that can be wrong in relationship, and all that can be wrong in a vampire story. There are endless layers of wrongness.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

*is like an onion of all

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

I’ve always wondered about superstrong superheroes dating normal humans, and how they could ever have sex with each other…

Ever read “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex”?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@MollyRen. No, I hadn’t. Thanks for sharing though. *lol*

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

I gotta tell ya, this really puts Superman’s “world made of cardboard” speech to Darksied in the Justice League cartoon into a much different perspective.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Dvärghundspossen: I’ve always wondered about superstrong superheroes dating normal humans, and how they could ever have sex with each other… it’s not like anybody have a lot of control over exactly how hard they push when they’re approaching orgasm, so… makes sense.

You might like to read “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex” by Larry Niven, who was explaining why Lois Lane and Superman could never have sex, much less children.

Which I see Molly has beaten me to the punch on. Larry was spot on with a lot of that.

ABNOY
ABNOY
8 years ago

“Twilight is like an onion hole of all that can be wrong in relationship, and all that can be wrong in a vampire story. There are endless layers of wrongness.”

What’s the matter, can’t accept that your Western RadFem notions of Love/Sex/Romance/Eroticism/etc isn’t Universal Standard for Homo Sapiens?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

Btw, in Frank Miller’s “the Dark Night Strikes Again” Superman and Wonderwoman are a couple and have a teenage daughter. In one scene she talks relationships with her dad, and he gives her his number one advice; Never do it with a terran, they’re way too fragile.

Anyway, in the first Twilight book it’s stated that Edward might break Bella’s bones or even kill her if they’d tried to fuck, due to his superstrength. Once they’re married all that happens is that she’s beaten black and blue and passes out from fucking Edward, she isn’t put in hospital and she doesn’t die… So somehow marriage softens the blows.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

I certainly can and do, ABNOY, it’s just I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy to be in such unhealthy relationship. If say cancer is bad, do you think that means everybody who isn’t to my image is sick?

You’re a weird troll. It sounds like you maybe want to be offensive, but my main emotion at reading you is ‘puzzled’.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

ABNOY — the last 2+ pages are mostly on how bad Twilight is and way, and most of them have nothing to do with feminist ideas. Wtf does the romance bit of Twilight have to do with breaking all standard vampire conventions for example?

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

ZOMG, Twilight bash! YES! I love to hate this shit; I watched the Rifftraxx for the movie for my bachelor party. It was awesome. Best wedding present ever. Seriously, that book series is a giant clusterfuck of WTF, racism, and general doucheyness.

But you know what might actually almost beat it? FIFTY SHADES OF GREY! It started as Twilight “BDSM” fanfiction (quotes because it has about as much resemblance to actual BDSM as girl-on-girl porn has to actual lesbians). I’m MSTing it for posterity. IT HURTS SO GOOOOOOD.

RE: Dvarghundspossen, superstrong vs. squishy peeps.

Phil Foglio also tackled it in XXXenophile, with one of his characters afflicted with a curse of strength. They solved it with bondage.

RE: Argenti

Hey, Silver Kiss! Reread that for a Youth Lit class a couple years ago; still creepy, but it at least OWNED its creepiness, for what I recall. Also, the vampire is really obviously not meant to be that human in behavior. He pisses on the girl’s porch to mark his territory, for Chrissakes.

RE: Manjaw

Your comments delight me. I hope you stick around.

ABNOY
ABNOY
8 years ago

Obviously the Twilight series must be doing something right, otherwise it wouldn’t have been popular enough to be a publishing phenomenon in it’s own right. I mean, the fact that just as many people who supposedly hate it, as those who actually love it, are actually bothering to spend hours upon hours of their limited time alive on this Earth to just to discuss it, should tell you something. Hundreds of years from now, people will STILL be reading and watching and talking about it, mark my words.

* And something that has made Hideo Kojima a “huge fan” (according to Pixiv) definitely has something going for it…

Kavette
Kavette
8 years ago

I don’t really know what goes on in NWO’s head, my posts were of the mocking/joking variety. Perhaps I should have posted a lol thing after them.

BUT… he’s read them and not responded, either he’s realized that saying he can love his brothers and dad but not be sexually attracted to them doesn’t make a lot of sense when you can love your mom or sisters and be a heterosexual man while not being sexually attracted to them. Or… ick.

jumbofish
8 years ago

Dude, just give it up kavette and quit digging your hole deeper.

jumbofish
8 years ago

my posts were of the mocking/joking variety

Obviously you were serious, why else would you debate it serious when I called you out on it? Only know after you realize people were okay with it do you pretend it was “just a joke”. Thats about as believable as Tommy Wiseau claiming The Room was intended as a dark comedy.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

Obviously the Twilight series must be doing something right, otherwise it wouldn’t have been popular enough to be a publishing phenomenon in it’s own right. I mean, the fact that just as many people who supposedly hate it, as those who actually love it, are actually bothering to spend hours upon hours of their limited time alive on this Earth to just to discuss it, should tell you something. Hundreds of years from now, people will STILL be reading and watching and talking about it, mark my words.

* And something that has made Hideo Kojima a “huge fan” (according to Pixiv) definitely has something going for it…

Yes, that something right being riding the fantasy genre boom and targeting immature teenagers (and some immature adults too). People who hate it talk about it because of how amazingly bad it is, in just about every way. It’s sexist, it’s boring, it’s poorly written and the characters are unlikeable and poorly developed. It takes a particular kind of genius to be able to fail so miserably.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Kavette, NWO hardly responds to anyone’s posts directly.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

LBT — that’s about what I remember of it too. It was creepy, and dark, and tragic, and everything a proper vampire story should be, while being far more readable than Dracula or Nosferatu. And thanks for answering whether 50 Shades of Grey is worth the time — “quotes because it has about as much resemblance to actual BDSM as girl-on-girl porn has to actual lesbians” — apparently it isn’t.

katz
8 years ago

And thanks for answering whether 50 Shades of Grey is worth the time

Second this; I’d been wondering about it too.

ABNOY
ABNOY
8 years ago

Stephanie Meyer became so rich that she doesn’t have to work ever again in her life, and arguably neither do generations of her descendants. Hell, I wish I was that “miserable” a “failure”. What’s your definition of success, becoming a literal Goddess-Queen of the Milky Way?

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

What’s your definition of success, becoming a literal Goddess-Queen of the Milky Way?

How about “writing something vaguely good”?

Stephanie Meyer unquestionably made vast sums of money, but it’s perfectly legitimate to think that success should involve doing something worth more than just money, especially when you’re measuring success in a creative pursuit. I’m pretty cool with saying that people who’ve won the Nobel Prize for literature are more successful writers than Stephanie Meyer in some very important ways.

Similarly, I think Vincent Van Gogh was a more successful artist than Thomas Kinkade, even though the former died poor and the latter made a good deal of money, because the former actually made art that doesn’t suck. Kinkade was a more successful maker-of-money, which is one way to measure success, but it’s definitely not the only way.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Similarly, I think Vincent Van Gogh was a more successful artist than Thomas Kinkade, even though the former died poor and the latter made a good deal of money, because the former actually made art that doesn’t suck. Kinkade was a more successful maker-of-money, which is one way to measure success, but it’s definitely not the only way.”

THIS! van Gogh will be the creator of expressionism long after Kinkade ceases to be “the painter of light” *cough* yellow *cough* — likewise Dracula’s been an academic staple for a century, Twilight will probably never become one. And Beiber vs Beatle mania? (Though we might be stuck with Beiber, I heard N’Sync or such in the gas station yesterday >.< )

ABNOY
ABNOY
8 years ago

Hey, Thomas Kincade is ok, I actually had (still do) works of his in my bedroom in my family home growing up. What’s so sucky about his pretty special effects? Are you that photosensitive or something?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

ABNOY — >.<

"What’s so sucky about his pretty special effects?" — yellow, his special effect, singular, is yellow paint

“Are you that photosensitive or something?” — that does not mean what you think it means; photosensitive adj.
1. Sensitive or responsive to light or other radiant energy.
2. Medicine Abnormally sensitive or reactive to light.

It’s not that they are utterly terrible, it’s that they’re something most first year students could do, thus making first year students, and anyone who ever was one, pissed that he’s rich while starving artist remains the standard. He’s lucky, not good.

Pecunium
8 years ago

His stuff is trite. His use of, “light” is something I’ve been seeing airbrush artists do for years. He’s adequate, not special. He was lucky enough to hit a niche of American kitsch at just the right time.

He’s no Turner.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

* And something that has made Hideo Kojima a “huge fan” (according to Pixiv) definitely has something going for it…

Hideo Kojima is a professional troll, so…

Sharculese
8 years ago

What’s the matter, can’t accept that your Western RadFem notions of Love/Sex/Romance/Eroticism/etc isn’t Universal Standard for Homo Sapiens?

this is the rich from the dude who simpers passive aggressively at anyone who doesn’t share his view of the world

Sharculese
8 years ago

thomas kincade knew exactly why people bought his painting and he was a master at cynically manipulating theyre ressentiment, so it really isnt surprising that abnoy eats that shit up

Sharculese
8 years ago

who is hideo kojima and why am i supposed to care about his opinions on literature?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

I couldn’t tell you why you should care, but he’s the dude who headed up the Metal Gear series of games. Except he didn’t want to make anymore after the third one and he didn’t want to make a subpar game, so he’s put his energies into trolling his fanbase until they let him make the games he wants to make. His last major game had a character included for the express purpose of making nerds feel bad for being nerds… XD

Pecunium
8 years ago

Carp… I borked the HTML:

Cloudiah: Yes, that turner.

Vesuvius has the intense white because he scraped away the paint to reveal the bleached canvas.

Even when he was being sentimental as in The Fighting Tremeraire being towed to her last berth to be broken up there is more actual emotion, and connection between the subject and the viewer than in anything Kinkade has ever done.

This is a collection of paintings Some great stuff. I really like The Grand Canal, and esp. (in this context, because it compares to Kincade) The Chichester Canal even though I think Crowes, Isle of Wight, or Flint Castle are more to my taste.

Sharculese
8 years ago

@rutee

thanks. i was totally willing to believe that ‘random dude abnoy likes’ had some reason to be taken as an authority on the subject, but now… the first metal gear solid was decent but then i turned the second one off because it would not stop being a bunch of boring people talking about Fucking Nothing at All