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A Voice for Men: Say no to homophobia! And then watch this hilarious video bashing lesbians!

Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:

Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.

JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:

[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.

JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:

[There]  are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.

At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?

So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.

But, hey, baby steps, right?

Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.

If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:

Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.

Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)

Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.

You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.

Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:

This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is  a trans man, not a lesbian.

Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:

John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.

EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.

I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.

Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.

Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:

Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.

Yeah, that’s probably it.

What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.

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creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

You mentioned Twilight and roused the beast.

Linds –

To pick out one of the older comments, can I just point out that the werewolf who tore up his girlfriend’s face was NOT an abusive dick? It happened because she was nearby when he turned into a werewolf for the first time and it was a complete and utter accident. (I really like the the character– he’s one of the few Native American characters in the books who seems to actually care about his tribe’s traditions).

Sam Uley was not near Emily Young when he first transformed. Sam was engaged to Emily’s cousin Leah Clearwater (who I want to smuggle out of Twilight for being legitimately awesome) when he first fursploded. When he saw Emily for the first time, he “inprinted” on her, and told her that he was her destined one etc etc. Emily said no as she was close to Leah (they were like sisters), at which point Sam got angry and fursploded at her, ripping her face open so badly they described it as a “bear attack” to any and all non-wolves.
Sam then visits Emily in hospital and she takes him in because he’s “so upset” (or she doesn’t want to get her face ripped off again, which is more likely).
Now she’s his muffin-baking fiancee, and when he greets her in New Moon he kisses her scars like he’s proud of them. It’s reading damn close to abusive dick to me.

And there’s the treatment of Leah in this as well. Leah, whose first fursplosion lead to her father’s fatal heart attack, lost her fiancee and cousin (but still has to stand up in their wedding – I have heard some people interpret this as Emily wanting Leah to be there to protect her if Sam attacks her again) but still has to listen in on Sam’s loveydovey thoughts about Emily. And gets called a “bitter harpy”. And Jacob, who has gone through much less than she has, gets showered with sympathy because he’s a man.
And then Meyer outright says that Sam must have imprinted on Emily because Leah is infertile and ‘not really a woman’.

I have spent the last few years almost professionally *hating* Twilight. Not that Twilight-hater is a career, but if it was, I would probably get that job.

amandajane5
8 years ago

If you’d like a hilarious and fairly thorough run-down of the Twilight books, I recommend this:

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html (part one, it links to the other three)

It’s written by a former Mormon and is hilarious. Very image-heavy though, so be warned.

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

DARKIES?

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

LOL, a lot of comments had been made since what I thought my reply would immediately follow so now that comment looks weird.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

As further illustration of how vampires can differ (and as further evidence of me being an insufferable know-it-all about books I love); in the novel Dracula himself did age. Or at least, when he initially meets with Harker he appears as an elderly man.

When Harker discovers him resting in his coffin (after having fed), Harker described the Count as having had his “youth half renewed”, his hair changed from white to iron-grey. Later, when he sees him again, he looks even younger.

Obviously suggesting that Dracula ages if he doesn’t feed. He had probably been abstaining deliberately in anticipation of the meeting, because Harker would likely have been more suspicious of a young man living in a remote, decaying ruin.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Regarding the OP, did anybody notice that Jade Michael himself shows up I the comments?

I honestly hope I never see anyone blatantly discount homosexual men in the MRM. It was middle-aged homosexual men who kept me fed when I was on the streets in my youth. They were father figures when I needed them and they showed me kindness and respect that I hadn’t received from my male peers up to that point.

Gay men have done so much activism for men in general in the past 50 years because they genuinely care about men and they know all too well what a desolate trap the traditional heterosexual lifestyle can be (especially the ones who fell into that trap out of fear). For anyone to discredit what gay men have done for ALL male sexuality is to wipe out some of our strongest allies. Many of them have been doing activism on men’s behalf for years. I dare say we could even learn a thing or two from them.

Well shucks, Jade, maybe you should take down all the homophobic “work” on the 90s-style website you run, then.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
8 years ago

I don’t understand Twilight. I really don’t. A lot of people have tried to explain it to me but I just end up going “Huh?” or “Ew” or “Oh what the fuck?!” I tried watching the first movie but shut it off after a half hour.

I’m not surprised that MRAs have latched onto it as proof that 1) women are attracted to assholes who treat them like shit, 2) women secretly know that they are nothing without a man. It’s the same as when they were banging on and on and on about Sex in the City and how it was proof that 1) all women are hypergamous sluts 2) women are vain, shallow, and only interested in a man’s finances, and 3) women are attracted to assholes who treat them like shit.

And honestly, it is worrying that Twilight is so popular among teenaged girls. As far as young adult fiction goes, I hope the Hunger Games trilogy will counteract that somewhat. At least Katniss is a character with her own thoughts and exhibits what free will she can under the circumstances. I know technically Hunger Games fails the Bechdel test, but it comes damn close.

tl/dr – MRAs love Twilight.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

According to the film Santo vs the Vampire Women, a vampire’s greatest weakness is their vulnerability to wrestling.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

we could even learn a thing or two from them

*looks at the results of AIDS activism, removal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and increasing success at legalizing same-sex marriage in individual states*

I doubt the MRA could learn anything from gay activism mostly because the MRA seems incapable of learning not to mention aren’t really in the same marginalized status as GLBT activists.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

Oops, only the first line should be italicized.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

Funny, despite the widespread discrimination that gay people face in society, I don’t see gay people spamming Internet forums threatening to fuck shit up and inflict pain on their opposition. Clearly their oppression pales in comparison to the oppression of poor MRAs.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

I don’t understand Twilight. I really don’t. A lot of people have tried to explain it to me but I just end up going “Huh?” or “Ew” or “Oh what the fuck?!” I tried watching the first movie but shut it off after a half hour.

I remember going to watch the first movie with a girlfriend and coming to the conclusion that it was secretly a kink movie, because they were all “No sex, just biting!” How wrong I was…

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

NWO, we’re not calling you a homophobe because you “find gay sex to be repulsive,” but because, when talking about gay people in general, the first thing you say is how repulsed you are by the sex life of theirs that you don’t even have to witness. You see a gay man and your mind goes straight to, “Eww, he has anal sex with another man,” unlike when you see a straight man, and don’t think about his sex life at all.

I could list for you all the sex acts I don’t want to participate in or witness, but they’re irrelevant to the conversation so I don’t bring them up. And I’m also not saying that I don’t think people who participate in said acts shouldn’t be able to get married, or should be targeted for harassment and beatings, like people often do to gay people when they are homophobic. Until you see people trying to pass laws barring people who pee on each other from getting married, you should probably stop comparing the two.

What’s next, do I need to love the beastiality gang as well. Can I still find that act repulsive?

Do you not understand that homosexuals having sex with each other is consensual whereas beastiality is not?

I find the thought of two guys doing anything romantic, repulsive. I love my dad. I love my brothers, but I don’t want to fuck them or do anything remotely romantic with them. I find it repulsive.

Umm, are you saying that because you’re straight and find straight sex to be ok that you want to fuck your mother/sisters? WTF? We aren’t talking about inbreeding here. Gay people don’t generally sleep with their relatives.

I do not understand what MRAs think they can accomplish by calling lesbians ugly. By definition we do not want to have sex with or pursue romantic relationships with men; ergo, we do not care whether men think we are physically attractive. If the greatest “insult” some puny man can muster is “You’re fat and ugly!” his wit is pathetic indeed. Almost pitiable.

They’re banking on the hope that you bought into the whole, “A woman’s value is in her looks,” propaganda that we’ve been fed since we were born, so that they can cut you at your core. Unfortunately it works on a lot of people by people who they have no sexual or romantic interest in. Like I was just perusing the site thedirty.com today because a friend had mentioned it and I was curious to find what it was all about. A huge aspect of that site is people asking this man if he would sleep with the women that are being posted, and he almost always says no, and then picks the women apart. It’s like, really? What makes this guy’s opinion so special and why do people value it? Who is even trying to attract this douche in the first place? And he comments on people with like 2% body fat and says they have thunder thighs and stuff like that. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

Vanessa Emma Goldman
Vanessa Emma Goldman
8 years ago

that Bernard bozo appears to be wearing…a sweatshirt on his head???? alrighty then! whatever floats yer boat, dude!

Kavette
Kavette
8 years ago

NWO wanting to fuck his mother and or sisters would explain a lot.

blitzgal
8 years ago

It’s written by a former Mormon and is hilarious. Very image-heavy though, so be warned.

I love that one. That’s where I learned that Edward is pretty much Joseph Smith:

Every time SMeyers would write about Edward, I would just boggle. She was drawing from everything we Mormons were taught about Good Ol’ Joe – he was handsome, shockingly so, he could draw you in with just his presence, let alone when he spoke, down to his freaking nose and hair color. HI THERE CREEPY AUTHOR WANTING TO BONE YOUR PROPHET. (I have no problem with bible slash, etc. Just… I don’t think she knows she’s doing it.)

Pecunium
8 years ago

Kavette: NWO wanting to fuck his mother and or sisters would explain a lot.

Would it? I don’t think so. More to the point, that’s not something we can know, and it’s not helpful in dealing with what he says.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Nanasha — “If they think that gay sex *makes* you gay, then how can they explain…Sounds like if that was a choice, it would be a no-contest” — in my experience, that’s when “the devil made him do it” gets tossed out, and why you won’t hear them saying that too loudly in public. And that’s from northeast (USA) baptists, idk wtf more fundamentalist Christians say, probably something even less logical about that holy war the think angels and demons will fight? are fighting? I agree with your actual point (and complain about it with other bi/pan-sexual friends, it makes it too easy to date the apparent “opposite” gender)

katz — “Sunlight killing vampires is from Nosferatu.” — ah ok, thank you for that, I read them both for the same class and things tend to blend together that way.

Linds — fuck, I might have to read twilight just to see how much of the “rules” for the supernatural characters are ripped straight out of white wolf rule books — American werewolves tend to be, usually, Native American or of Native descent…and will often attack whomever is closest the first time they turn into a werewolf (they really can’t help it at that point, learning to control it is A Big Deal in the rulebooks).

It sounds like she took all the good bits of white wolf, ignored the neon red glaring warnings not to try having vampires fall in love because they’re dead and made a shitty romance. Yet still managed to keep enough white wolf to have it turn craptastic, but with glitter instead of doom and gloom >.< I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she did "borrow" from white wolf, Underworld certainly seems to have (my old RP trope went to see it and I *still* can't remember her name because she's Lucita to us…except Lucita's lover is another female vampire)

ithiliana
8 years ago

Totes OT: but WOO HOO!

A nuclear submarine to be crewed entirely by women, bwahahahhahahahahahah!

http://www.themarysue.com/michelle-obama-sponsors-all-female-submarine/

ithiliana
8 years ago

Re Stephanie Meyer’s problematic issues: one of the largest I think (and least covered in the criticism of her work) is “borrowing” the idea of shapechangers from the Quileute nation (which is near Forks, Washington), and twisting it to serve her own purposes, without even a thank you, a disclaimer, or any offer to share the money she made off the books (the Quileute is one of the poorer nations): a textbook example of a white author appropriating indigenous culture.

http://www.seattleartmuseum.org/exhibit/interactives/Quileute/index.html

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20091130/news/311309987

Linds
Linds
8 years ago

@LadyZombie

As far as young adult fiction goes, I hope the Hunger Games trilogy will counteract that somewhat. At least Katniss is a character with her own thoughts and exhibits what free will she can under the circumstances. I know technically Hunger Games fails the Bechdel test, but it comes damn close.

Bwuh? Since when doesn’t The Hunger Games pass the Bechdel Test? Katniss talks to her sister, her mother, Effie Trinket and Rue all about things that are not men. (And that’s just in the first book. There’s also Johanna, Annie Cresta, President Snow and several other minor female charcters whose names I forget that she talks to in later books.)

@Argenti Aertheri
I second what Ilithiana said about cultural appropriation. it’s really blatant. What little Meyer did interestingly, she still fucked up. And White Wolf did it all better anyway. :

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

ithiliana — ARGLEBARGLE that’s so much worse than “borrowing” from an RP company >.< (by like, light years)

"The New Moon werewolves aren't your average, hairy-faced cross between a man and a wolf. The boys "phase" into bear-sized wolves with enough superpowers to kill vampires.

The Quileute have no such legend."

That's the part that reads, to me, like it's straight out of a white wolf rule book, is any of the material in the books actually original?

Also, your off-topic sub is excellent (less excellent is the fact that wtf they were worried about was rape, and the solution is gender segregation, but it's a start I guess)

Sharculese
8 years ago

that post is based on a mistake in the original article that was later corrected. the illinois isn’t going to be all female, but as part of the ceremony michelle obama met with some of the navy’s first female sub officers

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/navy/229741-michelle-obama-sponsors-navys-first-submarine-with-all-female-crew

yeah, they didn’t change the link, but scroll down to the correction

DO NOT read the comments, unless youre a connoisseur of terrible jokes about women drives and pms.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
8 years ago

I guess I figured it didn’t pass the Bechdel test since she didn’t talk to most anybody at length other than Gale, who was male. Nevermind.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Linds — “I second what Ilithiana said about cultural appropriation. it’s really blatant. What little Meyer did interestingly, she still fucked up. And White Wolf did it all better anyway. : ” — I’d missed the appropriation in my attempts to avoid Twilight entirely, agreed that that seems blatant and terrible, and white wolf definitely did it better. They don’t seem to have directly appropriated so much as borrowed from combined sources, the same way the vampire clans are all various vampire myths.

Sharculese — that’s kind of a large thing to screw up. >.< I think I like that better though, assuming they're fixing (or have fixed) at least their system for reporting sexual assault.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

At least in the book, Katniss had quite a long conversation with Rue, which was in part about food, medicine and coal. Did this not happen in the film?

ithiliana
8 years ago

One shared moment about TWILIGHT: a student once told me earnestly that “real vampires don’t sparkle.”

(blinks)

jumbofish
8 years ago

NWO wanting to fuck his mother and or sisters would explain a lot.

Actually it wouldn’t explain anything, nevermind that he never implied that. Even if he did have incestuous feelings that wouldn’t make him the hateful bigot he is because having unusual or unfortunate sexual desires does not make you a bad or hateful person.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

By the way, am I alone in thinking that Twilight image up there looks less like a tender embrace, and more like she’s trying to escape a headlock?

Kavette
Kavette
8 years ago

I disagree Jumbofish

How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ? His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.

Which does explain his hatred towards women to a great extent. It’s self hatred for his feelings projected It’s not even a leap never mind a huge one.

BTW, I was not the first to bring this up.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

ithiliana — could your student have meant traditionally vampires don’t sparkle and have been referencing “real” vampire stories? as compared to the crapfest that is Twilight?

Dracula — if she’s not trying to escape she certainly looks like she’s got wary-face about the whole thing — ala “is this about to be a headlock or not?”

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

One shared moment about TWILIGHT: a student once told me earnestly that “real vampires don’t sparkle.”

(blinks)

That’s not so much an admission that your student thinks vampires are real, but an in-joke in the Anne Rice fandom. (“Whose style of vamps is better?” can be fun sometimes.) 😛

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ?

“Female children” ≠ sisters.

His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.

Or he doesn’t have any sisters. Or he didn’t mention them because they’re women and he therefore can’t say he loves them.

Anyway I’m not seeing this inevitable connection between “has incestuous sexual urges” and “hates everybody.” Can’t he just hate everybody because he’s a regular garden-variety asshole?

jumbofish
8 years ago

His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.

Well he was trying to compare gay male sex to incest to be a homophobic dick. Plus him not saying he was not sexually attracted to his mother and sisters doesn’t mean he was. Lack of saying something does not mean its true and hell you don’t even know he has female siblings. Maybe thats why he didn’t mention them

How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ?

Um being sexually attracted to you siblings or mom is entirely different than being attracted to children. If he was attracted to his siblings he would have been a kid too, which is not pedophilic, and being attracted to his mom is straight up not pedophilic.

BTW, I was not the first to bring this up.

Really? who else said this seriously? People were joking about it but you took it seriously.

You know what this is also not the first time you have jumped to a extreme conclusion about someone based on flimsy support. I don’t like nwo but I am not going to make up shit about him.

jumbofish
8 years ago

“and being attracted to his mom is straight up not pedophilic*”

-In the sense that he is not exhibiting attraction towards a child but an adult here, which is not what pedophilia is

ithiliana
8 years ago

@Argenti: Could be!

But that would have to be added by listener.

@Cliff: I quite enjoyed Anne Rice (up until QUEEN OF THE DAMNED), but darned if I’ve ever been in the fandom. If it was an in-joke it would make sense.

But still…….one of those *blink* moments that often happens in teaching.

I actually had a lot of students in my vampire creative writing class who hated twilight, and others who loved it. Nearly had a full-scale class war on my hands the night we discussed it (the focus of the class was “what are the VARIOUS conventions of vampire narratives” not what is “GOOD” vampire text)–never underestimate the passion of the fans.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Kavettee: Way to drag the level of discourse right down to NWO’s level.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

You know why I love this site? Because you guys will defend NWO from unwarranted bullshit.

Of all people.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

The only thing about “Twilight” and “Sparkle” is the following:

http://boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/My_little_pony_friendship_is_magic_twilight_sparkle.jpeg

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I can’t stand NWO, but I hesitate to speculate anything other than “hates women” as to what drives him.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Hellkell: And it’s pretty easy to infer from his posts that he hates women! The other stuff-no, not so much.

Manjaw the Mighty
Manjaw the Mighty
8 years ago

Sam Uley was not near Emily Young when he first transformed. Sam was engaged to Emily’s cousin Leah Clearwater (who I want to smuggle out of Twilight for being legitimately awesome) when he first fursploded. When he saw Emily for the first time, he “inprinted” on her, and told her that he was her destined one etc etc. Emily said no as she was close to Leah (they were like sisters), at which point Sam got angry and fursploded at her, ripping her face open so badly they described it as a “bear attack” to any and all non-wolves.
Sam then visits Emily in hospital and she takes him in because he’s “so upset” (or she doesn’t want to get her face ripped off again, which is more likely).
Now she’s his muffin-baking fiancee, and when he greets her in New Moon he kisses her scars like he’s proud of them. It’s reading damn close to abusive dick to me.

I know you’re having a different discussion now, but when I read this and realized that this passes for an appropriate and “romantic” portrayal of a relationship in media aggressively marketed to tween girls, I became so enraged that I embedded my axe deep into the wall. Now I have a lot of explaining to do both to my neighbors and to the person I’m subletting from.

Morgan
Morgan
8 years ago

You’re right, David, I couldn’t watch that horrendous video through to the end, but give me some credit, I managed to get 4:15 minutes in. Mostly, it was just confused rambling.

And normally, I don’t find posters of Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson to be all that cute, but that modified one…I don’t know, some how she, at least, looked cute, maybe for the first and only time, in her Bella persona. It’s probably wrong to think that, too, when that poster was turned into such utter bollocks.

Manjaw the Mighty
Manjaw the Mighty
8 years ago
PsychoDan
PsychoDan
8 years ago

On a sidenote, I’m NOT bothered by the fact that vampires sparkle in sunlight. I mean, there are no sacred rules for writing vampires that all writers are obliged to follow. It’s already been pointed out that Dracula (as well as eighteen century vampire Carmilla) wasn’t hurt by sunlight, they only lost some magical powers in the sun. Nowadays, almost all vampires are. Some vampires are hurt by religious symbols, both Dracula and Carmilla and other vampires at that time were, but nowadays it seems more common for vampires to have no problem with crucifixes and stuff. The only thing all vampires seem to have in common over the centuries is that they need to get blood from some source (although some need human blood, others can live on animal blood, some need blood from a living being, others can live on “dead” blood etc), and they don’t age and die like people do. Except for that, it varies.

I don’t think sparkly vampires are inherently problematic, but it’s a good example of why Meyer’s vampires are so uninteresting: they’re basically flawless. Generally, one of the things that makes vampires-as-protagonists fiction interesting is exploring the drawbacks of vampirism along with its more obvious benefits, and Twilight vampires just don’t seem to have any. That their greatest weakness is that sunlight makes them extra-super-pretty, and that might break their masquerade, is a good representation of all that. (I’ve only really sort of skimmed through Twilight, since it didn’t interest me at all, but Bella’s magical extra-tastiness seemed like the only time the vampire’s wrestled with their hunger, there was never any immortality angst, and despite the terrible burden of their sparkliness, it never actually hampers them in any significant way, and all the other classical vampire weaknesses are written off as myth.)

Pecunium
8 years ago

Kavette: How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ? His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.

Which does explain his hatred towards women to a great extent. It’s self hatred for his feelings projected It’s not even a leap never mind a huge one.

And (assuming you have the training/experience to do it) you’ve had face to face conversations with him to verify that your leap is justified?

I fail to see how having desires for children/any woman whom he thinks is sexy = repressed desire for his mother/putative female siblings.

Leaping to the idea this is a combined avoidant behavior of transference and projection to deal with his personal guilt for feelings he thinks are wrong shameful is just that, a leap. It’s a pretty large leap, esp. as you have not had the face to face time to substantiate your assertion that, “it’s not even a leap never mind a huge one”.

Because absent the training, and experience, and face time, it’s more than a leap, it’s pulling it out of your ass.

Pecunium
8 years ago

LBT: You know why I love this site? Because you guys will defend NWO from unwarranted bullshit.

Of all people.

Thanks, but I’d like to think anyplace which has community would do the same. NWO is a sad and pathetic man. A liar and a hypocrite and hateful and all manner of other unpleasant things, but he’s a person, and as such deserves to be treated with level of respect and decency. I have not always done this to the level I ought, but I try.

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

The problem with his statement was that he associated being gay with wanting to sleep with his male relatives. The idea that he is not gay because he doesn’t want to sleep with his father and brother and finds that gross can lead to the assumption that he knows he’s straight because he does want to sleep with his female relatives and that doing so is not gross.

I mean, whether or not he does want to sleep with his female relatives is not something that we can know without him stating so, but people assuming that’s what he meant is kinda on him for taking it there in the first place. He’s the one attempting to associate being gay with being incestuous, thus leading me to have absolutely no respect for him and his “opinions.”

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

PsychoDan: Agreed! Protagonists should always have some kind of weakness.

I liked that vampires in Let the Right One in MUST drink human blood for that reason… It really makes vampirism a CURSE, not an awesome way to gain superpowers.