Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
Okay, now NWO is comparing homosexual sex to eating dog shit. I second banning him.
@fembot
if we banned owlslave we’d just be inflicting him on the huffington post comments section. which, now that i think about it… is better than they deserve.
but seriously, his brand of hatred is so comically obtuse that it’s more than made up for by superdogs, ‘flouride’ shots, etc.
@Argenti Aertheri
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of fellatio is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of cunnilngus is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of beastiality is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act being pissed on is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of being shit on is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act eating used tampons is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act eating warm shit is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act drinking refrigerated piss is a hater.
If you find any of these act’s repulsive it is hate speech. To each his/her own isn’t enough, you must profess your love of the act.
I do hope I’ve made my point.
NWO (and Sharculese) — “part of his self-created origin story is that back when he was homeless … he … avoid[ed] having to suck dick for food.” — if that’s remotely true, then I want to point out that survival sex isn’t really consensual sex. It’s nothing like a consensual relationship between members of any gender in other words.
Sharculese — “but owlslave has made it clear that in his case his disgust for homosexuality is so strong that he wouldnt perform a homosexual act to save his life” — you know, that too is fine, it is his life to not save. I think we all have a line we wouldn’t cross even to save our own lives, but if it’s an act that people regularly consent to, and is legal, then I just can’t understand being repulsed by people who are consenting to it. I can see the argument for “I’d rather die than be raped” though, and performing sex to save your life? Rape in every state I know of if it’s a direct threat on your life — and not, as was the case in NWO’s history, the indirect threat of starving if he didn’t resort to prostitution (indirect threats are not legal rape, despite being ethically full of shit).
David — “I pretty much never see them having sex” — wait, you sometimes do see gay sex in public?!
I do wonder how gay kissing members of my (biological) gender is…I don’t dare speculate on what kissing other genderqueer folks would be by NWO.
0.1% committed to gay rights!
Now, see, this is what they need on their bumper stickers.
@David Futrelle
“NWO, can you tell me what the defining act is that makes a gay person gay? I live in a heavily gay neighborhood, so I see gay people doing gay things all the time: eating lunch, shopping, walking dogs.
Those are all gay acts, because the people doing them are gay.”
Dave, you really don’t deserve an answer for this statement. Are they rapist acts as well? Rapists also eat and walk dogs. Are they pedophile acts, they eat and walk dogs as well. How about murderers? Thieves? Extortionists? Arsonists?
Do you really think that little of my intelligence?
@argenti
that’s not quite what i meant. like i felt i made it clear that if someones line is not exchanging sex for survival that is their line. the point is that in owlslave’s mythology, he was breaking into stores rather than doing anything gay, and this isn’t a personal preference, it’s a noble virtue.
@Shaenon
“0.1% committed to gay rights!”
Everyone has the right to life, freedom, property and vote. No one has the right to have what they do be loved and endorsed. Do they have the right to life, freedom, property and vote? I guess they have the same rights as me. Gay rights, the same as mine. I find the act repulsive. A hate speech law infringes on my right to freedom, I now have less rights.
David – I also wonder… is having sex with a man gay? Is having sex with a woman gay?
I mean, if either of these is an Inherently Gay act, it shouldn’t matter who does it, right?
I’m not trying to prove homosexuality doesn’t exist (obviously), but it seems weird that the act of “sex with a man” is only wrong and gross when certain people do it.
…Honestly, though, I think NWO is disgusted by ALL sex, so he might be surprisingly equitable on this one.
So now men die in wars so that women can have cheaper gasoline? What will they come up with next?
No, any woman who doesn’t like these things has a preference. Any woman who thinks no one should do these things and people who do shouldn’t have the same rights as everyone else because of it, is a hater.
NWO, if someone finds the thought of interracial sex “repulsive,” I would have no trouble describing that person as racist. (Of course, there are people who love interracial sex who are also racist, but that’s a whole other issue.)
*disclaimer* With the exception of bestiality all those things are between consenting adults and should be legal. Bestiality is legal in a disturbingly large number of states, in fact legal in more states than same sex marriage which makes me very, very sad.
it’s not only that we think very little of your intelligence, it’s also that we think very much of your violent, delusional anger
How can this be seen as anything BUT beautiful?
Yeah, NWOslave, you can’t get married because gay people can. Suuuuurrrrre.
(Maybe NWOslave thinks the gay men are marrying all the straight women and leaving none for him?)
owlslave, should it be illegal for me to call you an angry whiner who blames external forces for his life because hes too much of a coward to take responsibility for your decisions? i need a yes or no, but just a yes or no. don’t try to equivocate.
You want a yes or no from Slavey, we’ll be here all night. 😛
Actually, yeah, a woman telling OTHER PEOPLE they aren’t allowed to eat tampons or shit or whatever is a hater.
@cliff
that’s his escape hatch. he’s not saying you’re not allowed to be gay, youre just not allowed to complain when he threatens to beat you senseless for it.
I added that lovely quote from Elam to the post.
As well as this, er, innovative explanation for homophobia against gay men:
He doesn’t need an explanation for homophobia against “lesbobos,” apparently they’re just naturally hateable and hiliarious.
link for that last quote: http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/attacking-male-sexuality/#comment-98558
“If you find any of these act’s repulsive it is hate speech. To each his/her own isn’t enough, you must profess your love of the act.
I do hope I’ve made my point.”
Not nearly as well as Noadi did. (With follow up note about bestiality being illegal)
That’s the difference you’re missing here, you’re repulsed by other people engaging in legal, consensual acts. Wtf do you care what other people get off on as long as it’s legal? I’m not one for golden showers, if you are, more power to you, just don’t expect me to join you. (That a general you NWO, not you personally, though, if golden showers are your thing, I don’t care either way, you have fun too I guess)
“A hate speech law infringes on my right to freedom, I now have less rights.”
Citation on this hate speech law, because the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act specifically only applies in cases where there’s a crime motivated by “gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability” — in other words, if you beat me up because you got confused as to what gender I am, it’s extra illegal, but that shit ass video above (Girls Guys Girls) is legal (terrible, but legal).
We may think you’re being an asshole, or even that you fundamentally are an asshole, but we do not have the power to enforce any punishment on you (David could ban you, that is literally the worst thing anyone here could do to you) — it’s only a violation of the first amendment if it comes from the government, not private citizens, so you can continue saying homophobic shit until you’re blue in the face, and we can continue calling you a homophobe until we’re all blue in the face and no one’s committed a crime or infringed on anyone’s rights.
It would be nice though if you’d care what other people are doing for sexytimes, as long as it’s legal.
Sharculese — I wasn’t disagreeing with you but emphasizing the point for NWO (who seems to be ignoring it, but maybe he’s caught in mod) — that comment is poorly split between what’s a reply to you, and what’s directed at NWO, my apologies for the confusion.
As usual, MRAs weak ass slur filled protestations of not being bigots totally fail to convince anyone.