Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
I completely agree, and can think of countless examples of the regulars here practicing what’s being preached – even our regular trolls have been treated with respect way beyond anything they’ve offered in return (I’m thinking of MRAL and Antz in particular).
Quite aside from it being the decent thing to do in general, it also helps give the lie to those idiots who call Manboobz “a hate site”.
I can’t stand NWO, but I hesitate to speculate anything other than “hates women” as to what drives him.
The way the books are written makes it worse. It’s in first-person, so it lacks the emotional distance that third-person has. Instead of “Bella thinks that…” and “Bella feels…” you get “I think that…” and “I feel…” Combine that with Bella having very little personality, thus making it easy to project yourself onto her. It’s very good propaganda for abuse. When I was younger I read them and started being lulled – it wasn’t until I saw the first film that I realised “gods, this is bad.”
What’s disturbing is that Meyer thinks this is ‘romantic’. Edward is an abusive ****wad from the start, and he’s her ‘ideal man’. Jacob only really began to become a romantic prospect from New Moon onwards – at the suggestion of Meyer’s editor – and it’s in this book that he begins to change from “sweet boy next door” into “yet another abusive ****wad”.
^Swirling thoughts of the Pink Ghetto and Pettycoat Junction…
spelled petticoat wrong, damn.
So… I’m back… why Petticoat Junction you may wonder?
Because I meant operation Petticoat.
DAMN IT.
Super late reply here, but argh Twilight! Yeah, it’s not that I have massive issue with sparkly vampires (heck, isn’t that basically white wolf’s Presence?) but that it’s a damned love story, and I’ve read exactly one good vampire love story, and it’s a tragedy, not a romance. The Silver Kiss, though, warning, I was like 16 when I read it, so it might actually suck >.<
creativewritingstudent — you're welcome to just call Edward an abusive fuckwad, fuck won't get you put in mod or anything.
More things I love about manboobz, my potty mouth doesn't get me stuck in mod!
And Re: NWO — I'll extrapolate as far as saying he either doesn't have sisters, or doesn't like them much, and that either his mother wasn't in the picture, or he doesn't like her much, but that's the limit to that; he may just have not thought his female relatives worth mentioning, he doesn't doubt that men and women can love each other I guess? I think his initial comment was just that that's the only sort of love he can picture two men having; not really surprisingly if he's 100% straight I guess?
And that's fine NWO, that you don't understand how they could have romantic love, because you couldn't, nobody is calling that homophobic, it's calling homosexuals repulsive that's the problem.
I just didn’t want to associate Twilight with the noble and awesome acts of fucking…
NWO has said in so many words that he hates gay people, trans people, non-white and wrong-kind-of-white-people, women who have sex and women who don’t have sex, women who have jobs and women who don’t have jobs, that he thinks women should be beaten in the street and teenagers should be raped, and we have to make up things that might make him seem gross?
SERIOUSLY PEOPLE.
creativewritingstudent — that’s more a problem with the many uses of the word than with Twilight, but whoops on my part all the same!
Also keep in mind that NWO does exactly that all the time, which is part of what makes him a contemptible asshole.
Do we really wanna play by his rules?
NWO suggested I want to fuck my parents and siblings, I don’t see how it is the slightest bit out of line for people to joke as a response about him wanting to fuck his.
Cliff Pervocracy
Don’t forget the <Jews Rothchilds and Rothchildettes.
@Agenti Aertheri – dw, I know that’s the conclusion most people would spring to. I am trying to temper my cussin’ though, because I have a six-year-old cousin. It’s not easy.
Besides, the whole abstinence thing in Twilight is weird as hell. The reason they give for abstaining from sex in the first books is NOT that sex before marriage is evil, but that Edward is super-strong and would seriously injure Bella. And that actually MAKES SENSE; I’ve always wondered about superstrong superheroes dating normal humans, and how they could ever have sex with each other… it’s not like anybody have a lot of control over exactly how hard they push when they’re approaching orgasm, so… makes sense.
The WEIRD thing is that it’s suddenly OKAY for them to have sex once they’re married! I mean, he’s STILL superstrong! She’s STILL just an ordinary human being!
Twilight is like an onion hole of all that can be wrong in relationship, and all that can be wrong in a vampire story. There are endless layers of wrongness.
*is like an onion of all
Ever read “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex”?
@MollyRen. No, I hadn’t. Thanks for sharing though. *lol*
I gotta tell ya, this really puts Superman’s “world made of cardboard” speech to Darksied in the Justice League cartoon into a much different perspective.
Dvärghundspossen: I’ve always wondered about superstrong superheroes dating normal humans, and how they could ever have sex with each other… it’s not like anybody have a lot of control over exactly how hard they push when they’re approaching orgasm, so… makes sense.
You might like to read “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex” by Larry Niven, who was explaining why Lois Lane and Superman could never have sex, much less children.
Which I see Molly has beaten me to the punch on. Larry was spot on with a lot of that.
“Twilight is like an onion hole of all that can be wrong in relationship, and all that can be wrong in a vampire story. There are endless layers of wrongness.”
What’s the matter, can’t accept that your Western RadFem notions of Love/Sex/Romance/Eroticism/etc isn’t Universal Standard for Homo Sapiens?
Btw, in Frank Miller’s “the Dark Night Strikes Again” Superman and Wonderwoman are a couple and have a teenage daughter. In one scene she talks relationships with her dad, and he gives her his number one advice; Never do it with a terran, they’re way too fragile.
Anyway, in the first Twilight book it’s stated that Edward might break Bella’s bones or even kill her if they’d tried to fuck, due to his superstrength. Once they’re married all that happens is that she’s beaten black and blue and passes out from fucking Edward, she isn’t put in hospital and she doesn’t die… So somehow marriage softens the blows.
I certainly can and do, ABNOY, it’s just I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy to be in such unhealthy relationship. If say cancer is bad, do you think that means everybody who isn’t to my image is sick?
You’re a weird troll. It sounds like you maybe want to be offensive, but my main emotion at reading you is ‘puzzled’.