Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
At least in the book, Katniss had quite a long conversation with Rue, which was in part about food, medicine and coal. Did this not happen in the film?
One shared moment about TWILIGHT: a student once told me earnestly that “real vampires don’t sparkle.”
(blinks)
Actually it wouldn’t explain anything, nevermind that he never implied that. Even if he did have incestuous feelings that wouldn’t make him the hateful bigot he is because having unusual or unfortunate sexual desires does not make you a bad or hateful person.
By the way, am I alone in thinking that Twilight image up there looks less like a tender embrace, and more like she’s trying to escape a headlock?
I disagree Jumbofish
How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ? His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.
Which does explain his hatred towards women to a great extent. It’s self hatred for his feelings projected It’s not even a leap never mind a huge one.
BTW, I was not the first to bring this up.
ithiliana — could your student have meant traditionally vampires don’t sparkle and have been referencing “real” vampire stories? as compared to the crapfest that is Twilight?
Dracula — if she’s not trying to escape she certainly looks like she’s got wary-face about the whole thing — ala “is this about to be a headlock or not?”
That’s not so much an admission that your student thinks vampires are real, but an in-joke in the Anne Rice fandom. (“Whose style of vamps is better?” can be fun sometimes.) 😛
“Female children” ≠ sisters.
Or he doesn’t have any sisters. Or he didn’t mention them because they’re women and he therefore can’t say he loves them.
Anyway I’m not seeing this inevitable connection between “has incestuous sexual urges” and “hates everybody.” Can’t he just hate everybody because he’s a regular garden-variety asshole?
Well he was trying to compare gay male sex to incest to be a homophobic dick. Plus him not saying he was not sexually attracted to his mother and sisters doesn’t mean he was. Lack of saying something does not mean its true and hell you don’t even know he has female siblings. Maybe thats why he didn’t mention them
Um being sexually attracted to you siblings or mom is entirely different than being attracted to children. If he was attracted to his siblings he would have been a kid too, which is not pedophilic, and being attracted to his mom is straight up not pedophilic.
Really? who else said this seriously? People were joking about it but you took it seriously.
You know what this is also not the first time you have jumped to a extreme conclusion about someone based on flimsy support. I don’t like nwo but I am not going to make up shit about him.
“and being attracted to his mom is straight up not pedophilic*”
-In the sense that he is not exhibiting attraction towards a child but an adult here, which is not what pedophilia is
@Argenti: Could be!
But that would have to be added by listener.
@Cliff: I quite enjoyed Anne Rice (up until QUEEN OF THE DAMNED), but darned if I’ve ever been in the fandom. If it was an in-joke it would make sense.
But still…….one of those *blink* moments that often happens in teaching.
I actually had a lot of students in my vampire creative writing class who hated twilight, and others who loved it. Nearly had a full-scale class war on my hands the night we discussed it (the focus of the class was “what are the VARIOUS conventions of vampire narratives” not what is “GOOD” vampire text)–never underestimate the passion of the fans.
There’s plenty to dislike about NOW already without resorting to speculation. Kavette, there’s no evidence at all for what you’re saying about him.
@Kavettee: Way to drag the level of discourse right down to NWO’s level.
You know why I love this site? Because you guys will defend NWO from unwarranted bullshit.
Of all people.
The only thing about “Twilight” and “Sparkle” is the following:
http://boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/My_little_pony_friendship_is_magic_twilight_sparkle.jpeg
I can’t stand NWO, but I hesitate to speculate anything other than “hates women” as to what drives him.
@Hellkell: And it’s pretty easy to infer from his posts that he hates women! The other stuff-no, not so much.
I know you’re having a different discussion now, but when I read this and realized that this passes for an appropriate and “romantic” portrayal of a relationship in media aggressively marketed to tween girls, I became so enraged that I embedded my axe deep into the wall. Now I have a lot of explaining to do both to my neighbors and to the person I’m subletting from.
You’re right, David, I couldn’t watch that horrendous video through to the end, but give me some credit, I managed to get 4:15 minutes in. Mostly, it was just confused rambling.
And normally, I don’t find posters of Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson to be all that cute, but that modified one…I don’t know, some how she, at least, looked cute, maybe for the first and only time, in her Bella persona. It’s probably wrong to think that, too, when that poster was turned into such utter bollocks.
http://heygirlitiskstew.tumblr.com/
I don’t think sparkly vampires are inherently problematic, but it’s a good example of why Meyer’s vampires are so uninteresting: they’re basically flawless. Generally, one of the things that makes vampires-as-protagonists fiction interesting is exploring the drawbacks of vampirism along with its more obvious benefits, and Twilight vampires just don’t seem to have any. That their greatest weakness is that sunlight makes them extra-super-pretty, and that might break their masquerade, is a good representation of all that. (I’ve only really sort of skimmed through Twilight, since it didn’t interest me at all, but Bella’s magical extra-tastiness seemed like the only time the vampire’s wrestled with their hunger, there was never any immortality angst, and despite the terrible burden of their sparkliness, it never actually hampers them in any significant way, and all the other classical vampire weaknesses are written off as myth.)
Kavette: How many posts has he made complaining about female children tempting him and all men by wearing bathing suits etc. ? His post saying that he loves his brothers and father but is not sexually excited by them (that would be gross) leads me to conclude that he was/is sexually excited by his female siblings.
Which does explain his hatred towards women to a great extent. It’s self hatred for his feelings projected It’s not even a leap never mind a huge one.
And (assuming you have the training/experience to do it) you’ve had face to face conversations with him to verify that your leap is justified?
I fail to see how having desires for children/any woman whom he thinks is sexy = repressed desire for his mother/putative female siblings.
Leaping to the idea this is a combined avoidant behavior of transference and projection to deal with his personal guilt for feelings he thinks are wrong shameful is just that, a leap. It’s a pretty large leap, esp. as you have not had the face to face time to substantiate your assertion that, “it’s not even a leap never mind a huge one”.
Because absent the training, and experience, and face time, it’s more than a leap, it’s pulling it out of your ass.
LBT: You know why I love this site? Because you guys will defend NWO from unwarranted bullshit.
Of all people.
Thanks, but I’d like to think anyplace which has community would do the same. NWO is a sad and pathetic man. A liar and a hypocrite and hateful and all manner of other unpleasant things, but he’s a person, and as such deserves to be treated with level of respect and decency. I have not always done this to the level I ought, but I try.
The problem with his statement was that he associated being gay with wanting to sleep with his male relatives. The idea that he is not gay because he doesn’t want to sleep with his father and brother and finds that gross can lead to the assumption that he knows he’s straight because he does want to sleep with his female relatives and that doing so is not gross.
I mean, whether or not he does want to sleep with his female relatives is not something that we can know without him stating so, but people assuming that’s what he meant is kinda on him for taking it there in the first place. He’s the one attempting to associate being gay with being incestuous, thus leading me to have absolutely no respect for him and his “opinions.”
PsychoDan: Agreed! Protagonists should always have some kind of weakness.
I liked that vampires in Let the Right One in MUST drink human blood for that reason… It really makes vampirism a CURSE, not an awesome way to gain superpowers.