Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
You mentioned Twilight and roused the beast.
Linds –
Sam Uley was not near Emily Young when he first transformed. Sam was engaged to Emily’s cousin Leah Clearwater (who I want to smuggle out of Twilight for being legitimately awesome) when he first fursploded. When he saw Emily for the first time, he “inprinted” on her, and told her that he was her destined one etc etc. Emily said no as she was close to Leah (they were like sisters), at which point Sam got angry and fursploded at her, ripping her face open so badly they described it as a “bear attack” to any and all non-wolves.
Sam then visits Emily in hospital and she takes him in because he’s “so upset” (or she doesn’t want to get her face ripped off again, which is more likely).
Now she’s his muffin-baking fiancee, and when he greets her in New Moon he kisses her scars like he’s proud of them. It’s reading damn close to abusive dick to me.
And there’s the treatment of Leah in this as well. Leah, whose first fursplosion lead to her father’s fatal heart attack, lost her fiancee and cousin (but still has to stand up in their wedding – I have heard some people interpret this as Emily wanting Leah to be there to protect her if Sam attacks her again) but still has to listen in on Sam’s loveydovey thoughts about Emily. And gets called a “bitter harpy”. And Jacob, who has gone through much less than she has, gets showered with sympathy because he’s a man.
And then Meyer outright says that Sam must have imprinted on Emily because Leah is infertile and ‘not really a woman’.
I have spent the last few years almost professionally *hating* Twilight. Not that Twilight-hater is a career, but if it was, I would probably get that job.
If you’d like a hilarious and fairly thorough run-down of the Twilight books, I recommend this:
http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html (part one, it links to the other three)
It’s written by a former Mormon and is hilarious. Very image-heavy though, so be warned.
DARKIES?
LOL, a lot of comments had been made since what I thought my reply would immediately follow so now that comment looks weird.
As further illustration of how vampires can differ (and as further evidence of me being an insufferable know-it-all about books I love); in the novel Dracula himself did age. Or at least, when he initially meets with Harker he appears as an elderly man.
When Harker discovers him resting in his coffin (after having fed), Harker described the Count as having had his “youth half renewed”, his hair changed from white to iron-grey. Later, when he sees him again, he looks even younger.
Obviously suggesting that Dracula ages if he doesn’t feed. He had probably been abstaining deliberately in anticipation of the meeting, because Harker would likely have been more suspicious of a young man living in a remote, decaying ruin.
Regarding the OP, did anybody notice that Jade Michael himself shows up I the comments?
Well shucks, Jade, maybe you should take down all the homophobic “work” on the 90s-style website you run, then.
I don’t understand Twilight. I really don’t. A lot of people have tried to explain it to me but I just end up going “Huh?” or “Ew” or “Oh what the fuck?!” I tried watching the first movie but shut it off after a half hour.
I’m not surprised that MRAs have latched onto it as proof that 1) women are attracted to assholes who treat them like shit, 2) women secretly know that they are nothing without a man. It’s the same as when they were banging on and on and on about Sex in the City and how it was proof that 1) all women are hypergamous sluts 2) women are vain, shallow, and only interested in a man’s finances, and 3) women are attracted to assholes who treat them like shit.
And honestly, it is worrying that Twilight is so popular among teenaged girls. As far as young adult fiction goes, I hope the Hunger Games trilogy will counteract that somewhat. At least Katniss is a character with her own thoughts and exhibits what free will she can under the circumstances. I know technically Hunger Games fails the Bechdel test, but it comes damn close.
tl/dr – MRAs love Twilight.
According to the film Santo vs the Vampire Women, a vampire’s greatest weakness is their vulnerability to wrestling.
we could even learn a thing or two from them
*looks at the results of AIDS activism, removal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and increasing success at legalizing same-sex marriage in individual states*
I doubt the MRA could learn anything from gay activism mostly because the MRA seems incapable of learning not to mention aren’t really in the same marginalized status as GLBT activists.
Oops, only the first line should be italicized.
Funny, despite the widespread discrimination that gay people face in society, I don’t see gay people spamming Internet forums threatening to fuck shit up and inflict pain on their opposition. Clearly their oppression pales in comparison to the oppression of poor MRAs.
I remember going to watch the first movie with a girlfriend and coming to the conclusion that it was secretly a kink movie, because they were all “No sex, just biting!” How wrong I was…
NWO, we’re not calling you a homophobe because you “find gay sex to be repulsive,” but because, when talking about gay people in general, the first thing you say is how repulsed you are by the sex life of theirs that you don’t even have to witness. You see a gay man and your mind goes straight to, “Eww, he has anal sex with another man,” unlike when you see a straight man, and don’t think about his sex life at all.
I could list for you all the sex acts I don’t want to participate in or witness, but they’re irrelevant to the conversation so I don’t bring them up. And I’m also not saying that I don’t think people who participate in said acts shouldn’t be able to get married, or should be targeted for harassment and beatings, like people often do to gay people when they are homophobic. Until you see people trying to pass laws barring people who pee on each other from getting married, you should probably stop comparing the two.
Do you not understand that homosexuals having sex with each other is consensual whereas beastiality is not?
Umm, are you saying that because you’re straight and find straight sex to be ok that you want to fuck your mother/sisters? WTF? We aren’t talking about inbreeding here. Gay people don’t generally sleep with their relatives.
They’re banking on the hope that you bought into the whole, “A woman’s value is in her looks,” propaganda that we’ve been fed since we were born, so that they can cut you at your core. Unfortunately it works on a lot of people by people who they have no sexual or romantic interest in. Like I was just perusing the site thedirty.com today because a friend had mentioned it and I was curious to find what it was all about. A huge aspect of that site is people asking this man if he would sleep with the women that are being posted, and he almost always says no, and then picks the women apart. It’s like, really? What makes this guy’s opinion so special and why do people value it? Who is even trying to attract this douche in the first place? And he comments on people with like 2% body fat and says they have thunder thighs and stuff like that. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
that Bernard bozo appears to be wearing…a sweatshirt on his head???? alrighty then! whatever floats yer boat, dude!
NWO wanting to fuck his mother and or sisters would explain a lot.
I love that one. That’s where I learned that Edward is pretty much Joseph Smith:
Kavette: NWO wanting to fuck his mother and or sisters would explain a lot.
Would it? I don’t think so. More to the point, that’s not something we can know, and it’s not helpful in dealing with what he says.
Nanasha — “If they think that gay sex *makes* you gay, then how can they explain…Sounds like if that was a choice, it would be a no-contest” — in my experience, that’s when “the devil made him do it” gets tossed out, and why you won’t hear them saying that too loudly in public. And that’s from northeast (USA) baptists, idk wtf more fundamentalist Christians say, probably something even less logical about that holy war the think angels and demons will fight? are fighting? I agree with your actual point (and complain about it with other bi/pan-sexual friends, it makes it too easy to date the apparent “opposite” gender)
katz — “Sunlight killing vampires is from Nosferatu.” — ah ok, thank you for that, I read them both for the same class and things tend to blend together that way.
Linds — fuck, I might have to read twilight just to see how much of the “rules” for the supernatural characters are ripped straight out of white wolf rule books — American werewolves tend to be, usually, Native American or of Native descent…and will often attack whomever is closest the first time they turn into a werewolf (they really can’t help it at that point, learning to control it is A Big Deal in the rulebooks).
It sounds like she took all the good bits of white wolf, ignored the neon red glaring warnings not to try having vampires fall in love because they’re dead and made a shitty romance. Yet still managed to keep enough white wolf to have it turn craptastic, but with glitter instead of doom and gloom >.< I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she did "borrow" from white wolf, Underworld certainly seems to have (my old RP trope went to see it and I *still* can't remember her name because she's Lucita to us…except Lucita's lover is another female vampire)
Totes OT: but WOO HOO!
A nuclear submarine to be crewed entirely by women, bwahahahhahahahahahah!
http://www.themarysue.com/michelle-obama-sponsors-all-female-submarine/
Re Stephanie Meyer’s problematic issues: one of the largest I think (and least covered in the criticism of her work) is “borrowing” the idea of shapechangers from the Quileute nation (which is near Forks, Washington), and twisting it to serve her own purposes, without even a thank you, a disclaimer, or any offer to share the money she made off the books (the Quileute is one of the poorer nations): a textbook example of a white author appropriating indigenous culture.
http://www.seattleartmuseum.org/exhibit/interactives/Quileute/index.html
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20091130/news/311309987
@LadyZombie
Bwuh? Since when doesn’t The Hunger Games pass the Bechdel Test? Katniss talks to her sister, her mother, Effie Trinket and Rue all about things that are not men. (And that’s just in the first book. There’s also Johanna, Annie Cresta, President Snow and several other minor female charcters whose names I forget that she talks to in later books.)
@Argenti Aertheri
I second what Ilithiana said about cultural appropriation. it’s really blatant. What little Meyer did interestingly, she still fucked up. And White Wolf did it all better anyway. :
ithiliana — ARGLEBARGLE that’s so much worse than “borrowing” from an RP company >.< (by like, light years)
"The New Moon werewolves aren't your average, hairy-faced cross between a man and a wolf. The boys "phase" into bear-sized wolves with enough superpowers to kill vampires.
…
The Quileute have no such legend."
That's the part that reads, to me, like it's straight out of a white wolf rule book, is any of the material in the books actually original?
Also, your off-topic sub is excellent (less excellent is the fact that wtf they were worried about was rape, and the solution is gender segregation, but it's a start I guess)
that post is based on a mistake in the original article that was later corrected. the illinois isn’t going to be all female, but as part of the ceremony michelle obama met with some of the navy’s first female sub officers
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/navy/229741-michelle-obama-sponsors-navys-first-submarine-with-all-female-crew
yeah, they didn’t change the link, but scroll down to the correction
DO NOT read the comments, unless youre a connoisseur of terrible jokes about women drives and pms.
I guess I figured it didn’t pass the Bechdel test since she didn’t talk to most anybody at length other than Gale, who was male. Nevermind.
Linds — “I second what Ilithiana said about cultural appropriation. it’s really blatant. What little Meyer did interestingly, she still fucked up. And White Wolf did it all better anyway. : ” — I’d missed the appropriation in my attempts to avoid Twilight entirely, agreed that that seems blatant and terrible, and white wolf definitely did it better. They don’t seem to have directly appropriated so much as borrowed from combined sources, the same way the vampire clans are all various vampire myths.
Sharculese — that’s kind of a large thing to screw up. >.< I think I like that better though, assuming they're fixing (or have fixed) at least their system for reporting sexual assault.