Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
why the fuck does he write like this. stylistically there is not a single element of this sentence that is not completely fucked.
JtO is blind to how men like him police other men’s sexuality far more than women. He’s still doing it in this post.
Stylistically Fucked should be the MRM’s motto.
So “that” is actually what hormones does (and age?) do to a person. And it doesn’t really matter if you find Chaz ugly now because:
– people don’t need your approval, you POS.
– I’m pretty sure Chaz like his body much more in picture 2 than 1.
– IIRC, Chaz used to identify as a lesbian. That makes the sentence extra
– I don’t think lesbians nor straight men care for the opinion of sexist, homophobic and transphobic men. Nobody should of course, but those are really not at-risk groups.
I like how he writes “or I suppose” when including transsexual men. I can picture him biting his lip and angrily punching the words out on his keyboard because he just can’t fully accept them as men, but he has to include them if he wants to be seen as inclusive.
I had to do a double-take when I saw that Chapin guy. He LOOKS exactly like one of my old teachers/Mom’s friend’s husband. Though it is clearly not him since he is happily married and has two granddaughters he adores/
Is Bernard Chapin wearing pants on his head while making his youtube fame pretending to be a woman? A cheap wig is like $20, go buy one…
Kyrie — “IIRC, Chaz used to identify as a lesbian. That makes the sentence extra” — extra wrong? you seem to have dropped a word
There’s his problem, he hasn’t yet realized they really aren’t decent human beings.
i love the tag line on that twilight poster ‘an extremely unrealistic fantasy for women’ vampires arent real? never would have guessed.
that’s the first time ive ever seen twilight criticized for giving bella too much agency
Thing is, as Cliff mentioned in another thread, Chaz has said some problematic thing about women, so he and JtO may have more in common than not.
ah, never mind that
Lovely set of misogyny, racism and “oh maybe I’ll be homophobic later” — but this is his definition of a decent human being?
*shudder* I made it through enough of “Girls Guys Girls” to know I apparently scare children as much as a rottweiler (this might be true, as I had a rottie once, sweetest dog ever, all she wanted was her ears rubbed, everyone loved her)
Yeah, they definitely need to oust that shit to claim not to have some serious transphobia // gender binary enforcement.
Paul Elam in the comments…
0.1% committed to gay rights! AVfM is so inclusive.
Is he mad that I pegged it with that West Side Highway wisecrack the other day? (Now he’s mad that I just talked about “pegging it”.)
Seriously, though I have encountered a certain personality amongst gay guys prone to misogyny, most of the gay men I know don’t seem very interested in sitting around obsessing over the evils of women/feminism. Does JohnTheOther identify as gay? What you’re describing, my feeling of it doesn’t seem like it’s written by anyone with familiarity with the LGBTQ community, more like someone attempting to pander to the gay men to rope them into the MRA movement.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human?
I guess…when the MRA’s refer to straight men who don’t agree with their world views as “white knights”, “manginas”, etc.???
Argenti, thaks for the correction.
My ears bled listening to that “song”. It’s like he heard a poor man’s CL Smooth, and decided to do a shitty imitation of that
Wait, what? Men die driving kids to soccer games?
“…I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.”
His definition of gay is…what?! Implications that gay men aren’t normal, combined with blaming women? society? for “leading [them] astray”
“Seriously, though I have encountered a certain personality amongst gay guys prone to misogyny, most of the gay men I know don’t seem very interested in sitting around obsessing over the evils of women/feminism.”
I know the type you mean, and I’ve never found them particularly interested in women in any sense, they hold some fucked up views, but generally just shrug at the existence of women — certainly weren’t “led astray” by women, I’m pretty sure the misogynistic gay men would be even more offended by that than most gay men.
Kyrie — no problem, just glad I guessed correctly (or correct enough you aren’t correcting me)
For everyone else appalled by that “Girls Guys Girls” may I suggest Emilie Autumn’s substantially better Girls, Girls, Girls! That may also function as brain bleach, being pretty hilarious (or maybe that’s just my being a big EA fan)
There’s nothing wrong with masculine sexuality, gay or straight. I suppose that guy is referring to the idea that all men are rapists, which no one I know of believes.
If someone says they find the actions of gays repulsive, they’re branded a homophobe. Fall in line little bolsheviks, hate speech dictated by the regime will not be tolerated.
its kind of adorable how that chas bono picture has ‘cute’ and ‘hideous’ at the bottom, like the dude wasnt confident enough in his message to trust that people would figure it out on their own
I think I’m just extra special rage-y about the erasure of women oil workers today. (Ed Note – at-the-pump prices are tied to by-the-barrel prices with the same ephemeral and esoteric string that MRAsssbutt logic is tied to real-world logic. I’ll give you a shiny new quarter if you can guess the colour of skin and the gender of the peeps who set pay-at-the-pump prices though.)
A big part of it is that I love my job with all my heart, and I hate seeing it being misrepresented as some sort of Industrial Revolution poverty porn-esque hell on earth where all the Good Hardworking Honest Men go to toil in little safety and comfort for the Pampered Princesses of the world. Cause none of the mines I’ve worked in – oilsands, coal, uranium or potash – have working conditions that are any less clean or safe than say, the grocery store butcher’s shop I worked in while I was in school. Less pleasant than swanning about some uber-modern office in swishy silks and exotic perfumes (like you do), but not *intolerable*
The other part of it is that while I love to drill, I’m a bit too pregnant to be out there anymore, and I’m being asked to go back anyways. Which is just going to be a nightmare on every front.
I do not understand what MRAs think they can accomplish by calling lesbians ugly. By definition we do not want to have sex with or pursue romantic relationships with men; ergo, we do not care whether men think we are physically attractive. If the greatest “insult” some puny man can muster is “You’re fat and ugly!” his wit is pathetic indeed. Almost pitiable.
NWO, if someone finds gays repulsive, they ARE a homophobe. If they found other races repulsive, they’d be a racist. Facts, motherfucker.
Or are you one of those “love the sinner, hate the sin” assholes?
@halite
i think he meant soldiers. which granted, doesnt make it less reprehensible.
@hellkell
owlslaves philosophy is more like ‘hate the sinner, hate the non-sinner too just for good measure’