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antifeminism crackpottery evil women I am making a joke MGTOW MRA pig ignorance radfems oh my reddit sexy robot ladies whaaaaa?

Oh, the questions they ask!

Here are a couple of, well, let’s just call them very intriguing questions asked of me by a Men’s Rights Redditor. Since I can’t respond to them on the Men’s Rights subreddit — I’m banned — I thought I’d respond here:

Mr. Levelate, allow me to answer your serious questions with some equally serious questions of my own:

I’ve wondered for a long time how people like you react to the men’s rights mantra of ‘all women are wombats’, when you see a woman who isn’t a wombat, how do you explain this?

Also, many MRAs advocate turning all squirrels into bologna, what makes you think squirrel bologna would taste better than regular bologna, and what would the world do with all those extra uneaten nuts, were it ever to come to that?

Here’s the thing, Mr. Levelate: those things you think feminists believe? FEMINISTS DON’T ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEM.

That “all men are rapists” quote from Marilyn French you guys like to pass around? That was from a character in a novel.

The number of radical feminists who seriously want to get rid of men, or a significant number of them, you could probably count on your fingers. I’m not sure how many MRAs want to make squirrel bologna, but the numbers are probably similar. And, fyi, there are actually more than a few MRAs who fantasize about breeding certain types of women out of existence, like this dude on The Spearhead, and a small army of MRAs and MGTOWers who pine for the imaginary future where babies are gestated in artificial wombs and women are all replaced by sexy sexbots.

Listening to MRAs talking about feminism is a bit like sitting in on a book club in which no one has read the book.

 

 

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Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Actually, it has less to do with feminism than with the joy I take in contradicting foolish assholes. It’s so tiring to go around seeing people spout their stupid prejudices, then being careful to look things up and make a logical argument showing how they are wrong, only to have the truth go unacknowledged. Fuck all of that noise.

So factfinder, who was it that convinced you your sadism is virtuous such that you finally decided to make Preggo Punchout?

ideologuereview
8 years ago

A social justice warrior once said, “I have neither the time nor the patience to educate my opposition.”

lauralot89
8 years ago

How does one “get” a woman drunk? I always thought people got themselves drunk, but then feminism is about reducing women to the level of children. Maybe they think the ladies are being held down force-fed or something.

So I take it “playing dumb” is considered a valuable asset in your debate arsenal. Don’t the other male supremacists complaining that you’re infantalizing men with that tactic? Or is the MRM all about making men seem like dumb and childish animal who can’t be expected to control themselves?

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I enjoy the kittens meowing videos, they always make my dog go silly.

lauralot89
8 years ago

*animals

lauralot89
8 years ago

Urgh, and complain, not complaining. I take this as a sign that I should get some sleep now.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“How does one “get” a woman drunk? I always thought people got themselves drunk, but then feminism is about reducing women to the level of children. Maybe they think the ladies are being held down force-fed or something.”

Oh FFS “get her more drunk than you’re getting yourself” and I specifically said the same would apply with different gender applied, or do I have to play gender binary and specifically say a woman could get a man drunk? There you go, said it.

If you want tips how to get someone drunk, go get your rape advise somewhere else.

Especially since it’s moot, if your partner is too drunk to consent, and you proceed, it’s rape. See #2 about finding a drunk woman — still rape.

@lauralot89 — yeah, it still doesn’t make actual sense but it’s not total gibberish either.

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Dear Factfinder,

One gets someone drunk by offering them drinks. If one takes advantage of someone afterwards, the method by which they got drunk is irrelevant to the unethicality of taking advantage of them.

Sincerely,

Department of Sugar and Lightness

ideologuereview
8 years ago

Oh dear, they’ve moved from calling me stupid to implying I am a rapist. I always knew the feminist dogma condoned slander and libel against the right targets, but I thought feminists had a little more restraint.

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

It’s so cute when you pretend to misunderstand slander vs. libel, and whether or not a given statement constitutes such.

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Oh, my mistake, you mentioned both. It’s still cute that you don’t know what constitutes it, though.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

ideologuereview — I’m not giving out what is basically “how to rape” tips for you or anyone else reading along — happy now? (Maybe note that the offending line starts with the word “if”, use a dictionary if you need to.)

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Conditional statements are Misandry.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

You derive pleasure from the idea of beating up pregnant women. I’d say “rapist” is a step up.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Conditional statements are Misandry.” — of course they are >.<

Is anything not Misandry according to the MRM? That's a serious question btw, carrots? Have they managed to make carrots Misandry…salad is not man food so yes they have? Bacon? Could bacon ever be Misandry?

Oh…it's fried, and fried foods aren't exactly healthy, and men tend to have slightly shorter life spans than women so yep, bacon is Misandry. Is anything not then?

(please pardon my idiocy, I whacked my head off the freezer door putting shit away by the fridge light, lest I piss off a cranky nocturnal fish — I'll be fine, but I think I rattled my brain a bit)

The cranky nocturnal fish isn't misandrist, he just hates everyone.

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

It’s okay, Argenti: the Grand Mabus of Feminism supports not only all of your actions, but getting hit in the head by the freezer door as well. Anything a feminist does both reflects on, and is approved of by, Feminism—by order of the Grand Mabus herself.

Thank goddess a feminist didn’t make Preggo Punchout.

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

PS Misanthropy is Misandry.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Thank goddess a feminist didn’t make Preggo Punchout.” — lol, indeed

“PS Misanthropy is Misandry.” — that nearly makes sense, considering they consider male the default gender, but I’m not sure the cranky fish like other fish either (except dead ones, those are on his menu >.< )

Is lycanthropy Misandry?

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Have you ever seen a female Werewolf? I haven’t.

Lycanthropy is a feminist plot.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Tulgey — I prefer my werewolves be White Wolf in origin, so yes, I have. And White Wolf looks like random capitalization in this context XD

Or maybe the better question is: wait, you’ve seen a werewolf?!

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Well I certainly haven’t seen a female one.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

+1 internet for that

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Captain Angua would like to remind the non-Pratchett readers that she is in fact a werewolf.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

One gets someone drunk by offering them drinks. If one takes advantage of someone afterwards, the method by which they got drunk is irrelevant to the unethicality of taking advantage of them.

And if one intends to get someone drunk, there are various coercive strategies that can be employed – surreptitiously topping up the drink in question being a particularly simple one.

I come from a culture where there’s a lot of social pressure to drink too much – it’s something I consciously resist now, but it’s much harder to summon the willpower if you’re only in your teens/twenties. Especially if you’re shy and self-conscious and think that alcohol helps unlock your naturally sparkling personality.

But, as you say, the precise method of getting drunk is moot.

And it’s really really not difficult to judge whether someone is too drunk to give informed consent. I’ve referred elsewhere to an incident when a close friend’s younger sister unexpectedly came onto me very strongly indeed. I wasn’t entirely sober myself, but I was rational enough to calculate (a) that she could barely walk at the time, and almost certainly was in no position to give informed consent, b) that sex under these circumstances probably wouldn’t be especially great, and (c) even without (b) as a factor, this could significantly complicate my relationship not just with her but her sister and indeed the rest of their family, all of whom I knew well, whose paths I crossed regularly, and who only lived a couple of blocks away. So I made sure that she got home OK, and left it at that.

Any regrets? None whatever – in fact, twenty years on she remains a good friend (if anything, a closer friend now than her sister was at the time), and I’m not even sure she remembers that little incident. I certainly never referred to it.

Xtra
Xtra
8 years ago

I hate the rapist loophole of “drunk sex”. If you have a pretty good idea that the person would not have sex with you sober then you are just looking for a way to get around consent and avoid being called the rapist you are. It’s just so dishonest. It’s basically like any other criminal waiting for a person to be vulnerable to do what they want to do.

In this case either consent under impairment or the person is damn near passed out so they cant say no or resist, besides the fact that to this sorry person lack of a no or resistance means yes to them. I’m gonna go watch some kitty videos now…

speedbudget
speedbudget
8 years ago

So true, Xtra, with the added benefit of the victim-blaming narrative of “Why did you get so drunk? Only bad girls who deserve rape get drunk.”

Rapists know exactly what they are doing.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

(please pardon my idiocy, I whacked my head off the freezer door putting shit away by the fridge light, lest I piss off a cranky nocturnal fish — I’ll be fine, but I think I rattled my brain a bit)

The cranky nocturnal fish isn’t misandrist, he just hates everyone.

Exactly how big is this fish? Does it have teeth?

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

I hate the rapist loophole of “drunk sex”.

Me too, especially since I have *been* in the “What if BOTH people are drunk?” scenario. We discussed whether or not we were going to have sex BEFOREHAND while SOBER, genius! It’s not that hard!

Magical Laura (@_magical_laura)

(I have no idea how to embed videos…this is very triggering for rape, specifically rape under the influence of alcohol)

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3TT0TfQHKM]

This is what raping a drunk girl looks like. I wonder how MRAs would comment on the video. It’s chilling in how realistic it is.

Amphitrite
Amphitrite
8 years ago

There’s an obvious irony joke to be had about how the MRA-ians can’t wrap their heads around “diminished capacity.”

All their reasoning is like a crappy syllogism:

Men are humans.
Women aren’t men.
Therefore women aren’t humans.

Except “women” stands for anything “other.” Children, gender queer, etc: non humans. They’ve all slammed us irrevocably varelse. Which is sad. And frustrating.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
8 years ago

>>>A social justice warrior once said, “I have neither the time nor the patience to educate my opposition.”

A sentiment I concur with. The liberal myth that opposition is usually due to lack of education or consciousness-raising instead of irreconciliable difference in interests is not a tenable position. At best it represents a tiny sliver of the opposition.

In the end what matters is winning, not whether you changed minds (even if changing minds is one possible way of winning).

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Just how autobiographical is her novel? “There is nothing in the book I’ve not felt.”

Finally bothered myself to look at the People link. Despite Factfinder’s use of this quote as support for the idea that French believes the statements of the character Mira, I don’t gather that from this selection at all. A couple months ago I was going through a great deal of emotional trouble and used poetry as an outlet for that. Sometimes I would write a poem centered around an idea, but I would then think twice about that idea and find that I disagreed with the sentiment expressed. Even though I felt everything I wrote at some point or another, that doesn’t mean I agreed with it permanently. And the goal of a fiction author is not, in fact, to only present ideas with which one agrees.

Furthermore, even if Marilyn French does or did agree completely with that character’s statement, it is pretty obvious that the definition of the word “rape” in that context includes much more than any legal definition encompasses—it’s more like the “male gaze” than rape.

In other words: no, factfinder still hasn’t made a coherent point, though I’m sure he fancies his “point at thing A and point at thing B” approach to be very cutting; and pathetic anti-feminists lose this argument on all fronts.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

@Magical Laura:

I guarantee MRAs would find a way to pin the blame on the girl in that video. Guarantee it.

Pecunium
8 years ago

I really like this one. I don’t know if it’s the original, but it’s the one I first saw.

Pecunium
8 years ago

And

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@Lauralot

So I take it “playing dumb” is considered a valuable asset in your debate arsenal.

Hey now, there ain’t nuthin playful about that. This hurr is serious MRA bidness!

@Argenti

so yep, bacon is Misandry.

Finally someone explains why I’m a self-hating mangina!!

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

The cranky nocturnal fish isn’t misandrist, he just hates everyone.

How does one tell if a fish is cranky and hates people?

I’d comment on Preggo Punchout’s stupid fucking intentional misunderstanding of rape, but frankly it makes me sick. I’m still reeling from Welmer’s stupid fucking blatant, evil mischaracterization of rape. It is to puke.

You know how, in popular culture, rapists have knives and guns and pull women into dark alleyways, and as a culture we get all confused when someone says they were raped but there was no gun or knife? ALCOHOL IS THE WEAPON.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I always assumed that fish were fairly indifferent to people, unless they want to eat us.

FactMangler seems to be attempting a particularly inept form of gaslighting. Not sure why he’d think it would work.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Because women are stupid, and manginas are like women.

It’s not as if we can read, or remember. We just do what our overlords tell us, unlike the free-thinking Manly Men.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@Bee

My favorite comment is Huck Finn’s.

The response to this immoral court decision will be more men and boys avoiding women and girls (when drunk or sober), and more males turning against government and society.

Pretty sure that any guy that stays away from women because of this court case is blessing humanity. I also love that, for all W.F. Price’s handwaving, Brigadoon’s comments received at least twice as many upvotes as downvotes. Fucking vile POSs.

@David

If you decide to do a post on that post, and Price ends up taking down Brigadoon’s comments, I saved a copy of the page. So let me know and I can mail it to you.

FelixBC
FelixBC
8 years ago

Bee, that article by WTF Price is truly nauseating.

What I’m getting at is that the idea is that when a woman is intoxicated, we can’t know for certain whether she would have consented or not otherwise.

If you don’t know whether or not she “would have” consented, then you DO know that she didn’t. Bleh. If she’s too intoxicated to indicate consent then, by definition, she didn’t consent. How is this difficult to understand??

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

A social justice warrior once said, “I have neither the time nor the patience to educate my opposition.

I agree with this as well. In feminists spaces, pleas for education are usually only deployed as a giant derailing tactic.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

I hate the rapist loophole of “drunk sex”. If you have a pretty good idea that the person would not have sex with you sober then you are just looking for a way to get around consent and avoid being called the rapist you are. It’s just so dishonest. It’s basically like any other criminal waiting for a person to be vulnerable to do what they want to do.

I agree with this 100%. And with regard to WF Price, if you don’t know for certain what your intended sexual conquest thinks of the prospect, then plain common sense suggests that you should regard her response as a firm “no”. Even if it means not getting laid at that particular time, which I realize is a sacrifice certain less mature people find hard to make.

Which is not to say that having sex with someone for the first time while under the influence of alcohol is a bad idea per se – let’s face it, we’ve almost certainly all been there. But there’s a massive difference between two people using alcohol as a pleasant social lubricant and just one person cynically using it as a calculated means of breaking down defences.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

But there’s a massive difference between two people using alcohol as a pleasant social lubricant and just one person cynically using it as a calculated means of breaking down defences.

I’ll take this a step further, even. I think most rapists aren’t just using alcohol as a calculated means of breaking down defenses, but as a calculated means of completely incapacitating their targets and rendering them incapable of fighting back, getting away, getting help, thinking clearly, etc.

I don’t know anything about rape laws in Britain, but in the U.S. typically to bring a successful case you’d need to show that the victim was clearly and demonstrably drunk off their ass — i.e., was stumbling, slurring their words, throwing up, not making sense, blacking out — and that the rapist was not — i.e., was able to drive home, was able to walk and talk clearly, was making rational decisions. This looks extremely different from Welmer’s painting of two consenting adults having drunken sex after a drink or two.

Pecunium
8 years ago

The MRM is inept in its use of the, “No True Scotsman”, in that, even as they are trying to deny that the Brieviks, the Spearheads, the Lepines, the Ball’s are part of the “movement”, they proceed to praise them, and repeat the things they said.

So Elam can’t avoid being lumped with them, and the In Male Fides and the Sodonis of the world, because they are cut from the same cloth.

ideologuereview
8 years ago

Are atheists cut from the same cloth as well? Scientists as well? Because Brievik quoted Richard Dawkins and Charles Darwin.
I also love how you feminist pussyfoot around the fact that women are also members of the MRM and more are coming out in support of us. Of course, feminism is the only objective school of thought so anyone who disagrees with it is brainwashed, right?

Sharculese
8 years ago

what are you talking about factfinder, we make fun of typhonblue and gww all time.

why do the dudes who bleat about us being ‘ideologues’ always have the most rigid blinders on, themselves?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

There’s no shortage of sexism in atheism or science. You must be new to the internet if you think otherwise, PreggoPunchout.

We know there’s women in the MRM, there’s been no pussyfooting here about Typhon, GWW, or others. Love on, you’d know this if you could find a fact.

I personally don’t think they’re brainwashed, I think they’re in for a rude awakening when they step out of line and the boys boot them from the club.

Shaenon
8 years ago

ideologue– So, as a woman, why should I support the MRM? Also, why should I not be a feminist? Lay out an argument and I’ll consider it.

Specifically, I’m a happily married woman in my 30s with an awesome husband and a career I love. The feminist movement has given me the freedom to achieve those things. But maybe the MRM has something better planned for me?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Gaslighting or just stupid? I’m voting “both”, again.