Here are a couple of, well, let’s just call them very intriguing questions asked of me by a Men’s Rights Redditor. Since I can’t respond to them on the Men’s Rights subreddit — I’m banned — I thought I’d respond here:
Mr. Levelate, allow me to answer your serious questions with some equally serious questions of my own:
I’ve wondered for a long time how people like you react to the men’s rights mantra of ‘all women are wombats’, when you see a woman who isn’t a wombat, how do you explain this?
Also, many MRAs advocate turning all squirrels into bologna, what makes you think squirrel bologna would taste better than regular bologna, and what would the world do with all those extra uneaten nuts, were it ever to come to that?
Here’s the thing, Mr. Levelate: those things you think feminists believe? FEMINISTS DON’T ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEM.
That “all men are rapists” quote from Marilyn French you guys like to pass around? That was from a character in a novel.
The number of radical feminists who seriously want to get rid of men, or a significant number of them, you could probably count on your fingers. I’m not sure how many MRAs want to make squirrel bologna, but the numbers are probably similar. And, fyi, there are actually more than a few MRAs who fantasize about breeding certain types of women out of existence, like this dude on The Spearhead, and a small army of MRAs and MGTOWers who pine for the imaginary future where babies are gestated in artificial wombs and women are all replaced by sexy sexbots.
Listening to MRAs talking about feminism is a bit like sitting in on a book club in which no one has read the book.
@hellkell: Don’t kid yourself. Soap dropping jokes are extremely common and accepted. It’s used as a threat against male criminals all the time.
@Ginger: No, the dominant narrative, socially and legally (legally meaning there are actual laws about it) is “rape is something a man does to a woman” with the experiences outside of that being erased. Well, except for the occasional “older man diddles a little boy” story (even though the majority of child abusers are women).
Yay for misquoting!!
@ButtTroll: Wanta give some dates for those events?
Because you’re digging deep into the past, and into a specific historic moment in feminism, and implying that feminists today, many of whom were born post-1968 when Solanas attempted to kill Warhol, are somehow all fans/supporters of these feminists, most of whom they don’t know (I know them all because I’m old, and I know that their feminist work is a lot more complex and lengthy than one specific action–I don’t know why they decided Solanas was worth fighting for back then, but it was not uncommon for activists to be railroaded into jail cells, and there were protests for them). I’ve read work by all these women because I study that historical period, as well as having lived through it (though I was too young when it happened to know much of what was going on–plus living in a small town in Idaho).
These aren’t ‘mainstream’ feminists today.
Even back then, they were not the most mainstream/centrist feminists — and had conflicts with the more liberal/moderate feminists (Betty Friedan and others who founded the National Organization for Women). Morgan, Kennedy, and I suspect, though I’d have to check, Atkinson were among the self-identified radical feminists (those who aligned themselves in philosophy and tactics with the Civil Rights protests, street protests, sit-ins, etc.). There were a lot of conflicts in NOW and other feminist groups during the 1970s.
But you’re a fool if you think these names are known to all feminists, or the events that took place, and some of those issues–especially, as I say, to the feminists born after 1970.
Despite NWO’s paranoid claims, feminist history and philosophy is not taught in schools, or extensively covered in mainstream media.
I fail to see how this can be true, when (a) the death penalty exists for some crimes, but (b) it’s unconstitutional (per the Eighth Amendment) to impose the death penalty for rape (see Coker v. Georgia, 433 U.S. 584 (1977); Kennedy v. Louisiana 554 U.S. 407 (2008)). In fact, Kennedy held that the Eighth Amendment bars the application of the death penalty in any case in which no victim died.
Culturally and jurisprudentially, we treat the death penalty as the “ultimate punishment” reserved for the “most heinous” crimes. Since we can’t apply this ultimate-most-heinous-punishment to rape perpetrators, rape is thus not considered the “most heinous” crime in U.S. society. We clearly think murder is worse.
You can personally disagree that the death penalty is the ultimate in criminal punishment. I personally think there’s a case for life without parole being worse. But that opinion does not reflect society’s current prevailing norms.
I disagree here only because I think it’s precisely because we don’t think prison rape is trivial or a joke that we treat it like part of a convict’s “just due” for certain crimes. There’s a significant portion of the population that really does think some convicts should get raped in jail, and who might actually be disappointed if they thought these folks weren’t getting “what was coming to them” in the form of rape.
Where we do fail in treating prison rape seriously is in treating it as a serious problem that needs to be stoppd. And I agree, that absolutely needs to change. But moving from “prison rape is just deserts” to “prison rape is never acceptable” is going to require dismantling a lot of rape culture narratives. Yes, the rape culture hurts men, too.
Yeah, that’s the narrative that feminists think is bullshit.
I think we might be getting somewhere.
Arks, it’s not used as a joke here, OK? Go find out where they’re making those jokes and go bother them.
“Yeah, that’s the narrative that feminists think is bullshit.”
Except for the ones who believe in things like rape culture, schroedinger’s rapist and “men can stop rape.” Who does this leave behind exactly.
Men can stop rape =/= all men are rapists.
Schroedinger’s rapist =/= all men are rapists.
Rape culture =/= all men are rapists.
It’s not smart to tell lies about what feminists believe to a group of feminists. Actually, that’s the opposite of smart.
@lauralot89
My post =/= about all men being rapists. It’s about the narrative that rape is something men do to women… which is at the heart of all those silly ideas.
@Dani: Okay. I don’t live in the US so the death penalty never even crossed my mind.
Oh boy, NWO’s back to be even more disingenuous. It’s like Shitmas.
How is “you can’t tell by looking” (Schrodinger’s rapist) a silly idea? How is “This culture has a virgin/whore dichotomy and trivializes rape under anything other than a very narrow set of circumstances” (rape culture) a silly idea? How is “men have the power to stop rape” a silly idea?
Oh, yeah. They aren’t. Fuck off.
It’s also notable that men “have it coming” when they go to prison for various crimes, but women “have it coming” for having the audacity to wear certain clothes, etcetera.
According to NWO children also have it coming for wearing swimwear at the beach. I think he wins today’s who’s the biggest asshole competition.
Arks calling anything a “silly idea” is itself a silly idea. Tell us about hot buttered manatees again, Arksyboy!
The entire Arks persona, complete with “hot buttered manatees” and BSDM icon, is a silly idea.
This seems particularly incomprehensible, even by Owly standards.
I was about to mention to Arks that rape culture affects plenty of male rape victims too, but then I remembered that MRAs don`t actually give a shit about solving real problems
Lauralot: yay, it’s Shitmas with NWO!!!
NWO, is it tiresome being as dense and nasty as you are?
Men can stop rape = all rapists are men, all rape victims are women, women never rape other women, women can’t protect themselves.
Schrodinger’s rapist = all men can be considered guilty until proven innocent even though in terms of probability that is ridiculous and paranoid.
Rape culture = rape and violence against women are acceptable even though no one thinks that and even though society is built around the opposite, male disposability.
You’re right that society trivializes rape except for a narrow range of circumstances though. The circumstances just aren’t what you imagine they are.
Also, if you don`t think that rape is a laughing matter, tell that to your buddies in the MRM like Paul Elam. Or the several hundred MRA Redditors who massively upvoted a Rage comic , in which a guy raped a girl, just last week. Or the MRAs who mocked reporter Laura Logan for being gang-raped by an Egyptian mob. Any of those groups will do for a start.
Every day is Shitmas when Owly comes to town.
Arks, don’t start with that male disposability crap. Unless it’s hot buttered manatees or gaping crotch maws, you’re out of your element.
Don’t try to tell me the logical outcomes of feminist lines of thoughts regarding rape when you can’t even recognize that the statement “men can stop rape” does not preclude the notion that women can ALSO stop rape. Does it hurt to grasp at straws that desperately?
“Men can stop rape” is indeed problematic, since men can only stop the majority of rape. “Rapists can stop rape,” is a bit better.
Schödinger’s Rapist has absolutely nothing to do with the presumption of innocence, which only makes sense within a legal context. You’re only innocent until proven guilty in a courtroom; the victim of any crime who witnesses, without ambiguity, the person who commits the act making the act happen knows who is guilty.
As for “there’s no rape culture,” you’re in denial, Herr Slobbering Crotch Maws.
Listen carefully, male supremacists:
SCHRODINGER’S RAPIST SAYS YOU CAN’T TELL BY LOOKING.
SCHRODINGER’S RAPIST SAYS YOU CAN’T TELL BY LOOKING.
SCHRODINGER’S RAPIST SAYS YOU CAN’T TELL BY LOOKING.
It does not say “all men are rapists.” It does not say “all men should be jailed so they don’t have the chance to be rapists.” It does not say “women should mace all men on sight because they could be rapists.” It says “you can’t tell by looking.”