Categories
antifeminism crackpottery evil women I am making a joke MGTOW MRA pig ignorance radfems oh my reddit sexy robot ladies whaaaaa?

Oh, the questions they ask!

Here are a couple of, well, let’s just call them very intriguing questions asked of me by a Men’s Rights Redditor. Since I can’t respond to them on the Men’s Rights subreddit — I’m banned — I thought I’d respond here:

Mr. Levelate, allow me to answer your serious questions with some equally serious questions of my own:

I’ve wondered for a long time how people like you react to the men’s rights mantra of ‘all women are wombats’, when you see a woman who isn’t a wombat, how do you explain this?

Also, many MRAs advocate turning all squirrels into bologna, what makes you think squirrel bologna would taste better than regular bologna, and what would the world do with all those extra uneaten nuts, were it ever to come to that?

Here’s the thing, Mr. Levelate: those things you think feminists believe? FEMINISTS DON’T ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEM.

That “all men are rapists” quote from Marilyn French you guys like to pass around? That was from a character in a novel.

The number of radical feminists who seriously want to get rid of men, or a significant number of them, you could probably count on your fingers. I’m not sure how many MRAs want to make squirrel bologna, but the numbers are probably similar. And, fyi, there are actually more than a few MRAs who fantasize about breeding certain types of women out of existence, like this dude on The Spearhead, and a small army of MRAs and MGTOWers who pine for the imaginary future where babies are gestated in artificial wombs and women are all replaced by sexy sexbots.

Listening to MRAs talking about feminism is a bit like sitting in on a book club in which no one has read the book.

 

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

375 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
speedbudget
speedbudget
8 years ago

I just want to chime in a little bit to say that I don’t think all men are rapists, but it’s always in the back of my mind that a particular man whom I’ve just met might be. Because, hey, I was raped. By a friend. Whom I trusted.

If some random MRA doesn’t like that, maybe the problem is with the men who are raping the women, not with the women being rational and thinking, This dude could possibly rape me at any time. It’s like, if you’re in a dark alley and someone is following you, you think, This guy could mug me at any second. So you keep on your guard. Because it would be stupid NOT to.

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

Yeah they should stick to actual statements that feminists make. Like a Jewish feminist calling an entire race a cancer. Or Ms Magazine editors supporting the release of a a homicidal, gendercidal maniac in Valerie Solanos. Truth is stranger than fiction!

http://www.womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

That’s just historical feminists. The current bunch of misandrists are far less interesting. It’s just people like Marcotte who were outraged at the privilege that men have to be innocent until proven guilty in rape cases.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Some women (and men) ARE wombats. A wombat is a lover who eats roots and leaves. 😉

abeille
8 years ago

@Speedbudget
Schrödinger’s Rapist.
But then, MRAs would probably understand it as “all men are rapists” anyway.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

My beloved family members said to me “if a woman follows a man into a dark alley, she DESERVES to be raped”, or, to put it another way, he SHOULD rape her! 🙁 🙁 🙁

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Buttman, those were the radical feminists that David was speaking of in the OP. Perhaps you should read it?

If I had a nickel for every time some fool brought up Solanas, I could buy a nice lunch, at the very least.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

In my experience, this is true.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Oops, that should say “the threat of rape …”

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

“Buttman, those were the radical feminists that David was speaking of in the OP. Perhaps you should read it?”

Actually, he was arguing that it was a misrepresentation of what a feminist thought. Those “radical” statements came from mainstream feminists.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

@abeille: Not only would they, they do.

Schrödinger’s Rapist isn’t the opposite of “some men are not rapists,” it’s the opposite of “no men are rapists.” It says “∃ a man, such that he is a rapist” (which is true) not “&#8708 a man, such that he is not a rapist” (which is false). But MRAs don’t seem to accept that, or understand the distinction.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

As long as a significant portion of half the population make rape jokes a significant portion of the other half of the population are going to suspect that they may be rapists.
That should not really be hard to grasp.

blitzgal
8 years ago

Yes, Assman, the Duke Lacrosse case means that there is no such thing as rape.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

Unicode fail!

Anyway, Magpie, the whole “deserves to be raped” notion is the depressingly common erasure of the rapist as sentient being.

Though, typing this, I do wonder if there are people who would respond to “in an ideal world, there’d be no rapists” with (though obviously not in so many words) “but then what would prevent women from walking alone on dark streets?”

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

“Yes, Assman, the Duke Lacrosse case means that there is no such thing as rape.”

White on Black rape is so rare that even a man-hating feminist should have allow innocence until proven guilt.

tuba_man
tuba_man
8 years ago

Listening to MRA’s talk about it? Listening to almost anyone, really. I know plenty of people who actually agree with most *actual* feminist leanings and still think feminists are insane man-haters out to something something I never read the manual.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Hershele Ostropoler

In the theoretical game of Schrodinger’s Cat, the question is, is the cat dead or alive? There is no guess work for Schrodinger’s Rapist. Any man placed in the box is a rapist, hence the term rapist. Or is the question still the same? Is the man, dubbed a rapist by the name on the box, dead or alive?

nwoslave
8 years ago

@thebewilderness
“As long as a significant portion of half the population make rape jokes a significant portion of the other half of the population are going to suspect that they may be rapists.”

Your statement indicates as a fact that a significant portion of half the population does indeed make rape jokes. Much like Hershele Ostropoler’s Schrodinger’s Rapist game, guilt is assumed.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

Brownmiller’s thesis is much more subtle than that: you can’t pull out one sentence out of context and expect it to tell you what was up in a several-hundred-page book. Essentially, she theorizes that under patriarchy the threat of rape is a tool of control of women, especially of their sexualities. “Don’t be too slutty, you’ll get raped. Don’t go out alone, you’ll get raped. Don’t go to parties, you’ll get raped.” That way, patriarchy insures that more women are sexually inexperienced or virginal and under the thumb of men.

Your second sentence is not a quote from MacKinnon, it’s a quote from Professing Feminism, an anti-feminist book, summarizing what the author thinks MacKinnon’s theories are.

I’ve never heard of Gearheart, so I highly doubt she’s a mainstream feminist voice today. I cannot find that quote online, except on MRA websites, nor can I find the essay it’s apparently from.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@blitzgal
“Yes, Assman, the Duke Lacrosse case means that there is no such thing as rape.”

Would you find a flippant remark by an MRA, such as, “Yes, blitzgal, case x of a woman brutally beaten and raped means that there is no such thing as a false accusation,” vile and hateful?

Guess what you are?

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Somebody misusing or inventing quotes from feminists to distort and misrepresent their views? I’ve never heard of such a thing!

Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

So… how ’bout that book, everyone? I really like the plot, and there is characterization, which is good. The protagonist is likable, and I find myself taking their side in events overall. The feminist character is a bit shrill and distorted, though, and I find she isn’t really representative of feminism at all.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Ozymandias:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Miller_Gearhart

I’ve read Gearhart’s best known sf novel (THE WANDERGROUND) which is one of the lesser known feminist utopias of the seventies feminist utopias–it was the least interesting to me, and I don’t have a strong memory of it.

Despite the claims of all feminist being lesbians, I think many of the lesbian feminists are less well known generally, for whatever reason.

I haven’t read a lot of her work, as I said, but given the typical MRA quoting style, I’d be willing to bet that the quote has a good chance of coming from her Fiction.

Or not at all.

I googled it myself and only found it on MRA type sites.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

I have a little free time now because finals are over, so let’s play a fun game of Factcheck the Quotes on Buttman’s Link! Follow along here: http://www.womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html

Robin Morgan’s quote, in context, does not refer to hating men, it refers to hating the male role, in much the same way as poor people may hate the rich, people of color white people, or trans people cis people– because the oppressor tends to be a douchebag to the oppressed. You can disagree with her model of how gender works, but it’s certainly not misandric in and of itself.

No fucking feminists like Solanas. Seriously. Lady’s a murderer and disconnected from this plane of reality. Every movement has at least one complete wacko.

The third quote is from a fictional novel by Andrea Dworkin and is almost certainly not meant to be an expression of her actual beliefs.

The forth quote was already discussed above.

The fifth is by Sharon Stone, who is an actress and not known for being a feminist activist afaik; quoting her does not prove feminists are evil, it proves that a woman said a stupid thing once. It can also be easily interpreted in a nonproblematic way– i.e. that a woman has to be famous to have the power to hurt men. This may or may not be TRUE, but it is not an expression of man-hatred. Finally, I did not find a source for this outside the usual MRA websites.

The sixth and seventh are discussed above.

The eighth is a lady I’ve never heard of and she does not have a Wikipedia page. One random person saying a stupid thing once does not mean feminists are evil.

The ninth is, again, from a work of fiction and does not represent the beliefs of the author.

The tenth is a quote from Greer’s the Female Eunuch. It probably refers to masculinity and how, under conditions of patriarchy, masculinity is fragile and must continually be earned, even if you don’t fucking want to earn it. In fact, this is a pro-male statement.

By the numbers, we have:
FOUR ladies who are not mainsteam feminist theorists
THREE misinterpretations
TWO quotes from works of fiction
ONE fabricated quote
And a partridge in a feminists-aren’t-actually-evil tree!

extraterrestrial biological entity princess

Fiction writers often have characters in their books say and do things the writer does not agree with or approve of. It means nothing.
MRA’s , like many people, have a fantasy about a group of people and act as though the fantasy is real. They’re fighting people who don’t exist.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

Ithiliana: It seems to be from an essay called “The Future– If There Is One– Is Female” which did seem to exist outside of fevered MRA dreams.

With that said, we now have

THREE ladies who are not mainsteam feminist theorists
THREE misinterpretations
TWO quotes from works of fiction
ONE fabricated quote
ONE impossible-to-find quote
And a partridge in a feminists-aren’t-actually-evil tree!

jumbofish
8 years ago

Seriously. Lady’s a murderer and disconnected from this plane of reality. Every movement has at least one complete wacko.

She didn’t even murder him though.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

She tried. Thing is, she was sick. Seriously now, since when do we treat people with actual disorders as if they’re vile, horrible people?

jumbofish
8 years ago

Its still f-d up though I just find it funny mra constantly try to use her as an example of a feminists wanting to murder all men when she did not even try kill him just because he was a man. Of coursethen they go and praise Brevik who actually killed people course, no irony there.

jumbofish
8 years ago

*Of course then they go praise Brevik who actually killed people, no irony there

Arks
8 years ago

The majority of feminists do believe that all men are rapists, and it’s not just a position held by radfems. Preposterous concepts such as “schrodinger’s rapist,” “men can stop rape” and “rape culture,” though completely divorced from reality, spell out pretty clearly what these harpies are really thinking.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Sad wombats

Crisis meeting as disease wipes out wombats
PM By Tom Nightingale
Updated May 15, 2012 08:52:48

Photo: Disease makes the southern hairy-nosed wombats bald and they have liver problems (Wombat Awareness Organisation) Related Story: Rampant weeds giving wombats liver diseaseRelated Story: $8m wombat bequest being fought by familyMap: SA
There has been a crisis meeting in Adelaide as wildlife groups mobilise to deal with a liver disease killing the wombat population in South Australia.

When sick, the animals become bald, get liver disease and struggle to walk.

Researchers have found the disease is caused when the wombats eat introduced grasses which have overtaken their native food sources.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-15/wombats-disease-weeds-crisis-meeting/4011476

Xanthë
8 years ago

I just want to chime in a little bit to say that I don’t think all men are rapists, but it’s always in the back of my mind that a particular man whom I’ve just met might be. Because, hey, I was raped. By a friend. Whom I trusted.

My experience too. To the letter.

So here’s the thing guys: I don’t think all men are rapists. (Stated in bold letters for maximum clarity.)

Unfortunately though, I know there are some rapists out there, and they don’t explicitly advertise the fact: they hide in plain sight. So if you’re making some apologist’s argument to deny the facts about rape (lookin’ at comment #2 in this thread), or if you’re joking like it’s no big deal to have been raped, then to someone like me it appears like you’re aiding and abetting the rapists, as well as giving me a strong indicator that you might be one of the rapists. That’s just how it works, I’m afraid.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

Arks: Schrodinger’s Rapist is the exact opposite of thinking all men are rapists! It is thinking that most men are not rapists, but some men are, and you cannot tell them apart by looking because rapists do not wear a sign on their heads that says I RAPE PEOPLE.

Rape culture is the idea that our culture systematically normalizes, trivializes, and encourages rape– even among those who are neither rapists nor rape survivors!– and is participated in by both men and women.

“Men can stop rape” is hella problematic, though.

Jumbo: You’re right, sorry, I misspoke.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

I assume by “not mainstream” you mean “not representative.” It’s not, as shown by the quotemining: if it were representative, I would be able to find something similar from any random piece of feminist writing, which, um, I can’t.

But I gotta say, “not mainstream” sounds like “she doesn’t put sugar in her porridge.”

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

“No fucking feminists like Solanas. Seriously. Lady’s a murderer and disconnected from this plane of reality. Every movement has at least one complete wacko.”

Feminist Robin Morgan (later editor of Ms. magazine) demonstrated for Solanas’s release from prison. Ti-Grace Atkinson, the New York chapter president of the National Organization for Women (NOW), described Solanas as “the first outstanding champion of women’s rights”[18][41] and as “a ‘heroine’ of the feminist movement”,[42][43] and “smuggled [her manifesto] … out of the mental hospital where Solanas was confined.”[42][43] Another NOW member, Florynce Kennedy, called her “one of the most important spokeswomen of the feminist movement.”[23][41] Norman Mailer called her the “Robespierre of feminism.”

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

Arks, are you seriously asserting that no man anywhere has ever raped a woman? Because you called the notion that this has happened “preposterous,” so I wanted to clarify.

speedbudget
speedbudget
8 years ago

To be clear: I never had a thought in my head that some men were rapists until I was raped. After that, and probably especially because it was a friend whom I trusted (which is the case in most cases of rape), that thought was implanted in my brain and can’t be unthought.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

Hershele: I’d call, e.g., Mary Daly a mainstream feminist (even though I disagree with her utterly). She’s someone talked about on feminist websites, her books are shelved with other feminist books, she was influential on other feminists, etc. I’m basically saying that Solanas and Sharon Stone and some lady who doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page are not exactly the three people I’d think of if I were to ask someone to define feminism.

Arks
8 years ago

Ozy: Schrodinger’s rapist is paranoia. It is the woman equivalent of crossing the street when you see a black person and it’s not a reasonable position to hold at all. If you’re a rape victim then I understand your fear, but it’s a ridiculous concept to teach to women as a whole.

Rape culture is the idea that rape is so common as to be considered normal and trivial… which is not remotely true. It’s taken extremely seriously, it’s considered the most heinous crime out there. Rape’s only trivial and a joke when it’s happening to men in prison.

lauralot89
8 years ago

Yes, kids, teaching women that you can’t be sure of someone’s intentions just by looking at them is absolutely ridiculous. Also, rape is the most serious crime there is, which is why all rapists are tried and found guil- oh wait.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

But, seriously, most feminist literature looks more like this (first lines of a bunch of feminist books off my shelves):

“How do we turn girls into women?”
“A few months after 9/11, one of our friends began to speak about his memories of living in New York City during the attacks on the World Trade Center.”
“From the moment we take our first breath (and sometimes even before that, what with sonic imaging technology), the cry ‘it’s a boy’ or ‘it’s a girl’ ushers us into the world.”
“In the concluding paragraph of the final chapter of his last book, Georges Bataille ruminated on photographs of a Chinese man undergoing lingchi, a form of public execution accomplished by severing limbs and ripping flesh from the victim’s body.”
“The walls pulsated with the rhythmic thump-thump-thump of a song from popular recording artist Usher.”

Shaenon
8 years ago

I like how “all men are rapists” is now a “feminist mantra,” despite no feminist, however extreme, ever having said or written that in the history of ever. But we all chant it to ourselves while doing our secret feminist yoga.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Schroedinger’s Rapist isn’t something that is taught to women, it was an attempt to explain something women already know. In other words, explaining what speedbudget said.

lauralot89
8 years ago

Shaenon! How dare you mention the secret feminist yoga!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Arks, no one here thinks prison rape is a joke. The imaginary feminists in your head are acting up again.

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
8 years ago

Okay, I’ll bite.

Rape culture is the idea that rape is so common as to be considered normal and trivial… which is not remotely true.

Rape is (a) so common as to be (b) normal and (c) trivial
(a) Common? Yes. Feel free to look at, oh, any statistic about sexual violence ever.
(b) Normal – Normal as in it happens all the time, yes. Normal as in it’s inevitable, not so much.
(c) Trivial – The idea that rape is bad does not trivialize rape, but I’m glad to see that you don’t think rape is trivial.

It’s taken extremely seriously, it’s considered the most heinous crime out there.

Legally, socially, it’s not taken seriously in most places unless it fits a very, very narrow narrative, which is usually a single young conventionally attractive female virgin who is kidnapped and brutalized by a male sociopath with a history of violent tendencies. I know someone who experienced this, but I also know plenty of people who were raped in ways that did not fit that narrative, and it was not considered particularly heinous by anyone who wasn’t closely related to them.

Some people consider some rapes in some circumstances to be “the most heinous crime out there”, but sexual violence as a whole is generally seen as a thing which can be deserved.

Rape’s only trivial and a joke when it’s happening to men in prison.

Which is why dudebros on the internet don’t fight to the death* for the ability to keep telling rape jokes**.

*hyperbole
**sarcasm

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The imaginary feminists in Arks’ head are so numerous and overworked that I’m waiting for them to unionise.

Xanthë
8 years ago

Must be time for another anti-anti-manboobz post then?

Sorry Arks, but there’s ample evidence that rape isn’t treated anywhere as seriously as other similar crimes committed against a person, and that many victims are too intimidated to report the crime in the first place.

1 2 3 8