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No, women aren’t better than men. But the guys at A Voice for Men are doing their best to make it seem that way.

Putting women on pedestals: Not good feminism.

Roger Ebert recently wrote a well-intentioned but misguided faux-feminist blog post setting forth the thesis that “Women are better than men.” Here’s the gist of it, from his opening paragraph:

Women are nicer than men. There are exceptions. Most people of both sexes are probably fairly nice, given the nature of their upbringing and opportunities. But in terms of their lifelong natures, women are kinder, more empathetic, more generous. And the sooner more of them take positions of power, the better our chances as a species.

Here’s how to respond appropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of Jill at Feministe:

I love me some Roger Ebert, but this is a big piece of crap. His point basically comes down to, “Women are nurturing and wonderful and non-violent, men are competitive and want to see boobs, because Evolution.” …  Most people are capable of great kindness; most people are capable of being total assholes. The degree to which any of us displays any of these traits depends largely on circumstance and partly on individual personality and temperament. Those things are certainly influenced by gender, but our gender does not in fact hard-wire us to be nice or awful.

Here’s how to respond inappropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of John the Other at A Voice for Men:

[Y]es, it’s another one of those articles. Men are bad, women are good, men are worse, women are better, men are the worst thing ever, and women are just the best, squee!!! …

Ebert, in his attempt to ingratiate himself to a mostly female audience has done what countless other approval seeking men have done. Simply, to metaphorically prostrate himself – declaring – look, I’m a good man, not like those other bad men, you see how I heap scorn on them and flatter you? Approve of me!…

Ebert’s male-abasing and false esteem is a tired and monotonous repetition of standard gender ideology.

Sing along with me, you all know the words!

Women are better then men!

Boom boom boom!

They do everything better than them!

Boom boom boom!

 

Ladies are generally nicer!

Quack quack quack!

Their thoughts and feelings are higher!

Quack quack quack!

 

Girls and women are smarter!

Bing! Bang! Smash!

To keep up, men must try harder!

Clang! Bang! Bash!

 

Well, there’s a thoughtful argument.

Naturally, the commenters at AVfM are happy to join in the fun.

Shrek6 trots out the old “we hunted the mammoth” argument:

[E]verything on this earth from the knickers these women wear on their fat buts, all the way through to just about every single thing they touch in their day, up to and including homes, buildings, cars, trains, rockets, and the food they stuff down their throats, has all been either invented or produced by those useless ‘less than’ human, men. What a waste of space those men are!

Yep, I can feel a man strike coming on.

If all the men and boys in this world pulled the pin and sat on their buts for a month, the world would come to a grinding halt and anarchy would reign. All the women would be seen crying, screeching at men with gnashing teeth. Then they would eventually come begging.

Yep, that day is coming to these over indulged women. That day is coming!

Andybob, meanwhile, offers this analysis of what he sees as the gender enemy:

There are four main categories of women:

1) Women who care about the men in their lives, but never make the connection that their naked misandry contributes to the misery of these men. Most of those women who whooped and cackled when RegisterHer lifer, Sharon Osborne, expressed delight when an innocent man was genitally mutilated belong in this category. They would not have cackled quite so much if someone had brutalised their sons. Other women’s sons? No problem. It has ever been thus: white feather campaign in WWI.

2) Women who may pay lip service to caring about the men in their lives, but in reality, see them in the same way they see all other men – as utility objects to be manipulated and exploited. Such women don’t think of the men in their lives at all, except when they want something from them.

3) Feminists. These range from the mild (man-hating bigots), to the radical (man-hating bigots who advocate genocide and eugenics).

4) Women MRAs. These are rare women (I’ve never seen one, even in captivity), who regard men as actual people with collective and innate value. I can count them on two hands with fingers to spare.

Men have been struggling for many decades now with nary a peep from women. There is a reason for this.

They don’t care.

Feminism has provided today’s pampered princesses with the privilege-stuffed, consequence-free Nirvana that they believe they’re entitled to. Do you really think they can be swayed with reason and logic? Have you ever tried to discuss men’s rights with women? They will show concern for some imaginary, hypothetical female from some Third World country before they give two shits about the son, brother or friend standing in front of them. …

We are in a battle against a powerful, well-financed and establishment-supported entity which has succeeded in stealing our rights in every sphere. This has been done with the silent collusion of vast numbers of women. As such, a few “derogatory remarks” are the least they deserve.

Guys, I hate to have to tell you this, but you’re sort of making it look like Ebert might have a point.

Happily, I know that you all are statistical outliers, and that your raving misogyny (while it may reflect views common amongst AVFM readers, as evidenced by the upvotes those comments got) doesn’t reflect the views of most men. Heck, even some Men’s Rights Redditors are getting sick of your bullshit.

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Shaenon
12 years ago

The only good thing about Lost Boys is that it has the best final line in the history of cinema.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Tried to watch House, characters far more cartoonish than most actual cartoons.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

@ Shaenon

No, the dog really was awesome, shame it was wasted on such a ridiculous movie.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Cassandra — the first season or two was…tolerable…I enjoyed the medical guessing enough to tolerate it at least. But then it just got stupider and stupider — it wouldn’t surprise me any if the current season is completely ridiculously bad. I gave up somewhere around Foreman telling his brother that prison rape is what he gets for committing a crime. Yeaahhhh, no thanks.

But I get the impression that would be almost nothing anymore, that it’s taken to jumping the shark as much as possible basically.

Shaenon — is the grandfather’s line about “all the vampires” the last line? I’m going to have to figure out how to work the in-another-state roommate’s computer to solve this (it’s the server, I have permission to use it, but it’s such a patchwork mess its dvd drive scares me…and mine is long since dead)

zhinxy
12 years ago

“they’ve got Captain Jack as well, who is, per Torchwood, omnisexual (aliens too I think is the point there) -”

And River Song is confirmed as bisexual by her creator/the show-runner, and a queer married to the main character is quite a nice thing. Plus her portrayal as a sexy woman of middle aged appearance.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

zhinxy — yet another reason to love River! Which, of course, only makes her “first appearance” that much worse…damn.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

And we both have failed to mention she’s not-white either (though I’m no sure how the actress identifies)

I am, admittedly, slightly less than impressed that basically her first action as River is about her dress size. But she sure can handle herself better than um, everyone else on that show, including the doctor himself.

zhinxy
12 years ago

I’m pretty sure Mels’ actress identifies as biracial.

There’s the dress size bit and that basically her entire career choice, etc, revolves around the Doctor. – Though the thing is, bending your entire life around your partner, including your career choice is something she shares with her FATHER. Still, I would have liked it if her choice of archeology hadn’t been about tracking him down. Ah well.

Anna
Anna
12 years ago

Alex Kingston is white, FWIW. She’s expressed confusion that people perceive her as being mixed race and I have to admit I don’t see it either

…and now I can’t find the interview, dammit. But here’s an excerpt from an interview where she self-identifies as white: http://fuckyeahalexkingston.tumblr.com/post/8174140387/i-was-very-happy-with-the-relationship-but

Jessay (@jessay)
12 years ago

omg, tl;dr but

“In captivity”? Really? Does he mean “in a cage in my basement”?

TBQH I wouldn’t be surprised.

Fairly sure if the men of the world took a time out, women would be just fine since *gasp* women do things to.

If all of the men of the world decided to boycott work tomorrow it would make my current job search a hell of a lot easier.

But, you know, if a woman plays it safe and doesn’t accept a drink she doesn’t see poured herself from a man she’s never met and doesn’t accept a ride home from a strange man she’s never met, it’s all “WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, YOU MAN HATER?!?! WHAT, DO YOU THINK ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS?!?!?11!?!”

Can’t fucking win when the goalposts keep moving.

This is one problem, another is that, even if she does all those things, there is still a possibility she can get raped by someone. I don’t agree with the false sense of security this type of mentality gives women. You can’t physically stare at your drink all night, even while in your hand, your drink can still be roofied. Even without roofies, you can still be overpowered. Even if you don’t leave your house, you can be intruded upon and raped in your home.

Meanwhile, that woman is living a very stinted life in which she is under constant fear of “can’t do this because I might get raped,” and will be blamed, at least partially, if she doesn’t adhere to these suggestions to a tee. When we base our actions of the possibility of someone else victimizing us we can’t actually live. I can’t form friendships out of fear they will use me, I can’t leave the house for fear of being mugged, and so on. And once people are following these rules and still being raped, it just adds a new set of boundaries. So where does it end? Basically, don’t exist and you won’t get raped.

Especially since it doesn’t even really work in reverse. “She’s got balls” is a compliment.

Right? When I tried to explain the difference between calling a man a mangina and calling a man a basement dweller, because one is specifically insinuated that the female sex is inferior while the other is a play on overall success in any person’s life, I was told I was brainwashed. Dude literally refused to understand the difference between the types of insults. And of course, he wouldn’t even touch upon the reality that there are no male-specific insults that really cut to the core of a man that aren’t specifically comparing him to a woman.

MRAs are too shortsighted to realize that their main beef is with capitalism, not feminism. The system’s not set up to give the tiniest fucks about anyone/anything but the bottom line.

This! So many of their arguments are rooted in other problems that have nothing to do with feminism. The drugging of young boys with ritalin? That’s a product of the drug companies who push product and an example of our broken, for-profit health care system. If we gathered every single real argument they have, we could not only illustrate how women deal with this stuff too, but how they’re a product of mostly corporate greed. I’ve tried to point this out to MRAs before but it’s like talking to a brick wall.

@hellkell — “It’s “hard to call out” because misandry is not real.” — the systemic misandry they claim to fight certainly isn’t, but individuals hating individual men? I’d imagine that happens about as often as a man is an asshole (and the reverse at equal rates)

Are there women who have been so jaded by negative relationships and experiences with men that they avoid and even hate men altogether? ABSOLUTELY! Just as there are men who have the same experiences with women. The difference being that the men went and founded an entire movement dedicated to this hatred and use completely unrelated, real issues as a front for their deep seeded misogyny. Sure, they claim that their aim includes fixing the male homeless problem, but their practice is nothing but, “Wah wah wah, evil women, evil feminists, feminsits cause male homelessness.” It’s so blatant that it’s absurd.

“Is someone still incel if they turned down someone?
Yes. Just because you aren’t willing to accept anyone who comes floating your way doesn’t mean your celibacy is suddenly voluntary.”

So, by this token, women are also more than capable of being involuntarily celibate, despite male claims to the contrary. Because while we can probably get sex any time if we drastically lower our standards, we can’t just get it with a man we find attractive at any given time, or even once in a while for some of us.

This is the problem with this movement, celibacy is only involuntary if literally nobody is willing to sleep with you. You could do what everyone else does and settle to get that first screw out of the way, or you could continue to cry about your inability to get a girlfriend because your standards are just too high for what you can realistically accomplish at this point in your life.

*edit to remove the fact that the Brad Pitt example was already used

I’m pretty realistic here. I have trouble finding men because I have a very specific type, I have already settled for someone I wasn’t attracted to once and it wasn’t fulfilling, so I am unwilling to settle again. That’s my own fault. I don’t expect sexy men to give me anything they don’t want to. If that means it’ll take me longer to find a new relationship, well, I gotta deal with it. So should I start a blog about being involuntarily celibate too?

zhinxy
12 years ago

Anna – Oh, yes, I was speaking of the actress who played the second incarnation, Mels, who was biracial Nina Touissant-White.

I wasn’t aware many people interpreted Kingston as biracial. Interesting.

Anna
Anna
12 years ago

Ah sorry, my mistake 🙂

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

zhinxy and Anna — I was thinking of Kingston, mental note made that she identifies as white. That may’ve been the mostly white but of Native descent part of my brain seeing her as like-me, idk. (Clearly I have no excuse now that I know better though, so brain you’d better make that note stick!)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

I wonder why people are IDing Kingston as biracial. Is it her hair? Because that hair texture is extremely common among white people in parts of the UK.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Oh and I think I solved “in captivity” and it’s…not good. The MRAs all seem the sort who think that parents should have complete control over their children, full stop, they only mention child abuse when it’s the mother even — or they flat out want to hit their kids. From this, I think “in captivity” is meant to imply “has never not been under a man’s thumb” — straight from controlled by her father to controlled by her husband.

“The drugging of young boys with ritalin? That’s a product of the drug companies who push product and an example of our broken, for-profit health care system.” — TRUFAX!!

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Cassandra — partly her hair, partly that she’s about the same tone I am and I usually get read as white. I think it was mostly me seeing her as like-me really. (And obviously I can only speak for myself here)

Jessay (@jessay)
12 years ago

@Agent
Noo I love Lost Boys. It’s just so fun, I don’t care. I have a thing for really bad movies I guess. Seriously, this is my umm, title banner or whatever you call it on facebook

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/424020_516683961173_213200069_30619105_1686474487_n.jpg

Hahaha, the big, muscly, oily guy playing sax in the beginning, the “what are you the flying nunn? 80” line, it’s just hilarious imo. Not serious at all.

And yeah, Deadgirl could’ve been such a great movie that provided serious social commentary but, nope. I hate that these creative ideas get thrown away due to lack of support and funding which would allow people to totally flesh out and realize their ideas. Meanwhile Battlship gets hundreds of millions in funding.

@Nanasha

I’ve seen Fido too but it’s been a while. I think I appreciated it. Maybe I should check that one out again. I think I definitely liked it, I just can’t remember specifically what I liked about it.

@Cassandra

Of course, Shawn of the Dead is classic zombie satire. One of the few to actually do it right. But there is such an oversaturation of cheap, b movies doing zombies all wrong, so when you get a good one every now and again you have to cling to it. I will watch pretty much any zombie movie once, but have a handful I will watch over and over. I love the concept of zombies and the social commentary the thoughtful films/books/television makes.

OOO, and I don’t watch Doctor Who but I do watch Torchwood. Hahah, I flove that show. Just putting that out there. Probably makes people obsessed with Doctor Who hate me.

And if you want to watch a hilaribad movie, may I suggest You Got Served? I just thought of it because of the talk about poor character development. There is actually a scene where one of the main characters is explaining his life story to his lifelong best friend as they shoot hoops. It’s like, wouldn’t his best friend know this already? And then there is an awesome dancing montage where they dance in the rain and dramatically call each other. And the line about how if they win the big dance competition, the $50,000 prize (which will be split between like 10-15 people) is “just enough money to change their lives,” as if they’re each winning 50k. That movie is comedy gold.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

It’s interesting because I think there are a decent number of white Brits who’re read as not-white when outside the UK (I’m one of them – people guess Persian, Turkish, or Hispanic all the time), but inside the UK people tend to just assume we’re Welsh.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

I have a deep love for both schlocky and serious zombie and vampire movies, but Lost Boys was just a bit too cheesy 80s for me. It’s the teen tone of it that bugs me, I think. Near Dark was a good one, though.

I refuse to see Twilight not just because it’s so painfully unfeminist, but because the ideas of vampires playing baseball makes me inner teenage goth cry.

Anna
Anna
12 years ago

I wonder why people are IDing Kingston as biracial. Is it her hair? Because that hair texture is extremely common among white people in parts of the UK.

This is exactly what I was thinking, Cassandra. I know in the interview she talks about it being easier for some people to see her as mixed race therefore black than to deal with their prejudice against interracial relationships, but it seems that many North American fans in genuinely see her as being mixed race. I’m guessing that thick curls just aren’t common among white people over there? Because here it really isn’t so rare.

Not to assume you’re N. American, Argenti, I don’t know. It’s just an innocent mistake that seems common 😀

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“OOO, and I don’t watch Doctor Who but I do watch Torchwood. Hahah, I flove that show. Just putting that out there. Probably makes people obsessed with Doctor Who hate me.”

Not me anyways, I’ve recommended Torchwood to people who find the doctor’s pacifism annoying. And Lost Boys was going really well until the last ~15 min, I really want to love it, I do!

“And yeah, Deadgirl could’ve been such a great movie that provided serious social commentary but, nope.” — yeah, that.

Cassandra — considering Doctor Who, and particularly Torchwood, make Welsh jokes aplenty, is assuming you’re Welsh really any better? I’m some tiny ancestral smidgen Welsh and I get the sheep jokes FFS >.< (if you don't know what I mean, consider yourself lucky?)

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Anna — no, I’m from and living in the US, and you’re right that those curls aren’t very common here.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

In terms of curly hair on white people being less common in the US, I’d say that’s probably true. In the UK it’s common enough that finding hairdressers who know how to cut that hair texture was easy, but in the US it took some work.

(My hair isn’t as thick as hers, but it is very curly and can get volumious if it’s blow dried.)

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

I’m also nocturnal, it’s 5:30am here XD

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

I wish a better director and production team had gotten a hold of the Deadgirl concept. So much potential for something subversive completely wasted.

Eh, some of my family ARE Welsh if you go back a few generations so I don’t mind people IDing me that way. The stereotypes about Scots definitely fit better, though!

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