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No, women aren’t better than men. But the guys at A Voice for Men are doing their best to make it seem that way.

Putting women on pedestals: Not good feminism.

Roger Ebert recently wrote a well-intentioned but misguided faux-feminist blog post setting forth the thesis that “Women are better than men.” Here’s the gist of it, from his opening paragraph:

Women are nicer than men. There are exceptions. Most people of both sexes are probably fairly nice, given the nature of their upbringing and opportunities. But in terms of their lifelong natures, women are kinder, more empathetic, more generous. And the sooner more of them take positions of power, the better our chances as a species.

Here’s how to respond appropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of Jill at Feministe:

I love me some Roger Ebert, but this is a big piece of crap. His point basically comes down to, “Women are nurturing and wonderful and non-violent, men are competitive and want to see boobs, because Evolution.” …  Most people are capable of great kindness; most people are capable of being total assholes. The degree to which any of us displays any of these traits depends largely on circumstance and partly on individual personality and temperament. Those things are certainly influenced by gender, but our gender does not in fact hard-wire us to be nice or awful.

Here’s how to respond inappropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of John the Other at A Voice for Men:

[Y]es, it’s another one of those articles. Men are bad, women are good, men are worse, women are better, men are the worst thing ever, and women are just the best, squee!!! …

Ebert, in his attempt to ingratiate himself to a mostly female audience has done what countless other approval seeking men have done. Simply, to metaphorically prostrate himself – declaring – look, I’m a good man, not like those other bad men, you see how I heap scorn on them and flatter you? Approve of me!…

Ebert’s male-abasing and false esteem is a tired and monotonous repetition of standard gender ideology.

Sing along with me, you all know the words!

Women are better then men!

Boom boom boom!

They do everything better than them!

Boom boom boom!

 

Ladies are generally nicer!

Quack quack quack!

Their thoughts and feelings are higher!

Quack quack quack!

 

Girls and women are smarter!

Bing! Bang! Smash!

To keep up, men must try harder!

Clang! Bang! Bash!

 

Well, there’s a thoughtful argument.

Naturally, the commenters at AVfM are happy to join in the fun.

Shrek6 trots out the old “we hunted the mammoth” argument:

[E]verything on this earth from the knickers these women wear on their fat buts, all the way through to just about every single thing they touch in their day, up to and including homes, buildings, cars, trains, rockets, and the food they stuff down their throats, has all been either invented or produced by those useless ‘less than’ human, men. What a waste of space those men are!

Yep, I can feel a man strike coming on.

If all the men and boys in this world pulled the pin and sat on their buts for a month, the world would come to a grinding halt and anarchy would reign. All the women would be seen crying, screeching at men with gnashing teeth. Then they would eventually come begging.

Yep, that day is coming to these over indulged women. That day is coming!

Andybob, meanwhile, offers this analysis of what he sees as the gender enemy:

There are four main categories of women:

1) Women who care about the men in their lives, but never make the connection that their naked misandry contributes to the misery of these men. Most of those women who whooped and cackled when RegisterHer lifer, Sharon Osborne, expressed delight when an innocent man was genitally mutilated belong in this category. They would not have cackled quite so much if someone had brutalised their sons. Other women’s sons? No problem. It has ever been thus: white feather campaign in WWI.

2) Women who may pay lip service to caring about the men in their lives, but in reality, see them in the same way they see all other men – as utility objects to be manipulated and exploited. Such women don’t think of the men in their lives at all, except when they want something from them.

3) Feminists. These range from the mild (man-hating bigots), to the radical (man-hating bigots who advocate genocide and eugenics).

4) Women MRAs. These are rare women (I’ve never seen one, even in captivity), who regard men as actual people with collective and innate value. I can count them on two hands with fingers to spare.

Men have been struggling for many decades now with nary a peep from women. There is a reason for this.

They don’t care.

Feminism has provided today’s pampered princesses with the privilege-stuffed, consequence-free Nirvana that they believe they’re entitled to. Do you really think they can be swayed with reason and logic? Have you ever tried to discuss men’s rights with women? They will show concern for some imaginary, hypothetical female from some Third World country before they give two shits about the son, brother or friend standing in front of them. …

We are in a battle against a powerful, well-financed and establishment-supported entity which has succeeded in stealing our rights in every sphere. This has been done with the silent collusion of vast numbers of women. As such, a few “derogatory remarks” are the least they deserve.

Guys, I hate to have to tell you this, but you’re sort of making it look like Ebert might have a point.

Happily, I know that you all are statistical outliers, and that your raving misogyny (while it may reflect views common amongst AVFM readers, as evidenced by the upvotes those comments got) doesn’t reflect the views of most men. Heck, even some Men’s Rights Redditors are getting sick of your bullshit.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

I love Satoshi Kon. Along with Terry Pratchett he was one of the most genuinely female-friendly male creative forces around.

(RIP)

There are some live-action directors with a similar outlook, though. Seriously, check out When A Woman Ascends The Stairs, or The Sea Is Watching.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri- They actually filmed “The Lost Boys” in my city, which is why it’s a tradition to play that damn terrible movie EVERY FREAKING YEAR when all the new college students start at the university. *barf* Well, at least the vampires don’t sparkle.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Or if we’re talking Bechdel test specifically, I keep saying, NANA passes the test in the very first scene. I know it’s a silly movie starring a pop star, but it’s still a great movie about female friendships too.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@CassandraSays-

Thanks for the suggestions- I’m going to check them out!

I can only hope that Miyazaki-san sticks around on this planet to create a couple more features, because other than Satoshi Kon, he’s got one of the best imaginations in animation at this point in time.

Although Mushi-shi was STUNNINGLY AMAZING and all I could think was “MOAR!” when it ended. I’m so sad that the series ended.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Fido sounds like it did campy right, whereas Dead Girl was doing well enough up until the last ~15 min (which is so Lost Boys)

Anyone else seen Plan 9 from Outer Space? Arguably the worst movie EVAR?

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

It should probably go without saying that Dead Girl fails the Bechdel test (though, not as bad as you’d think, they do have random high school girls a plenty, they just aren’t named I don’t think)

And new series Doctor Who seems to pass in every episode, I’m trying to find an exception and failing (this is impressive when you consider some episodes have a cast of <10)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

My favorite zombie movie is still Shaun of the Dead. It’s the British understatement, like when the mom says that the zombies were “a little bit bitey”.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@CassandraSays- I’ve always found it weird when people discount something just because it involves something like pop stars or “girly stuff.” There is actually a huge portion of Kiki’s Delivery Service that involves Kiki going to hang out with this girl who loves to paint and they talk about what really drives them and inspires them. It’s a bunch of girl talk, but it’s really deep and meaningful and important. The idea that the only things that girls talk about are boys and make up is really trivializing to what girls tend to talk about. And even when make up is involved in the conversation topic, there’s a lot of subtext and other stuff going on as well. I mean, it’s not like I can’t watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic just because they go to the spa sometimes or enjoy fancy dress from time to time. And people can say whatever they want about Rarity, but her character is often fantastically portrayed as deftly skirting the line between that somewhat “stereotypical” feminine persona while also being a hard-working, driven and dynamic individual.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Fuck, Doctor Who does fail — that Pirate episode Amy is the only female character, besides the siren, but she doesn’t speak at all.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

That’s why I love NANA – the two main characters definitely talk about boys, but they talk about all kinds of other stuff too. It’s a friendship that feels very real. Of course it was written by a woman.

What surprised and interested me was what a huge number of male fans it has. Some of the biggest rock stars in Japan were so bummed out that they weren’t able to contribute to the soundtrack that they ended up making a second album so they could all write songs for it. It made me wonder if more men would be willing to watch female-centered movies if the female characters weren’t usually so crap and unrealistic.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri-

I don’t know about that. I saw Ed Wood (which was the movie about making Plan 9) and that was bad enough, but seeing Bella Legosi pretending to struggle against the fake paper mache octopus had me in stitches.

I think that “The Room” was probably worse, though. I mean, it’s basically a 2 hour “Nice Guys Finish Last” PSA. Even though you can MST3K that, it’s still a fucking awful film and the misogyny comes off of the film in waves like you’re in a nasty sauna full of MRA STENCH.

@CassandraSays-
I liked “Shaun of the Dead” but my husband can’t stand the part where they eat someone alive. I *really* liked the movie “AAAAAAA! ZOMBIES!”- it was a bit campy but it was both hilarious and well written. The best part is that it’s from the point of view of the zombies and they don’t actually think they’re zombies, so it’s constantly switching back and forth from their perspective and the perspective of the non-zombies. Pure classic-sauce. I think that the only zombie films that can reasonably hold up nowadays are either zombie films that are straight-up awesome horror (such as 28 Days Later) or have that snark/camp humor that takes the situation seriously but adds in a bunch of fun stuff as well (throwing LPs at zombies? Make sure not to throw the good ones!).

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“It made me wonder if more men would be willing to watch female-centered movies if the female characters weren’t usually so crap and unrealistic.” — considering he number of men I’ve known who loved The Virgin Suicides, probably. (Why am I sure I don’t want to know what MRAs would say to that movie?)

Heck, most of the men I’ve known have enjoyed Girl, Interrupted, and that doesn’t pass the reverse Bechdel test. Or does it somehow? o.O?

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri- I love “Hark! A Vagrant”s take on Dr. Who:

http://twitpic.com/418ivr

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

I’ve seen Ed Wood too, and it…gives the end result too much credit…though seeing Johnny Depp go on about how great angora is was excellent…

It’s lacking in a coherent plot because of how much was cut due to the lack of budget, and how much the Christian funders made him cut. And the props are…they have UFOs on strings and sticks, that you can clearly see…

It’d be campy funny if they weren’t trying so hard to be serious about it.

Zombieland is excellently campy (and passes, assuming the women and men using non-names counts) — goodness do I need to watch 28 Days Later again though, preferably while way less drunk, maybe I’d actually remember it then >.<

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

The thing is, interesting characters are a big part of what makes a movie worth watching. If the only female characters on offer are cardboard cutouts, of course there isn’t much of an audience for those movies. And producers then conclude that people just aren’t interested in watching female characters, and the cycle continues.

Another great female character, though it fails the Bechdel test because most of the movie is focused on her interaction with only two characters, since she’s a vampire and all – Let The Right One In.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri-

My only complaint about Zombieland is the incessant dig at fat people. Seriously. “The fat people get taken down by zombies first” is bullshit. Especially considering that the main character sits around on his pasty ass drinking mountain dew all day and probably is only still non-zombified out of sheer luck. *AND* there’s the fact that the whole time they’re both kinda questing for PREPACKAGED SNACK FOODS OF DOOOOOOM (ie: Twinkines- IE: the POSTER CHILD for the “why you get fat” moralizing in our society).

BLARGH. Other than that, pretty fun. Especially the parts involving Bill Murray.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

LOL! those garbage can things are the aliens that led to the doctor being the last of his species…oh if kicking them was enough to defeat them!

And the new series sidekicks are generally good looking (one could argue this regarding Donna) — but none of them are just passive little ladies — the one that’s in love with him and thus rather typical ends up becoming a goddess temporarily to save him…and then ends up seriously bad ass eventually (she’s the first in the new series and they kind of develop both the doctor post-time-war and her alongside each other)

But yeah, those trash can robots aren’t robots, they have a creature inside them, and they’re so evil I recognize the species from that little >.<

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Nanasha — my apologies, I haven’t seen it in a couple years now and had completely forgotten that bit about the fat people die first — that is bullshit. Especially since yeah, the twinkies are wtf the plot is about!

Bill Murray is excellent in it though.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

I loved Zombieland, especially given that it could so easily have turned into a Nice Guy lament, but didn’t.

Nanasha
Nanasha
12 years ago

@CassandraSays-

That’s the part that has always really pissed me off about “strong female character!!!111eleventyone!111!!!” shows. The show tries SO FUCKING HARD to demonstrate that this girl can kick ass while wearing 4 inch heels and looking like a stripper and not smudging her “blow me” lipstick, but she’s still just as two dimensional as the girl who just kind of does whatever the main male character says.

And let’s not even start going on how women of color, queer women, older women, fat women, and women with disabilities are treated or erased from the majority of media. That shit right there just starts making me want to bite things.

The only way a person can really enjoy a character is when that character develops distinctly human qualities. A lot of the time, writers seem to use shorthand like “oh, she’s a mom, which obviously means she’s caring and loving so I don’t have to explain or demonstrate this” or “he’s obviously a really good person because he constantly walks old ladies across the street.” Instead of creating meaningful characters, we get the same old cardboard cutouts and are told to put on the 3D glasses in order to see them in more dimensions, but it’s still just a bunch of cardboard cutouts only now we’re getting a headache watching them.

Wetherby
Wetherby
12 years ago

Anyone else seen Plan 9 from Outer Space? Arguably the worst movie EVAR?

A film that’s more or less consistently entertaining (and, to be fair, sometimes even intentionally) couldn’t come anywhere near that achievement. Certainly, Manos: The Hands of Fate is noticeably worse in both technical (lack of) achievement, pacing and any particularly good reason to keep watching.

Ed Wood, on the other hand, is a masterpiece. It could so easily have gone down the tired Michael Medved-style “let’s all point and laugh at the incompetent hack” route, but Tim Burton really understood where Wood was coming from, and recognised that he had far more in common with him than otherwise – the only really significant difference being the enormous talent gap.

Oh, and thanks for the reminder that I really should get round to watching Paprika, which I ordered as soon as I read Satoshi Kon’s obituaries, but it’s been sitting on my shelves ever since.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Actually going back to anime again, Paranoia Agent is a perfect example of how to do characterisation in an organic, unforced way that’s not just a series of visual shortcuts.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“And let’s not even start going on how women of color, queer women, older women, fat women, and women with disabilities are treated or erased from the majority of media” — that’s one other thing Doctor Who manages fairly well — his second new series companion is a woman of color, and the one after her isn’t exactly old, but is older than the usual “hot sidekick” (and not hot, or that thin) — they’ve got Captain Jack as well, who is, per Torchwood, omnisexual (aliens too I think is the point there)

They do still fail on disabilities, generally, though the tenth doctor has himself a good case of survivor’s guilt.

Wetherby — worse than Plan 9 technically as a former stage crew techie, I am impressed.

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Of course, Doctor Who stands out as actually having more than token diversity, so yeah, maybe take that with some salt?

Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Paranoia Agent actually looked pretty good, that’s now on my queue too. I watched some on adult swim I think it was but anime makes no sense disjointed like that >.<

And that might be why anime fails less — they actually do overarching plots more than one off episodes. The latter may give too much leeway to not develop even the main characters? (Or to develop them horribly? *cough*House*cough*)

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