Roger Ebert recently wrote a well-intentioned but misguided faux-feminist blog post setting forth the thesis that “Women are better than men.” Here’s the gist of it, from his opening paragraph:
Women are nicer than men. There are exceptions. Most people of both sexes are probably fairly nice, given the nature of their upbringing and opportunities. But in terms of their lifelong natures, women are kinder, more empathetic, more generous. And the sooner more of them take positions of power, the better our chances as a species.
Here’s how to respond appropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of Jill at Feministe:
I love me some Roger Ebert, but this is a big piece of crap. His point basically comes down to, “Women are nurturing and wonderful and non-violent, men are competitive and want to see boobs, because Evolution.” … Most people are capable of great kindness; most people are capable of being total assholes. The degree to which any of us displays any of these traits depends largely on circumstance and partly on individual personality and temperament. Those things are certainly influenced by gender, but our gender does not in fact hard-wire us to be nice or awful.
Here’s how to respond inappropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of John the Other at A Voice for Men:
[Y]es, it’s another one of those articles. Men are bad, women are good, men are worse, women are better, men are the worst thing ever, and women are just the best, squee!!! …
Ebert, in his attempt to ingratiate himself to a mostly female audience has done what countless other approval seeking men have done. Simply, to metaphorically prostrate himself – declaring – look, I’m a good man, not like those other bad men, you see how I heap scorn on them and flatter you? Approve of me!…
Ebert’s male-abasing and false esteem is a tired and monotonous repetition of standard gender ideology.
Sing along with me, you all know the words!
Women are better then men!
Boom boom boom!
They do everything better than them!
Boom boom boom!
Ladies are generally nicer!
Quack quack quack!
Their thoughts and feelings are higher!
Quack quack quack!
Girls and women are smarter!
Bing! Bang! Smash!
To keep up, men must try harder!
Clang! Bang! Bash!
Well, there’s a thoughtful argument.
Naturally, the commenters at AVfM are happy to join in the fun.
Shrek6 trots out the old “we hunted the mammoth” argument:
[E]verything on this earth from the knickers these women wear on their fat buts, all the way through to just about every single thing they touch in their day, up to and including homes, buildings, cars, trains, rockets, and the food they stuff down their throats, has all been either invented or produced by those useless ‘less than’ human, men. What a waste of space those men are!
Yep, I can feel a man strike coming on.
If all the men and boys in this world pulled the pin and sat on their buts for a month, the world would come to a grinding halt and anarchy would reign. All the women would be seen crying, screeching at men with gnashing teeth. Then they would eventually come begging.
Yep, that day is coming to these over indulged women. That day is coming!
Andybob, meanwhile, offers this analysis of what he sees as the gender enemy:
There are four main categories of women:
1) Women who care about the men in their lives, but never make the connection that their naked misandry contributes to the misery of these men. Most of those women who whooped and cackled when RegisterHer lifer, Sharon Osborne, expressed delight when an innocent man was genitally mutilated belong in this category. They would not have cackled quite so much if someone had brutalised their sons. Other women’s sons? No problem. It has ever been thus: white feather campaign in WWI.
2) Women who may pay lip service to caring about the men in their lives, but in reality, see them in the same way they see all other men – as utility objects to be manipulated and exploited. Such women don’t think of the men in their lives at all, except when they want something from them.
3) Feminists. These range from the mild (man-hating bigots), to the radical (man-hating bigots who advocate genocide and eugenics).
4) Women MRAs. These are rare women (I’ve never seen one, even in captivity), who regard men as actual people with collective and innate value. I can count them on two hands with fingers to spare.
Men have been struggling for many decades now with nary a peep from women. There is a reason for this.
They don’t care.
Feminism has provided today’s pampered princesses with the privilege-stuffed, consequence-free Nirvana that they believe they’re entitled to. Do you really think they can be swayed with reason and logic? Have you ever tried to discuss men’s rights with women? They will show concern for some imaginary, hypothetical female from some Third World country before they give two shits about the son, brother or friend standing in front of them. …
We are in a battle against a powerful, well-financed and establishment-supported entity which has succeeded in stealing our rights in every sphere. This has been done with the silent collusion of vast numbers of women. As such, a few “derogatory remarks” are the least they deserve.
Guys, I hate to have to tell you this, but you’re sort of making it look like Ebert might have a point.
Happily, I know that you all are statistical outliers, and that your raving misogyny (while it may reflect views common amongst AVFM readers, as evidenced by the upvotes those comments got) doesn’t reflect the views of most men. Heck, even some Men’s Rights Redditors are getting sick of your bullshit.
*grumble* post-posting thought — the “lol” about size and pillowcases isn’t about what size you wear but at the thought of a pillowcase nightie.
Ok here I found his comment http://manboobz.com/2012/04/01/lets-shame-some-virgins/comment-page-2/#comment-141429
I find it hypocritical of him to complain about not having any options for having sex when he obviously does have an option and has decided against it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making a choice not to see a sex worker, I do think it’s silly to continue to whine that women are denying you sex after you’ve made that choice.
Incelexceptforprostitutesandfreecell
dot tumblr dot com.
What can I say? I like ’em to rhyme.
So wait, his problem with seeing a sex worker is that he’d have to tell his future girlfriends or that would be lying? Your sex partners are not entitled to know who you’ve slept with. Just the info needed to determine STD risk, eg so get tested when you get a girlfriend and then you can honestly say “yes I’ve had sex before, but I’ve been tested since” — simple!
This is probably why my FWB and I “work” though…I know ze’s got other partners, I don’t need to know who or how many, not-monogamy is enough info to know *condoms!*
Hell, I’m being too generous implying your partners have a right to know if you’re a virgin or not, the concept is kind of laughable, particularly for determining STD risk, this is why I tend to say sextimes not sex >.< (oral and anal can both also transmit those after all, so can kissing) — it’s really not your partner’s business.
And anyways, if your partner is going to judge you, you need a new partner.
@Snowy
That’s why I’m highly skeptical of most people who claim to be incel. The chances of someone having no way of getting sex is so damn miniscule. Most often it’s people not willing to sleep with people that aren’t their type, or not wanting to see a sex worker. Which is cool, that’s who I am too, but I own that, even during my frequent dry spells.
Chris, it is not mean of us to not discuss your sex life. This is not a blog about your sex life. This blog has a subject already. You say you don’t feel entitled to sex, and I honestly don’t know if that’s the case, but you absolutely feel entitled to our time and attention regardless of what was being discussed prior to your arrival.
I’m totally done giving dating tips to the random men that show up here, like it’s Man Boobz Teaches Me How To Attract Women Day every day of every week of every month.
I’ve met plenty of people who are single and who don’t have relationship prospects. Most of them are just not willing to settle for someone who isn’t what they really want in a relationship partner.
I think that mainly, the problem is that many people internalize that not being with someone = failure and this is fairly common with both men and women but it’s for different reasons. For men, the general reason tends to be a question of his masculinity (if he can’t get “laid”) while with women, it’s generally a question of her ability to be womanly enough to “get a man.” Heterosexist tropes aside, this is a very problematic view because it BLAMES PEOPLE FOR NOT HAVING A RELATIONSHIP instead of encouraging people to be HAPPY WITH WHAT WILL MAKE THEM HAPPY. The pressure one feels to get into a relationship is not about the person that they’re dating, it’s about societal expectations and how their friends and families view them. Which cheapens building relationships with romantic partners, because basically it becomes about the appearances and not about the actual relationship.
Of course, it’s also about priorities. One of the things that I highly prioritized in my life was finding a compatible relationship partner who was both a good friend as well as sexually compatible. It wasn’t easy, and it was a lot of work (and fun, lol), but I had to dedicate myself to it. You can’t get a great job or a great university scholarship/admittance just fall into your life with very few exceptions, so why do people seem to think that relationship partners just magically appear with little to no effort?
It is a FULL TIME JOB to get yourself out into the world and meet up with lots of people to see if they are compatible. In my situation, I was not willing to sacrifice who I am inherently just to get a relationship or a quick sexual encounter, and that sucked and I was sad, but you know what? That’s part of the whole experience!
I think that the problem with how these MRAs view relationships is that they seem to think it’s this weird robotic magical thing. That once you “get it” it’s all just perfect and there are never any problems because women are item/commodities, and once you can add her to your museum of stuff, you will have unlocked all the Life Achievements in the Real World.
But people (and love, sex, relating to others) are messy and complicated and they change with their experiences. I am not the same person I was when I was 2 or 12 or 22, yet I can still look back at that person and understand her. The important part is whether or not my life partner is willing to grow with me and our relationship continues to be healthy and happy for the both of us, not just a simple equation of “insert X, Y, and Z behaviors/gifts, receive love.”
Consider the gauntlet thrown.
The issue with that is that you want *a* girlfriend. Could be any girl, so long as she’s your girlfriend. That’s not a healthy relationship.
A healthy relationship would be “Here is an actual human being, whom I find attractive because of this and that and the other thing and this hobby we both have in common, and I would like to pursue a romantic relationship with this person”.
Chris, what are your hobbies?
But Viscaria, if you don’t help, how will I ever learn how babby is formed?
Nanasha — that was brilliantly well said, and given the social factors that produce that sort of thought, I’m not sure you could discuss it without it being hetero sexist (dating while not cis and/or not straight really isn’t the same, and there’s certainly no trans/genderqueer or GLB disney movies!)
“The pressure one feels to get into a relationship is not about the person that they’re dating, it’s about societal expectations and how their friends and families view them.” — what you’re discussing only really applies if “how their friends and families view them” doesn’t involve coming out.
Chris has got to be the absolute dullest of the dull.
Sometimes “I want a girlfriend/boyfriend” doesn’t actually mean a person wants a girlfriend/boyfriend.
Sometimes it means “I want to have a reliable sex partner.”
Sometimes it means “All my friends are partnered up and I feel alienated from doing things with them.”
Sometimes it means “I just want people to get off my back and stop questioning my ability to be a loved human being.”
Sometimes it means “I’m insecure and want someone to love me because I don’t like myself all that much.”
And sometimes it does mean that a person wants to be in a relationship but they’re just not sure how to go about getting into one that really satisfies and fulfills them.
I think that the problem is that Chris is trying to ask the wrong people about what his goals and desires are, what is underneath his plaintive plea for “a girlfriend.” Who he should really be asking is HIMSELF.
Just FTR, Chris hasn’t said anything in an hour and half, it might be time to lay off him. Or at least time to stop expecting him to reply.
Tulgey — try yahoo, it’s probably where Chris has gone. (Whatever, so long as he’s not still here right?)
Aww, but I just got here! I was busy an hour and a half ago.
Chris is still trying to guilt-trip the commenters on this misogyny-mocking blog into giving him dating advice? Really?
Clearly he has no sense of irony.
From that Wikipedia discussion:
lol! I wasn’t trying to close discussion on him, more thinking that “Sometimes it means “I’m insecure and want someone to love me because I don’t like myself all that much.”” is his problem and continuing to mock him will only make it worse (and thus make him more annoying for whomever has to listen to him next)
Not like I could make you stop talking about him anyways! And really, the discussion of how women are not vending machines might need to be sticky posted or something, that does seem to happen at least once a week.
Blockquotes got messed up. The last line is from me.
I think that a lot of internet “whining” a la Chris can be chalked up largely to people who are used to posting every little thing that comes into their heads onto the Internet and then expecting everyone else to magically have the answers. Unfortunately, the answers for most people can’t really be easily obtained simply by following social norms and “keeping up appearances.” Most people who truly try to “keep up with the Joneses” find themselves unfulfilled and empty inside, which is why you see so many people’s lives just suddenly “fall apart” some point near their middle age, when they finally realize that they’ve bought all the shiny toys and taken all the matching sweatervest photos with their 2.5 kids and spouse, and yet no one came up to them and told them that they won at life, so they finally get to the point where they realize…oh shit…..this is *IT* and they freak the fuck out.
I realized (at least for myself) that it is much better to be who I am now than tie myself up in appearances until I snap and go crazy some point later on in my life. Sure, people make assumptions about me, and they can judge me until the cows come home, but I’ll be much happier in the long run doing my best to make sure that my life fits what I truly want out of it, instead of simply living a Big Box life in a Walmart World.
“For example, a woman who has terminal cancer and a colostomy bag, and is confined to a wheelchair – how would she get sex?” OK. You’re right. In extreme cases like that, there are women who are involuntarily celibate”
So. Much. Fail. (try “and uses a wheelchair” for one, for two, so fucking what? the *dying* part is going to be a problem regardless one’s gender)
Cassandra — it didn’t help any that I tried giving him the basic “well stop trying online dating then!…and use your hands” level advice >.< (FTR, that was before it turned into a guilt trip) — I have this nagging desire to treat people who can string a sentence together without insults like they mean remotely well. I should probably really know better.
Is the women are not sex vending machines issue covered on the feminism 101 blog? If not it really should be, given that I have never seen a feminist blog on which random dudes don’t show up and demand that the commenters teach them how to get laid.
I’m totally inept at sewing and don’t have a machine, BUT I live in a place where this kind of work is done on every block, including around the corner from me yards away, so thanks so much for bringing that to my attention. This might be doable even for me.
“Most people who truly try to “keep up with the Joneses” find themselves unfulfilled and empty inside…” — yeah, again, one has to be straight and cis for that to even be an option.
Nanasha don’t take that as criticism, I agree with you re: heterosexual relationships between cis partners, just noting it’s not even that “simple” if you’re not both. But managing to make it to middle age without that freak out is already a heaping amount of privilege.
“until the cows come home” is the strangest phrase, they do that nightly!