Arthur Goldwag, the author of the SPLC’s recent report on hatred in the Men’s Rights movement, has now responded to some of the hysteria his article provoked amongst MRAs. As Goldwag notes, contrary to what most MRAs seemed to conclude from the report,
the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit. But we didcall out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence.
Thomas James Ball, for example, who was hailed as a martyr on so many men’s rights forums, called for arson attacks on courthouses and police stations. The Norwegian mass killer Anders Breivik wrote extensively about the evils of feminism. We included as much as we did about Register-Her.com because it is so intimidating to its targets, not all of whom are criminals. When Elam accused Vliet Tiptree, a pseudonymous contributor to RadFem Hub, of “calling for extermination of half the human race; the male half, that is,” he offered a cash reward for her real identity. The names and locations of several candidates were publically aired.
Goldwag also takes a look at some of the radical feminists that have become boogeywomen for so many MRAs, and deals with other MRA complaints.
If you’re a regular reader of Man Boobz you’ll want to read the whole thing.
The Men’s Rights subreddit has already linked to Goldwag’s article, which has provoked not only the predictable SPLC-bashing but also some criticism of A Voice for Men and Paul Elam.
Obviously Elam and other MRAs will respond to Goldwag’s latest as well. Post links in the comments below as you find them, and I’ll add them to this post.
EDITED TO ADD: And, right on schedule, AVfM responds to Goldwag’s response. It’s a John the Other post, so be prepared to read a lot of words saying not very much.
On his own blog, Goldwag responds to Mr. The Other.
Goldwag’s piece also got some criticism from the STFUfauxminists Tumblr blog for quoting a RadFem known for her transphobia.
I’ll add more links as I find them.
ETA 2: MORE LINKS
@Blackbloc: re: online radfems…You may be right. Honestly, I don’t spend a lot of time on radfem blogs (the transphobia on RadFemHub and a couple others I’ve seen makes me sick, so I don’t spend a lot of time there). There are a couple that take a stand against transphobia (I Hate the Patriarchy, Womanist Musings) that I enjoy reading, though. But most of my exposure to radical feminism comes from offline experiences, books, friends I’ve made at the Rape Crisis Center where I volunteer.
I tend to identify with Radical Feminism because a) off all the various feminist political theories, it makes the most sense to me, and b) as someone who is anti-porn (but against censorship), anti-prostitution (though pro rights for sex workers) , and finds the “choice feminism” or “girly feminism” or whatever you want to call it deeply problematic, I relate better to radical feminists and don’t have to spend a lot of time defending my personal feelings on exploitation. “Pro-sex” (Christ, I hate that term, but I don’t know how else to label it) feminism has really won out, and my views are unpopular, so it’s nice to have a space where I don’t have to justify myself.
But in the end, we’re all feminists, and our disagreements are minor compared to the important buisness of working towards equality and an end to violence. (Well, that, and killing all male baby boys…oh, wait, no. I’m sorry, I’m getting us confused with the Biblical Eqyptians in the Moses story. Happens all the time, so sorry. That’s not a feminist position at all.)
Just added these links to the piece. As has been mentioned, AVfM has responded. Goldwage has responded to them. And his piece has also gotten criticism from a Tumblr blog for quoting a transphobic RadFem.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/the-continuing-education-of-arthur-goldwag/
http://arthurgoldwag.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/the-education-of-arthur-goldwag/
http://stfufauxminists.tumblr.com/post/23205594232/southern-poverty-law-center-quotes-anti-trans-bigot
@Rutee
Did you mean radical feminists?
Yeah, I did. Sorry about that, I meant to start that with “Trans women aren’t the only thing they suck at. Radfems are also bad at..” and rewrote it halfway through without proper editting.
yeeeaaaah, no. what frs does is find any news story that has something to do with rape and twists it to fit into their grand false rape conspiracy where no rapes ever happen. and then of course they tie it all together with the dumb little false equivalency your waving for all your might here, that point to anything and saying ‘hey, this looks like rape’ is goes against the presumption of innocence, a term neither of you seems to understand.
did this make sense to you when you were writing it? you’re saying that the dude who’s solution to ‘some innocent people are convicted of rape’ is ‘let’s accuse the majority of rape victims of being liars’ isn’t an extremist and a fanatic. think about it for a minute.
a radfem response. fyi
http://radfemworldnews.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/splc-follows-up-on-mra-concerns-finds-them-ridiculous-and-willfully-obtuse/
wait fuck
did this make sense to you when you were writing it? you’re saying that the dude who’s solution to ‘some innocent people are convicted of rape’ is ‘let’s accuse the majority of rape victims of being liars’ isn’t an extremist and a fanatic. think about it for a minute because this:
is exactly what harlan is doing.
better
Also, having had the chance to read the lackwit’s little post, dude, let me just respond to you directly, since you are too cowardly to engage XD
First off, stop trying to appropriate the struggles of trans women. It makes you an asshole. Second, trans women aren’t just discriminated against because Radfems think they are dudes*. It is because they transition that earns special ire. Which is kind of the way you can tell there’s no such thing as misandry; dudes, qua dudes, are not discriminated against. You are stooping to try to steal the problems of trans women because you can’t point to dudes getting discriminated against** just because they are dudes. You can find the oppression of race differing in its expression against black men and black women, but those black dudes aren’t being discriminated against for their dudeness.
*Which, by the way, seriously, fuck you. Cis-sexism is not a hatred of men.
**Even if we lived in the fantasy world where most radfems really hated men, and seriously, if you want to see an exercise in contrasts, put radfemhub up tab-by-tab with The Spearhead, that’d still not matter, unless this fantasy world were one in which dudes were actually discriminated against. Here in the real world, the limited anger and irritation by men that is only remotely freely expressed by some radical feminists is much closer to me calling you a honky. To say the ‘anti-man’ language of Radfems is even remotely equivalent to the embedded misogyny of our culture is… laughable. And that’d be if those things *were* common, which they are not.
eeb – Womanist Musings does not identify as a radical feminist blog, (Or feminist blog, Renee is a womanist, hence the name.) She’s had radfem guest posters, though.
Blacbloc – My experience is similar to yours. The radical feminists I still find worthwhile and even worth identifying with are in the anarchist milieu, none that I can think of out of it who aren’t trans exclusionary.
…cut off. Trans exclusionary, problematic around sex work, or otherwise iffy.
@zhinxy: You’re right, thank you. I meant the guest posters–she does a great job of getting guests who understand intersectionality (something a lot of radfems struggle with, unfortunately). It’s one of my favorite blogs–and a great place to read about disability now that the Disabled Feminists blog has shut down–and I appriciate her perspective. I didn’t mean to erase her idenity. Sorry.
@EEB — sorry to have added to your annoyance. My issue with radfems is the transphobia mostly, they’ve made it very clear they have no interest in anyone like myself supporting them, and in that regard, they are like the MRAs — but you’re right, that’s about the only thing they have in common. (And I see this has been addressed at length)
@Tulgey Logger — “PS I hate men.**” — actual true facts! I do actually hate SOME men, my father tops that list without trying for example (should he decide to be sober for more than 5 min after he wakes up, maybe I’ll reconsider, but I have a thing against drunk assholes…)
Then again, I have various male feminist friends, I don’t hate David here, nor Pecunium, and I’m sure there are other male feminists I’d like plenty too — common human decency really does go a long way.
And I *think* the Mother’s Day post has a link to the post with AnnChrist’s SN change, if you were curious on that.
@Deon Gillian — “What’s not up for debate is the fact that false rape accusations are real and bad. How can anyone honestly claim otherwise?” — pretty sure the argument isn’t that they aren’t bad, but that compared to rape, and the ridiculously low conviction rate, they aren’t actual a problem.
I see your next comment puts the rate at about 6%, best statistics on what percent of rape cases result in conviction? 5% — and only 3% actually get jail time. So yeah, which of these is the bigger issue — that 97% of rapists walk free, or that 6% of the accused were falsely accused? (Does that statistic take into account actual rapes where the police are the ones who fucked up?)
@Rutee — “Also, having had the chance to read the lackwit’s little post, dude, let me just respond to you directly, since you are too cowardly to engage XD” — which post? If you meant me I was asleep for one, and not a cis woman for another…but I made no mention of race, so I think it probably not at me…what post though? I’d like to read what you’re replying to but can’t sort wtf that is (I need caffeine still, just blame that if it should be obvious XD )
*goes to make tea before ze says something really dumb as opposed to just dense*
@ argenti
i think rutee’s talking about this: http://antimanboobz.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/breaking-rutee-makes-an-ass-of-herself-again/
Thank you Sharculese
For all he gets wrong, he got transmisogyny right?! The mind, it boggles!
No, not you, the dude who thinks he is the Dave Futrelle of MRAs.
All right, someone find me an Incubator. I will become a magical girl if the wish “Make all male supremacists shut up and realize how stupid their cause is” will be granted.
lauralot89 — will an empty fish tank with halogen lights work? You can borrow mine if so (I knew I was holding onto the 10 gallon for a reason!)
Rutee — got it, sorry about that, that was my brain on graaah just woke up >.<
Reblogged this on You think I just don't understand, but I don't believe you. and commented:
LOL at my known transphobia
Another from Goldwag:
http://arthurgoldwag.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/paul-elam-weighs-in/
But wow, Cathy Brennan (bugbrennan) is terrible.
Bugbrennan, you harass people for being trans. That is very transphobic as far as most people are concerned.
Having a reputation for hating trans people is not something I imagine a non transphobic person would respond to with “LOL.”
Yeah, I’ve been looking at bugbrennan’s tweets, and now I need brain bleach. Or kittens. Terrible, terrible person. If she starts harassing people here, can we ban her VERY quickly?
Someone needs attention 😎
Just added these links:
http://arthurgoldwag.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/paul-elam-weighs-in/
http://radfemworldnews.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/splc-follows-up-on-mra-concerns-finds-them-ridiculous-and-willfully-obtuse/
Just looking at that blog has made me feel terribly ill. I’m altering my wish to “I want a world without intolerance and discrimination.” Of course, now I have to cause an equal amount of despair…damn Faustian contracts.