Arthur Goldwag, the author of the SPLC’s recent report on hatred in the Men’s Rights movement, has now responded to some of the hysteria his article provoked amongst MRAs. As Goldwag notes, contrary to what most MRAs seemed to conclude from the report,
the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit. But we didcall out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence.
Thomas James Ball, for example, who was hailed as a martyr on so many men’s rights forums, called for arson attacks on courthouses and police stations. The Norwegian mass killer Anders Breivik wrote extensively about the evils of feminism. We included as much as we did about Register-Her.com because it is so intimidating to its targets, not all of whom are criminals. When Elam accused Vliet Tiptree, a pseudonymous contributor to RadFem Hub, of “calling for extermination of half the human race; the male half, that is,” he offered a cash reward for her real identity. The names and locations of several candidates were publically aired.
Goldwag also takes a look at some of the radical feminists that have become boogeywomen for so many MRAs, and deals with other MRA complaints.
If you’re a regular reader of Man Boobz you’ll want to read the whole thing.
The Men’s Rights subreddit has already linked to Goldwag’s article, which has provoked not only the predictable SPLC-bashing but also some criticism of A Voice for Men and Paul Elam.
Obviously Elam and other MRAs will respond to Goldwag’s latest as well. Post links in the comments below as you find them, and I’ll add them to this post.
EDITED TO ADD: And, right on schedule, AVfM responds to Goldwag’s response. It’s a John the Other post, so be prepared to read a lot of words saying not very much.
On his own blog, Goldwag responds to Mr. The Other.
Goldwag’s piece also got some criticism from the STFUfauxminists Tumblr blog for quoting a RadFem known for her transphobia.
I’ll add more links as I find them.
ETA 2: MORE LINKS
i wonder if this new round of elam-bashing is actually going to them realizing what a total scam artist and a toxic personality it is, or if theyre gonna forgive and forget as soon as his r/beatingwomen conspiracy theory fades from their short-term memory
I think the MRAs are getting pretty done with Paul Elam (except for the little core group of boot-licking sycophants who comment on AVfM). Unfortunately, I think it’s for the wrong reasons, and they’ll end up attaching themselves to someone else who’s just as hateful but a touch less obsessed with being a Famous Internet Bigshot.
yeah… that’s probably true. 🙁
also
the ‘failed high school part’ is kind of shitty but otherwise, that about sums it up.
In Goldwag’s response he said
This is an example of why the MRM is known as the abusers’ lobby. Note how the MRA’s first tried being collegial with the Southern Poverty Law Center in order to get them to retract their original report. They did not get their way, though, so then it was on to Plan B, lash out against the SPLC. This mirrors how an abuser will first try being charming with hir victim in order to get hir way, but then react with anger if the victim doesn’t respond the right way.
If Elam loses followers/suckers, he might have to go get a real job.
Yeah, the “failed high school part IS shitty” but now I can’t stop thinking “Paul Elam: Mall Cop”.
“’You do know that there is a forum out there called ‘RadFem Hub’ that actively advocates infanticide, gender-selective abortion and killing/mutilating men and boys, right?’ one letter asked us.”
MRAs don’t really get the meaning of the word radical do they? That radical feminists are nothing like all feminists, whereas their violent rhetoric seems to be about all they say?
And they’re upset at being associated with Breivik? Because he wasn’t a card carrying MRA? Are they unfamiliar with the idea that actions speak louder than words? Basically the inverse of how Palin can call herself a feminist all she likes, it won’t make her one.
Oooh! *settles in with popcorn*
That SPLC article really, really bugs them. They mention it all the time…
The MRA movement is leaderless.
I’m confused as to why Rad-Fem hate groups can’t recognize that Paul Elam is a parody, in the same vein as A Modest Proposal, or the S.C.U.M. Manifesto.
the thing that pisses me off is that if they really were serious about the problems men actually do face because of historical notions about gender, helping boys who are poorly done by the standard academic and social structure of high school would be a great place to start (and would go along with their complaints about supposed gender imbalances in institutions of higher learning)
but that would never occur to them because it’s not something they can easily spin as completely women’s fault. and, of course, it would involve actual work.
If Elam loses followers/suckers, he might have to go get a real job.
…He’s trained as a social worker and would probably go back to it. I might even consider donating a little money to keep him away from the needy of the world. *shudders*
zhinxy — the idea of Elam as a social worker is so much more terrifying the idea of him continuing being wrong on the internet. Just how violent is he? Would he violate the mandatory reporting if someone is a threat to others? *shudder*
Now I need popcorn too, and yet more brain bleach.
Seconding zhinxy’s comment, because…damn, I wouldn’t want someone like HIM helping me with my issues.
On the whole, the SPLC article is really good and detailed. Here is a good money quote (at least for me):
““You do know that there is a forum out there called ‘RadFem Hub’ that actively advocates infanticide, gender-selective abortion and killing/mutilating men and boys, right?” one letter asked us. “Read the SCUM Manifesto,” another said, “and research the reception it has received over the years, and the regard with which many feminists still hold Valerie Solanas.”
Solanas was the undeniably disturbed woman who shot Andy Warhol in 1968. “Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women,” her manifesto began, “there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex.”
SCUM stands for “Society for Cutting Up Men,” and it is true that Solanas continues to be much-read and quoted in some feminist circles. (“We don’t really cut up men,” the tagline of the Feminazis blog cheekily declares. “Well, unless they deserve it.”)
The existence of hatred on one side of a color, political or gender line hardly justifies its presence on the other. And radical feminists do say hurtful things about men. “[T]reatments can be developed to mitigate the death-drive of men, their hierarchical psychology, their insensitivity to the pain of living creatures, their pleasure in violence and intimidation, their acquisitiveness, their rape and phallic obsessions,” Tiptree wrote in a post on RadFem Hub called Radical Feminism Enters the 21st Century. “[M]y best bet is that what’s wrong with men is that their androgens need genetic modification. I’m serious about this. If we can do it with corn, men ought to be easy.” Few possessors of Y chromosomes could read her words without feeling queasy. But to characterize her essay as a well-developed plan, as Elam and his colleagues do, is not only ridiculous, it is willfully obtuse.
Cathy Brennan owns the domain RadFem Hub. “I don’t hate men,” she told me. “I have a father, I have a brother, I have a son. The war that Paul Elam is waging is in his head. I worry about women and children and the increasing violence in our society.” When I asked her what she thought of Solanas’ “Scum Manifesto,” she laughed. “I view it as A Modest Proposal-type work of literature, a satire. It’s brilliant, but it’s not my personal bible.”
While men’s rights activists fantasize about existential threats to the male sex, real gendercide is being committed against girls in China, India, East Asia, the Caucasus and other parts of the world.
Of course, some radical feminists do hate men, and when MRAs lurk in members-only chat rooms and cherry pick their angriest, most shockingly over-the-top posts to reprint on their own sites, as an MRA “mole” did at a forum called RadFemSpeak (which is not affiliated with RadFem Hub), they commit the same injustice they accuse the SPLC of doing to themselves. No one makes a very favorable impression when they’re spewing bile.”
Problematic language aside, I’m glad the SPLC actually addressed this (as stupid the whole situation is).
Oh, but wait…it just occurred to me. Since the SPLC actually TALKED to a member of Radfemhub instead of blindly demonizing them (THE HORROR!!!!1), I’m pretty sure MRAs will just puff up their “The SPLC and Radfemhub are one and the same” conspiracy to even larger levels.
I can only hope I’m wrong, but, well…hope springs eternal.
I liked this one at the SPLC post:
Dave said,
on May 16th, 2012 at 10:22 am
I look forward to the future SPLC article highlighting misandry by feminist groups and even politicians and basically labelling the likes of NOW as hate groups, who’s members are so deranged they even physically assault fathers rights activists at domestic violence policy hearings (and get convictions for doing so).
An article highlighting hateful feminist groups will run into hundreds of thousands of words so you’re going to have your work cut out. Just covering Sweden alone would be one hell of a task to complete.
I noticed this. And neither is really a sincere opinion–they don’t really want to be buddies with the SPLC nor do they actually believe the SPLC is a hate group (*eyeroll*), they’re just clumsily attempting different manipulation tactics. It’s all about “which button do I push?”; there’s no empathy or attempt at understanding what the SPLC is saying to them.
…I think the MRM just Nice Guy’d the SPLC.
Also (from the SPLC)
“Let’s be clear about this: the SPLC is in the same position as those who criticised Dr King back in the early 1960’s for ‘going too far’.”
and
Cathy Brennan owns the domain RadFem Hub. “I don’t hate men,” she told me. “I have a father, I have a brother, I have a son.
I also noticed she didn’t say husband. Perhaps that’s why she hates men.
and
The mens movement is less misogynist on average, than feminism and the mainstream is misandrist on average.
This one may take the cake, because I can’t make head not tails of the bizarre equivalencies:
I for one, wholeheartedly agree with Erika. It is really unnecessary and I think the SPLC might be wasting it’s time with them, and the “Feminist” groups. I don’t see how these groups pose any indication of a public threat. Much like the WN movement.
Yep, this person just equated feminism, the MRM and White Nationalists, saying all of them are non-issues, insofar as being any sort of menace. A waste of time to pay any attention to them.
I’d probably go farther and say that while I get why the SPLC says they’re ‘legitimate concerns’, in that if they were true, they’d be real problems, but they’re not. I’m going to be charitable and assume laziness or that they extend some credit to the MRM that is not due, rather than that they believe that stupid shit XD
There’s so much to “like” in the r/mr post. I was kind of fond of this one, for reading comprehension fail alone.
When someone wonders why SPLC is going after the MRM, aetheralloy says
When pressed for evidence, aetheralloy posts three screenshots that show that littletiger at r/srs has a friend at SPLC and talked to him about the MRM being scary, without specifically identifying r/mr, and was told they were already aware of the scariness of the MRM. littletiger’s friend was not involved in writing the article.
I don’t understand people who think SRS is this evil force of evil. They make fun of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic/assholes on Reddit. The assholery is pretty self-evident when you look at the posts SRS calls out.
Why are so many people buying into the meme that SRS is this horrible bully organization that bullies nice people for no reason?
Because there’s this virulent species of lazy fucking thinking going around that states if you call something out, you’re somehow worse than that which was called out.
Nah, it’s because SRS is willing to call people exhibiting what is ultimately normal misogyny or normal racism misogynist or racist. It’s calling them bad people, and they are obviously not bad people.
they quote omega virgin saying the following.
frs has basically one thing to say: women scheme to put innocent men in prison because… something something. it takes like five minutes over there to realize that whatever pierce harlan is, it isn’t rational. the fact that they let shit like that pass without comment suggests to me that they saw the teeming layers of surface misogyny and didn’t bother to dig deeper, which is kind of frustrating.
Right. That also would mean dismantling the historical notions about gender, which the MRAs never seem to be keen on either.
They may well have believed some of what the MRAs said. I did that for a while–I thought “Yes, false accusations/divorce court unfairness/etc. are real and bad, but you still shouldn’t hate ladies over it…” until people here showed me the facts.
I guess it’s just hard to believe that the MRAs are that full of shit, and you sort of assume that at least a few of them are responding badly to real problems, until you dig a lot deeper.