One widespread belief of the manosphere crowd is that “Western women” – that is, white women in developed countries – are a bunch of stuck-up, demanding, divorce-initiating feminism-infected harridans. So the proper course of action for the almost-all-white dudes of the manosphere is to seek a woman with darker skin and a (supposedly) more pliable nature. Even better: beleaguered white dudes should move to one of the countries where these feminism-free gals live, because when you bring them to the United States they too have a tendency to become infected with evil feminism and to become as stuck-up and evil as their lighter-skinned sisters.
This belief isn’t universal amongst manospehreians by any stretch of the imagination. White nationalist manosphreians (like those who populate the blog In Mala Fide) get testy when their women are considered inferior to non-whites; others think that all women are equally evil. Still others think that moving to a whole other country is too much of a hassle. Rarely do you find a manospherian willing to state the obvious: that the “white women suck” mantra is as offensive to non-white women as it is to white women.
Over on The Spearhead, one commenter has taken the “white women suck” mantra to its logical extreme, arguing that these evil women need to be quite literally bred out of existence.
Let’s take a look at walking in hell’s argument:
If one thinks about it, the misandry and divorce problem are problems that occur in countries where the women are light-skinned–mostly Northern Hemisphere Western Contries, and where the governments are atheist or were atheist.
Problem countries are Sweden, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, United States, France, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand, etc. In short–the West. Light skinned women are by nature more dominant and controlling. If you combine that with a culture that encourages bad behavior, you as a man are doomed.
So far, this is standard-issue western-women-suck-ism. But then Hell starts talking about genes.
So the misandry problem is problem of genetics and culture. We can see the genetic differences in the United States. Asian Women divorce their husbands at a much lower rate then the other racial groups. The exception in America is the American Black Women (But isn’t she exceptional, after all)? I mean native African Women have very little resemblance to American Black Women).
Ironically, it’s fairly typical for the white-women-suck crowd to hate black women even more; in this case the only non-typical thing about Hell’s screed is that he’s willing to cut African women some slack.
Now Hell sets forth his basic thesis:
My point is this: I maintain the best wife for a white man is someone darker skinned then he is. I maintain that the best culture for the white man and his wife is a man-friendly culture. For example, a white man and Mexican woman living in Mexico; a white man and Thai Woman living in Thailand; a white man and a Morracan Woman, living in Morraco; a white man and Turkish Woman, living in Turkey. This strategy neutralizes the light-skinned genes, and at the same time neutralizes the cultural influences.
Note: If you plan to move to Morocco to escape the tyranny of white women, you should probably learn to spell the name of the country correctly first.
Naturally, Hell can’t bring himself to suggest that white men should marry black women. And he thinks that even black men should give African-American women a pass:
For a black man, possibly the best plan is to emigrate to Africa in order to have a family. I had a friend who did this. Most African divorce laws keep the man firmly in charge with sole custody automatically going to the man.
While some Western-women-hating manospherians have something of a fetish for Eastern European women, Hell warns his fellow men to avoid these sneaky deceitful harridans as well:
Whatever you do, never bring an Eastern European, Russian, or Ukrainian Girl to the Unites States.
But it isn’t only the Eastern European women who are spoiled by the evil feminism of the west.
In fact don’t bring any woman to the United States. Remember: even the healthiest fish becomes sick when the lake is poisoned. Some fish will become sicker than others depending on their genetic makeup. For example, that nice girl you brought over from Asia might not divorce you when she comes to the USA, but she is likely to become a much different (difficult and unpredictable) person.
So who is the best man for the white woman living in the West? Quite simply, no man; or another woman. Very few men in the West will be able to satify Western White Women.
And this, naturally, leads to what what we might call Hell’s Final Solution to the problem:
These women need to be bred out of existence.
We as men can speed the extinction of Western White Women by encouraging them to pursue the single life or to pursue another woman as a spouse (lesbianism). We can do this actively and passively. Actively by outright encouragement, and passively by never giving a Western Woman access to our sperm, money, or time.
Despite its, er, problematic content, Hell’s comment managed to draw 21 upvotes from fellow Spearheaders, more than twice the number of downvotes it received.
I eagerly await A Voice for Men’s campaign to uncover and expose the identities of Hell and his upvoters – as well as against The Spearhead itself for providing a safe harbor for such thinking. I mean, AVfM literally offered a $1000 award for the personal information of a feminist who made similarly troubling remarks about men, and a separate $1000 reward for the identities of those involved in a theatrical production about a feminist who wrote a famous manifesto about the evils of men. Surely the A Voice for Men crowd will be equally offended by these remarks from their comrades on The Spearhead.
Here on Man Boobz we content ourselves with highlighting bad ideas, not harassing or threatening or exposing the personal information of those who promulgate them. The “war of ideas” isn’t an actual war. The bad ideas we highlight here are as silly as they are reprehensible; they will ultimately vanish from the world on their own — though hopefully our mockery of them will help to speed that process a little bit.
EDITED TO ADD: Thanks to scarlettpipistrelle for pointing me to this lovely comment.
Hah, from the way you talk, you make it sound as “non-Western(ized) foreign men dating local Western women” is already as commonplace as it’s distaff counterpart. I most sincerely doubt it. I can’t claim to be an expert on other Oriental races, but for my specific people, I can reliably say that the ratio of the numbers of our women marrying Occidental men vis a vis our men marrying Occidental women is grossly overwhelming:grossly underwhelming. And we are one of the larger ethnic diasporas (Oriental and otherwise) in the world.
“if you are so lacking in observational skills relating to how people interact,”
Heh, maybe you’re just looking at the world through the shiny-happy-people tint of red-rose-colored glasses, eh?
“I can only hope, for the sake of your country, that you don’t have a job which deals with people, in any sort of official capacity.”
Oh don’t worry too much, as most of my tasks involves consulting/technical/policy work, I deal much more often than not with our own nationals, not foreign civilians such as yourself (sarcasm)
@Pecunium:
Your sex is not necessarily linked to you chromosome configuration, the SRY gene can end up in the X-chromosome or even more weird, you can be male without an SRY-gene.
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091210/full/news.2009.1135.html
“Here is a gene that is not located on the sex chromosome that makes you stay female.”
ok, it’s just mice but such stuff is pretty similar in all higher mammals.
@Argenti Aertheri:
Heh heh, that’s the problem with using jargon, constant misunderstandings. I use the term patriarchy as a social system where power can be held only by adult men (and equivalently matriarchy), of course there were patriarchies, what else was Ancient Greece? But nearly all present and many past societies aren’t patriarchies (and no I don’t claim that they are wonderful gender egalitarian societies because of that).
Are you saying that Cosmo describes men with adjectives like choicest? Can you show me any proof for that? If so, then that is also creepy. The word choicest is usually used in reference to food or a consumable item. People are not food or items to be consumed.
The narrative of women as meat is common, and describing women as “the choicest” fits into that narrative.
@ABNOY
The “Westernized” bit is also telling. As a Californian, my mind immediately went to the Africanized “killer” bees, that were going to kill us all when they migrated over the border. Despite having swarmed all throughout the American Southwest in the past decade, they haven’t been a particularly big deal that I’ve heard of.
That’s good to know, though. If the analogy holds, that means that small swarms of Westernized women would be capable of taking over the other hives by invading and establishing their own queen after killing all the submissive native bees, er women. And since women can travel at will to other countries by airplane, just like men (but unlike bees), you see there’s really no escape from the evil Westernized woman.
From the original Spearhead post:
As a Californian and computer geek, my mind immediately went to Hans Reiser and his Russian wife and mother to his children whom he strangled in cold blood and buried her out in the Oakland Hills near his house. He also tore out the passenger seat and all the carpeting in the car that he transported her body in, where it was never found by police, and a witness testified to seeing him hose off his driveway for a half hour around the time. So there wasn’t any DNA evidence, but the prosecution did have a lot of witness testimony of Reiser’s abusive and violent behavior and irresponsibility towards his children, relative to his wife, with whom he was in a vicious divorce and custody battle.
Reiser probably would have gotten off, due to lack of a body, except that in his arrogance, and against the advice of his attorney, he testified in his own defense, and as Wikipedia puts it, “When Reiser testified in his own defense, his implausible claims and erratic behavior in the courtroom largely undermined his claim of innocence.” The trial was fascinating to follow, because it was so obvious to me from early on that he was the only possible suspect, and if he hadn’t been so stupid as to believe his lies would convince the jury, he might have gotten away with it.
Either way, yeah, I absolutely agree that MRAs should not bring Eastern European, Russian, or Ukrainian women to the U.S., so that there’s no chance of the MRAs murdering them some day in a fit of violent rage. That would be bad for everyone.
seranvali — yeah I did, I was kind of simplifying things while dealing with a troll, but that’s what I was trying to get at by noting that in many cultures the family unit is the political structure. I just really wasn’t in the mood to be told that female run family units are non-important, sorry.
I’m not an anthropology major or anything of the sort, I could try arguing there are no matriarchies because America has shoved Native Americans into boxes for easy labeling, but it’s not exactly recent history, and utterly off-topic. And you likely know wtf I mean anyways.
Vindicare — “But nearly all present and many past societies aren’t patriarchies (and no I don’t claim that they are wonderful gender egalitarian societies because of that).” — ok pick one: male-rule, female-rule, egalitarian rule, which is it?
Or aliens? I’d also accept lizard people (not the conspiracy theory but Doctor Who’s homo reptilius, because they fail less than us) — you will have to explain why Nevada is still empty if you pick this option.
And re: sex traits, you can spend all day finding ones in mice that aren’t on XY, and hell, you’re even right about something — XX/XY isn’t all that determines gender — but in science lingo, “sex linked traits” MEANS on the sex chromosomes — you’re arguing with the dictionary here.
A though on ABNOY — if he’s Chinese he might not be fully wrong…it’s not non-Chinese men’s fault but a result of the one-child policy then though — there just aren’t nearly as many wives as men seeking them. Not that this is news to anyone, but it might in part explain where his comments are coming from.
Re: Comso — I only read it to mock it, and given my favorite source of that is Cliff’s blog, I highly doubt that’s just me.
“Arguably, a case could be made that domesticated pets feel the same way about their masters/owners. And yet most of those people wouldn’t really care, so long as their pets showed enough affection to them.”
ABNOY, my pets are fish, I don’t really expect much from them, they can ignore me all they like, they’re still getting food. As for cats and dogs….do you get that they’re felis catus and cnis lupus familiaris? Neither species has been a wild animal for millennia. And the only people I’ve ever heard arguing that providing them a roof, food, medical care, and ear rubs was unethical were vegans, so assuming you consume milk or cheese or *gasp* MEAT! you can shove it.
Humans are not fucking pets!
“Or are you one of those romantic dreamers who actually believes that their government/church/employer/etc. value you just for being you?”
No, but my FWB does >.<
*canis lupus familiaris
Somewhere my Latin teacher is shaking her head in disgust (yet again, she never did like me)
Argenti:
I just did a double take and wasn’t sure where your argument was going. My mind is still not as clear as it could be. And yes, of course, the family unit is a political structure. This is true of all societies, regardless of their kinship system and the kinds of values that are hung on them.
Matrilineal societies often give women a lot of power within the family and society in general (not always but often) but there is no evidence that matriarchy existed in the Americas or anywhere else, no archeological evidence, no anthropological evidence, no religious evidence. I’d personally love to believe that there was, or had been a matriarchy somewhere, at some time but there is no evidence. Lots of matrilineal societies, quite a few egalitarian ones, but no matriarchal ones.
seranvali — I’m more familiar with Native American customs than other cultures, but my point was that the family unit was basically the entirely of the political structure in some places, including matrilineal ones. It was part of a musing on the possibility of a hypergamy gene, in context the only real point was that in places where women held the power, not men, the men would be the hypergamous ones.
Various Native American tribes weren’t exactly big on larger units of political structure before the Europeans needed handy labels and leaders to deal with (yeah I’m terribly oversimplifying again, but I’m assuming you know this) — those were the cultures I was really thinking of though. They wouldn’t really count as matriarchies or patriarchies though, as the “political unit” was the extended family, not the entire tribe or anything like that.
But I find the idea of a hypergamy gene rather laughable, so it’s kind of moot.
seranvali — that is, families worked together on things, celebrated together, etc, but the chief didn’t hold the sort of ultimate power we tend to associate with a political structure — meaning that in the matrilinal societies the women held great deals of power, and certainly the powers relevant to any hypergamy trait (but gods is that laughable)
ABNOY: Hah, from the way you talk, you make it sound as “non-Western(ized) foreign men dating local Western women” is already as commonplace as it’s distaff counterpart. I most sincerely doubt it.
It’s not that you doubt it, it’s that you deny it, absolutely. You said women don’t go for immigrant men. I said I had seen it, and seen in it several countries. An absolute claim needs only one example to be disproven.
Oh don’t worry too much, as most of my tasks involves consulting/technical/policy work, I deal much more often than not with our own nationals,
That would explain the blinkered state of your confirmation biases.
And… not civilian. Posted to Ukraine, and Korea, and Germany, and Scotland.
Canada, France, Ecuador, those were for personal pleasure.
“Humans are not fucking pets!”
Hah, I take it you’re not into bdsm, then?
“It’s not that you doubt it, it’s that you deny it, absolutely.”
Heh, ‘Do or do not. There is no try.’
“That would explain the blinkered state of your confirmation biases.”
Ah, as a general rule, we all wear our own blinders so as not to experience sensory overload.
“A thought on ABNOY — if he’s Chinese”
Well, call me anything you wish, just NOT Chinese, PLEASE. It would be like calling a Zionist a Nazi and vice-versa…
@ABNOY
Even if someone is into BDSM and likes to roleplay at being a “pet” that still doesn’t make them an actual pet. Are you trying to be wrong at everything?
He doesn’t have to try very hard, does he?
Myoo, didn’t you read? There is no try. ABNOY just does wrong all the way.
womenbeinghateful–see above!!
Modern women STINK! Cases in point.
One lovely Madame Alexander doll is more valuable than: 100 noisy, overeducated, pushy, quarrelsome, and difficult feminists! If she was to disappear, her owner would be heartbroken, whereas if any–or all–of the hateful feminists were to disappear, nobody would even know the difference, except that her (or their) owner’s environment would be quieter, more peaceful, happier, and more loving!
As far as waiting for these dolls to be programmable as “wifebots”, companions, and loving, compliant, and sensitive womanpets, the :good riddence” we heard from a feminazi above is certainly mutual!
You realize that you will not leave any genes behind that way, right? Wifebots cannot reproduce.
Feminists of both genders have the ability to reproduce, because they are actually alive. Dolls/Wifebots are not alive.
I am also pretty sure that feminists do not have owners.
I suppose you think it is the height of praise to claim a person as property, but most people do not want to be slaves.
What is not hateful about wanting people to be slaves? I remember your modest proposal to eslave women in your brothels who have had sex in a way you do not approve of.
you know dkm doesnt think women are people
dkm, instead of blaming all your problems on other people, have you ever considered that maybe it’s you?
seriously, you are the worst libertarian ever
And if you were to die at this moment, Meller, your dolls wouldn’t be heart-broken. They wouldn’t experience pain, or discomfort, or surprise, or fear, or pain. There would be no tears from them.
And the same would be true if they were all to be destroy.
But for now you’re alive: they also don’t care, they have no joy nor happiness, they are not content of having pretty dresses.
They don’t and can’t care, because they’re not alive. A fruit is more alive than them. Heck, a piece of mold on a fruit is more alive than them. If you believe you can make us jealous of them, you’ve lost all connection to reality. Do you actually believe that being loved by you – one of the most despicable human being I know of -, without even feeling it, is better than being a free person, with the ability of giving and receiving love? Ha!
I wish you no harm, but I care less about the day you’ll die than about a broken pen, hateful man. Not unlike your dolls, by the way.
what happened to evan could happen to any of them…
Anyone ever read Junji Ito’s “Hell’o Dollies”? I read it a few months back and it’s all I can think of whenever DKM starts waxing poetic about his dolls these days.