One widespread belief of the manosphere crowd is that “Western women” – that is, white women in developed countries – are a bunch of stuck-up, demanding, divorce-initiating feminism-infected harridans. So the proper course of action for the almost-all-white dudes of the manosphere is to seek a woman with darker skin and a (supposedly) more pliable nature. Even better: beleaguered white dudes should move to one of the countries where these feminism-free gals live, because when you bring them to the United States they too have a tendency to become infected with evil feminism and to become as stuck-up and evil as their lighter-skinned sisters.
This belief isn’t universal amongst manospehreians by any stretch of the imagination. White nationalist manosphreians (like those who populate the blog In Mala Fide) get testy when their women are considered inferior to non-whites; others think that all women are equally evil. Still others think that moving to a whole other country is too much of a hassle. Rarely do you find a manospherian willing to state the obvious: that the “white women suck” mantra is as offensive to non-white women as it is to white women.
Over on The Spearhead, one commenter has taken the “white women suck” mantra to its logical extreme, arguing that these evil women need to be quite literally bred out of existence.
Let’s take a look at walking in hell’s argument:
If one thinks about it, the misandry and divorce problem are problems that occur in countries where the women are light-skinned–mostly Northern Hemisphere Western Contries, and where the governments are atheist or were atheist.
Problem countries are Sweden, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, United States, France, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand, etc. In short–the West. Light skinned women are by nature more dominant and controlling. If you combine that with a culture that encourages bad behavior, you as a man are doomed.
So far, this is standard-issue western-women-suck-ism. But then Hell starts talking about genes.
So the misandry problem is problem of genetics and culture. We can see the genetic differences in the United States. Asian Women divorce their husbands at a much lower rate then the other racial groups. The exception in America is the American Black Women (But isn’t she exceptional, after all)? I mean native African Women have very little resemblance to American Black Women).
Ironically, it’s fairly typical for the white-women-suck crowd to hate black women even more; in this case the only non-typical thing about Hell’s screed is that he’s willing to cut African women some slack.
Now Hell sets forth his basic thesis:
My point is this: I maintain the best wife for a white man is someone darker skinned then he is. I maintain that the best culture for the white man and his wife is a man-friendly culture. For example, a white man and Mexican woman living in Mexico; a white man and Thai Woman living in Thailand; a white man and a Morracan Woman, living in Morraco; a white man and Turkish Woman, living in Turkey. This strategy neutralizes the light-skinned genes, and at the same time neutralizes the cultural influences.
Note: If you plan to move to Morocco to escape the tyranny of white women, you should probably learn to spell the name of the country correctly first.
Naturally, Hell can’t bring himself to suggest that white men should marry black women. And he thinks that even black men should give African-American women a pass:
For a black man, possibly the best plan is to emigrate to Africa in order to have a family. I had a friend who did this. Most African divorce laws keep the man firmly in charge with sole custody automatically going to the man.
While some Western-women-hating manospherians have something of a fetish for Eastern European women, Hell warns his fellow men to avoid these sneaky deceitful harridans as well:
Whatever you do, never bring an Eastern European, Russian, or Ukrainian Girl to the Unites States.
But it isn’t only the Eastern European women who are spoiled by the evil feminism of the west.
In fact don’t bring any woman to the United States. Remember: even the healthiest fish becomes sick when the lake is poisoned. Some fish will become sicker than others depending on their genetic makeup. For example, that nice girl you brought over from Asia might not divorce you when she comes to the USA, but she is likely to become a much different (difficult and unpredictable) person.
So who is the best man for the white woman living in the West? Quite simply, no man; or another woman. Very few men in the West will be able to satify Western White Women.
And this, naturally, leads to what what we might call Hell’s Final Solution to the problem:
These women need to be bred out of existence.
We as men can speed the extinction of Western White Women by encouraging them to pursue the single life or to pursue another woman as a spouse (lesbianism). We can do this actively and passively. Actively by outright encouragement, and passively by never giving a Western Woman access to our sperm, money, or time.
Despite its, er, problematic content, Hell’s comment managed to draw 21 upvotes from fellow Spearheaders, more than twice the number of downvotes it received.
I eagerly await A Voice for Men’s campaign to uncover and expose the identities of Hell and his upvoters – as well as against The Spearhead itself for providing a safe harbor for such thinking. I mean, AVfM literally offered a $1000 award for the personal information of a feminist who made similarly troubling remarks about men, and a separate $1000 reward for the identities of those involved in a theatrical production about a feminist who wrote a famous manifesto about the evils of men. Surely the A Voice for Men crowd will be equally offended by these remarks from their comrades on The Spearhead.
Here on Man Boobz we content ourselves with highlighting bad ideas, not harassing or threatening or exposing the personal information of those who promulgate them. The “war of ideas” isn’t an actual war. The bad ideas we highlight here are as silly as they are reprehensible; they will ultimately vanish from the world on their own — though hopefully our mockery of them will help to speed that process a little bit.
EDITED TO ADD: Thanks to scarlettpipistrelle for pointing me to this lovely comment.
I agree with Rutee. It’s tedious (and honestly, kind of is a little bullying) for people to say “BUT YOU BELIEVE IN GENETICALLY ORDAINED HYPERGAMY” every time Ruby says anything.
Yes, she believes that, yes, it’s incredibly stupid and she’s incredibly stubborn about it, but do we need to rehash this constantly?
Agh, no time to Google but I know there’s been at least one documentary about women doing that. >.< Maybe I'll be able to remember the name of it later…
Yeah, I wish it could be blamed on MRAs, since that would be easier to deal with. Sadly it’s a bigger problem caused by people and forces with much more power than the MRM has, even in their wildest fantasies.
The Y-chromosome is a sex chromosome Vindicare >.< To answer the question though, because the non-sex chromosomes would be passed to children regardless of gender…so I guess your theory is that hypergamy is coded on one of the first 22 pairs of chromosomes, but requires estrogen to be activated? The only gene of this sort I can find is related to breast cancer, the delay was me checking if such things even existed, seems we've found one since my biology days.
But you can't have a sex linked trait without some linkage to the sex chromosomes, that’s wtf makes them sex linked traits. Also, we are way over genetics 101 now, more like genetics 301 or something.
For the sake of playing the hypothetical, if hypergamy were somehow not on either sex chromosome, but estrogen linked, then it should develop (or be more likely to develop) in trans women on hormones.
Also, as was already said, historically, it wasn’t the people marrying doing the match making — her *father* was generally marrying her off to a man of higher class/status. And more things that were already said — in matriarchy societies the *men* marry up. It’s not sex linked, if it exists, which I really doubt.
Oh, and to continue the hypothetical and maybe get this back on topic — if such a gene existed, there’s absolutely no way only “western” women would have it. Just as an example, India’s dowry system encourages marrying-up (and female foeticide to avoid having the dowry cost) — so if some hypergamy gene somehow did exist, and somehow only women had it, they’d certainly have it as well.
(Note, there’s no fucking way such gene is sex linked, if it exists, which I have serious doubts about; I just have a serious love of hypotheticals.)
Argenti, where have I claimed that the Y chromosome isn’t a sex chromosome?
Why do we always talk about single genes?
What about androphilia and gynephilia? Isn’t there quite a strong correlation with gender?
It doesn’t need to be estrogen linked in the sense of “if we inject estrogen, you become hypergamous”. Maybe it’s determined by how the brain is influenced by hormones while it’s still developing?
There are no matriarchal societies. The Navajo aren’t, the Musuo aren’t…
“Argenti, where have I claimed that the Y chromosome isn’t a sex chromosome?”
You implied it with your example
“Why do we always talk about single genes?
What about androphilia and gynephilia? Isn’t there quite a strong correlation with gender?”
Because not even the human genome project has really mapped genes working in interaction with each other — and autism is a whole lot higher on the research list than hypergamy. I am so not going down the rabbithole of sexual orientation, it’s utterly off topic, and science hasn’t a damned clue anyways.
“It doesn’t need to be estrogen linked in the sense of “if we inject estrogen, you become hypergamous”. Maybe it’s determined by how the brain is influenced by hormones while it’s still developing?”
Hormones don’t differentiate until puberty, by which point the brain is very nearly developed, certainly developed enough that hormonal changes as large as GRS would have an effect. (Contra popular belief, your brain is *never* done developing, it keeps right on remapping for your entire life, which is where the “keep your brain active to prevent Alzheimer’s” comes from)
“There are no matriarchal societies. The Navajo aren’t, the Musuo aren’t…”
Try the Iroquois, Khasi or Apache and there are others too. And the Musuo may not be anymore, but they were traditionally. Bear in mind that in most cultures the family unit was the political structure.
Oh, well sorry for the tedium or for getting pissed at the numerous issues Ruby has brought up, but those ideas, as run of the mill stupid as they are, actually have had a significant impact on my life and continue to do so.
They have an impact on every womans life, and are the driving force behind a great deal of misogyny.
But moving on…
Yeah. They do. They’re vile, and whenever they actually come up feel free to skewer her on her own blunted sword. But Ruby has not yet passed the Meller-level of jackassery, and him and Milkboy are the only two that have their jackass views thrown back in their face whenever they speak; and I think we can all agree that those two assholes are far worse. Well, and Factless, but again, it takes special jackassery from everyone but Ruby, it feels. It’s very weird.
Vindicare: Argenti Aertheri, why do sex-linked traits have to be linked to the sex chromosomes?
Because that’s what sex-linked traits are. If they didn’t require the sex chromosomes they would, on occasion, manifest in either gender. Take Argenti’s example of breast cancer. It’s not sex linked, even if the genes which express it are much more likely to activate in women.
If they weren’t related to the X, or Y, then they’d not be sex-linked.
Shit, I got so caught up on the genetics I missed this gem — “There are no matriarchal societies.” So the patriarchy does exist then Vindicare?
Rutee I agree that Meller and NWO are far worse in what they spew.
I actually do like Ruby in certain respects, my quarrel is the fact that Meller and NWO are far more likely to be ignored as nutbars ir throwbacks than people like Ruby. Ruby’s thinking is not even remotely extreme it is in fact mainstream. And therein lies the damage. People are far more likely to swallow what she says without comment or protest and thereby prime everyone within hearing range to deal with women or the poor accordingly. It continues to sweep real problems under the rug and perpetuate negative outlooks on women, the poor and people of color with different outlooks about marriage.
If Ruby HAS in fact changed her viewpoint, I’d like to ask why. Just curiosity more than anything else. If she hasn’t, well that’s on her, but she’s going to have some difficulty with certain aspects of feminism, particularly areas dealing with why more women aren’t in particular fields (or are over repnted in others) or areas that deal with intersections of poverty and race. The other part that gets me is that just because a woman thinks herself the equal of a man and holds down a career, doesn’t mean she’s necessarily a feminist. Sarah Palin?
Yeah, I just caught that too. I thought “the patriarchy” was a myth.
On Ruby, yeah, I see what you mean. Those views generally give me a visceral reaction, but you’re right. It is kind of a bullying tactic, and it ain’t cool.
Hit post too soon. A sorry was meant to be in there as well.
Gosh I’m a little self absorbed today! My apologies, she also sweeps under the rug alternate sexualities and genders and family units.
I think that a lot of MRA-types make up the sex-tourism industry, and I have actually read about “wife tours” that these scumbags create to hook up a bunch of pathetic angry men who can’t get into relationships because of said pathetic anger with “foreign brides.” A lot of it is tied to the PUA community, but also the MRAs.
I would hazard a guess that a lot of the stereotypical “big white guy who is looking to take advantage of a native person in the third world” stories are these guys.
And yeah there are “Merikans” who are obviously annoying and horrible that don’t fall into this group, but a good number of them seem to be the businessman turned sex tourist or MRA douchebag looking to prey on local women.
They’re a tiny group. MRAs may be more likely to engage in sex tourism, but they’re so insignificant a percentage of the population that even if it were primarily the sex tourism and wife shopping (It’s SO not, seriously), they would still not really be responsible for Meriken hate.
This has been going on more than 50 fucking years. That you’re only now hearing about it because MRAs advocate it doesn’t make them primarily responsible for it. And that’s still not the majority of why Meriken annoy the rest of the planet.
Look, the fact that you’re declaring why it is Meriken aren’t liked, without, you know, talking to the people who don’t like Meriken or reading what they have to say on the matter has a LOT more to do with it, seriously; it’s annoying, and it’s not just you.
There are a lot of reasons for developing nations to be pissed with western white folks. The patronizing attitude, the medeling in other countries politics, the unfair advantages used to aquire resources that aren’t ours etc, etc. Not to mention the complete disrespect we have for other cultures, viewpoints and religions.
Rutee, would I be correct in guessing that sex tourism has been going on since white folk started colonizing other countries?
Would you say the biggest problem with western culture is the inability to respect other cultures enough to ask questions and listen?
Given that the majority of South and Central Americans are a blend of white and indigenous peoples, that’s probably a fair thing to say.
I haven’t the faintest idea. It feels odd placing it so abstractly.
The idea of the foreign bride isn’t exclusive to the Western English speaking world. Both my Chinese and Indian students have talked about the popularity of Russian brides in their home countries. A Chinese friend also mentioned the equivalent of mail order brides from North Korea. I imagine sex tourism is kind of common in other countries as well. Just like women are women everywhere, men are men everywhere.
“Dude, you need to keep the story straight”
What, never heard of people with a jet-setting globe-trotting lifestyle like in the Hollywood movie “Up In The Air”? (rolls eyes). Tsk, such a limited imagination you have. I have been fortunate to work for my country’s government in the foreign service, which requires me to literally travel all over the world (because our particular nation has a diaspora of contract workers in practically ever corner of the planet), and so I’ve been around enough to know what I’m talking about.
As for the “colored men dating white women” thing, that only really works with 2nd-generation migrants and up, but which is rarely seen in the 1st-generation migrants or men who continue to based from their native homelands. And even then, it’s minimal compared to “colored women dating white men”, even for men who were born and raised as 2nd-generation migrants. For instance, this is partly what caused the relatively recent rise of what is known as the “Angry Asian” man.
“It’s creepy to use the adjective choicest to describe women.”
“To these assholes, they are just like steaks.”
Hah, tell that to your fellow women. All over the world, they categorize men similarly, and even (from your apparent persepective) worse. I mean, have you ever tried reading the various “Cosmopolitan”-type women’s magazines? I have, and from different countries too. What do you have to say about that, eh?
“They do not love you, they love having food on the table and supporting their families.”
Arguably, a case could be made that domesticated pets feel the same way about their masters/owners. And yet most of those people wouldn’t really care, so long as their pets showed enough affection to them. In life, as long as one doesn’t bother to scrutinize too excessively, the simulation of something, as long as it’s passable enough, is sufficient enough to be a substitute for the actual thing itself.
“but here’s me saying that there is no way they love you. You are nothing but a commodity.”
In the current age of capitalism, aren’t we all? Or are you one of those romantic dreamers who actually believes that their government/church/employer/etc. value you just for being you? As a general rule, If you’re no use to the system, the system has no use for you. I mean, just look at what a hell of a devil it is getting state-subsidized universal healthcare passed in the USA. True, Western countries do have public welfare systems, but sizable portions of their own populations (approaching majority levels) would like to have those systems removed immediately.
“MRA’s just need to keep adding dollars to the third world. Good on you.”
Obviously, after all, aren’t you liberals/socialists always demanding wealth-redistribution (sarcasm).
“looking to prey on local women.”
In this case, it would be mutualism
* “Seriously, you can’t think ofa ny reason why other countries would be annoyed at Meriken? Are you sure?”
I actually think Meriken is cute.
http://heartofasia.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/meriken.jpg?w=510
Argenti:
Do you mean matriliny? As far as I know (anthropology double major here and we discussed this issue interminably) there are no existing matriarchies (female dominant societies). There are, however, lots of matrinieal societies (where decent is traced through the female line. Such societies tend to be egalitarian, the Navajo being a good example). There is a big difference between the two, although a lot of people use the term interchangeably.
Whether or not the were/are matriarchies does not mean that the Patriarchy (or indeed patriarchy in general) do not exist. Most societies that are patrilineal (decent traced through the male line) are also patriarchal ( male dominant).
ABNOY: What, never heard of people with a jet-setting globe-trotting lifestyle
Dude… I know them.
Foreign Service eh? And you believe this As for the “colored men dating white women” thing, that only really works with 2nd-generation migrants and up, but which is rarely seen in the 1st-generation migrants or men who continue to based from their native homelands
Try to get a posting to LA, or SF, or Montreal, or Ottawa, or NYC, or Kiev, Because I’ve lived in, or been assigned to those places, and I’ve seen it. Then again, I speak the language in those places, and I mingled with the locals.
Really, if you are so lacking in observational skills relating to how people interact, I can only hope, for the sake of your country, that you don’t have a job which deals with people, in any sort of official capacity.
Keep fucking the chicken.