Every few days, it seems, Reddit has some thread asking the regulars there what horrible thing they would do if they could get away with it. And invariably someone says rape.
The good folks in ShitRedditSays recently highlighted one such comment, from a fellow calling himself nickfromredcliff. As you can see from the edits to his comment below, poor Nick felt somewhat embarrassed and even affronted by the attention.
When I checked his comment again this morning while writing this post, I found he’d edited it again. Gone was his plaintive plea for tolerance; in its place, a bunch of new rape jokes. (You can find a screenshot of his original comment here; at the time it had 39 upvotes.)
Let’s all use this as a learning experience.
And while we’re at it, let’s have a toast for the douchebag.
kladle, protection wise HPV is rather like herpes isn’t it? In that it’s not that condoms don’t offer protection, but that they live on/in the skin and thus it’s more about skin-to-skin contact than sex.
Would “without any of the consequences” include the bill? If so, back to college for me! Maybe philosophy this time, since wtf good the degree is in practice would be moot… (that’s nothing against philosophy majors, I just don’t know wtf you’d do with it besides teach)
yeah, HPV is similar to herpes in that respect.
don’t knock philosophy majors >:{
a philosophy degree is totally useful for things like…
arguing on the internet
making your existential crises much more entertaining
increasing your cynicism about politics
attracting attention from crackpots who enjoy “metaphysics”
looking like a pretentious douchewad every time you read a book in public
winning debates with your mom by appealing to your degree in philosophy
more seriously though i see a lot of people go from philosophy to computer science or law. if i remember correctly phil majors tend to be pretty successful in general in a lot of fields.
kladle — thank you for the answer, and I wasn’t trying to knock philosophy majors, just questioning wtf you do with the degree career wise…as a stepping stone to, say, law school makes a lot of sense though. It certainly makes life more amusing or I wouldn’t have said I’d get a degree in it if I didn’t have to worry about the cost 🙂
Heck, my existential crises already come with a joke about how I’m meta-analyzing my meta-analysis, and that’s with only a couple of philosophy courses, definitely more entertaining. Unfortunately my debates with my mother are more things like…pre-abortion transvaginal ultrasounds, she supports them, because abortion is murder >.< — I doubt a philosophy degree would help in debates with fundies, they much prefer appeals to god/the bible/authority.
I love you Futrelle. I love this vid..
@Puella Sapiens: You made such a good point. It seems a way too common mistake to think that a) raping a woman always leaves her completely damaged and traumatized, and b) this is why rape is bad. These presumptions are really damaging.
I hadn’t given them much thought until I read a blog by a rape survivor who claimed that she hadn’t been particularly traumatized by the rape, and argued that this is also an okay way to feel. People react differently to the same thing. It’s okay to be traumatized after a rape, but it’s absurd to think that you have an OBLIGATION to.
The idea that rape equals complete traumatization for the rest of your life means that if somebody is in okay psychological shape afterwards people might not believe them just because of this. It also means that some people are more scared of becoming “rape victims” than of rape itself, and that’s also completely fucked up. She linked to another blog where a woman described ending up alone in a house with a guy who started to seem a bit threatening. Her response was to start having sex with him with pretend enthusiasm – not because she wanted to, but enthusiastically getting into it meant she wouldn’t become a RAPE VICTIM. And she was terrifed of the prospect of being a RAPE VICTIM for the rest of her life, since we all know that rape victims are completely traumatized, unable to enjoy sex etc forever. And I can kind of understand where she’s coming from, as often we’re told this about rape victims.
I was also in a discussion on an internet board about these new drugs that, taken after a really bad event, can prevent emotional memories. Like, if you were raped and took this drug, you’re still gonna remember the events, but in a pretty disconnected and unemotional way. I argued that if these drugs are safe it should be the victim’s choice whether to use them or not. But some people argued that this would be wrong, since if rape victims could choose not to be traumatized this would mean rape was no longer a bad thing, and they thought rape ought to be considered a bad thing. That’s so fucked up. Not respecting somebody’s bodily autonomy IS bad, regardless of whether this person is traumatized afterwards or not.
RE: Le John
Just because you fantasize about doing something doesn’t mean you’d ever actually do it. You realize the difference between, “I imagine this,” and “if I could, I’d do it,” right?
RE: Dvarghundspossen (what does your name mean, btw?)
I admit to feeling extremely leery of those drugs, but then, I’m a dissociative. I walked around for a couple years completely unaware anything was wrong, and it wasn’t till I got together with my husband that the whole mess crashed down on me like a ton of bricks. The emotions were totally disconnected; I just thought I was insane.
And in my opinion, forcing someone to like something is a double violation, because taking free will from someone is the ultimate crime, in my opinion. Even if it has just “good” effects.
I think an anti-trauma drug, if safe and effective, should be an option for survivors, but personally I wouldn’t take it. I think I’d rather have painful emotions than feel like I should but can’t.
The idea that this would lead to more lenient sentencing for rape is so messed up. That’s like trying to plead down a battery charge because your victim got medical attention and therefore isn’t permanently injured.
Ooooohh! You donate blood! Regularly, even!
Quick! Someone get this man a Nobel Prize!!
Cause, you know, it’s not like other people donate blood AND manage without being total douchebags.
*facepalm*
RE: Cliff
I think I’d rather have painful emotions than feel like I should but can’t.
Yeah, I’ve had that happen due to my brain’s own defense mechanisms. It’s… pretty awful, actually. And I still have it better than Sneak, who spent a couple years having traumatic memories sucked out of zer head as they came in, causing zer to go around in circles of, “I’ve forgotten something? What did I forget? Wait, I remember! It’s… *blank stare* I’ve forgotten something? What did I forget?”
Like, other people want them, go ahead, but HELL FUCK NO for me.
A boat? Hey, I’ve seen a boat. This way, it went this way, follow me! . . . Stop following me.
I’ve always felt so bad for Dori 🙁
Re: Gingersnaps
I don’t recognize the reference.
Finding Nemo
Oh! DUH!
*is smrt*
I call the It’s Just a Joke!™ defense the Nigel Tunfel defense because of this scene:
She should be made the smell the glove.
Relevant portion starts at 3:25ish.
I’ve said before that I’d love to do a lecture on “humor” using nothing but Nigel Tufnel quotes.
Dvär:
That’s a little circular; if there were a way to make rape not be a bad thing — for the record, I don’t think there is — it wouldn’t be bad, so to say no one should use this hypothetical whatever because rape is bad doesn’t make sense.
Just another thing Euthyphro applies to.
Finding Nemo. Dori can’t remember anything — in the context of a kid’s movie it’s supposed to be cute, but it’s most likely traumatizing.
Anywho, anyone ever notice how “learning experience” is almost never “I learned to not say dumb shit” but rather “You should learn to not call me out when I say dumb shit, you Nazi!”???
@GingerSnaps: almost always. Other acceptable definitions of “learning experience” include “I learned something so you’re not allowed to be mad at me anymore!” or “I could have learned something, except you’re mean, so it’s impossible to learn because my feelings are hurt. Good job.”
When someone raped me, I was surprised how numb and unaffected I was about the whole situation. I cut the rapist (someone I know and who used to be a friend) out of my life completely and refused to return his calls, etc. I didn’t want to press charges, I didn’t want to directly have to go on about it- but eventually I started having nightmares and I sometimes still do- the sense of someone using your body against your will is the part that really bothers me on an intimate level, and it’s had some lasting effects.
But no, just because some guy raped me doesn’t mean that my LIFE IS OVER. Or that my life is destroyed. Or that I’ll never have a positive relationship with a man ever again (obviously not, since I’m married and love my husband very much).
I think that, to some extent, those rape myths actually ENTICE some rapists to rape- I mean, because for their inflated ego/power trips, they can convince themselves that after raping a woman, she’s HIS forever, and no one will ever get her undamaged.
Yeah. Everyone I know who has experienced these things has gone on to be functional, including in the bedroom. It’s a traumatic experience for most people, but trauma affects everyone differently, and it doesn’t Ruin You Forever as a general rule.
In something I was writing recently, I had to explain (and find studies to support) the concept of people going on from sexual assault to living relatively normal lives relatively quickly after the fact. Because I discuss asexuality all the damn time, people seem to really love walking up to me and informing me that I must have been raped (or that most asexuals identify that way because they were raped). Oh, and because that (thankfully) has never happened to me, really it’s that I just don’t remember it. (Remember, kids: if you remember it, it happened; if you don’t remember it, you’re repressing! Ta-da! There isn’t a way for this person to be wrong!) Anyway, I read several case studies about the phenomenon and yes, nearly everyone who’s had a traumatic sexual assault experience goes on to be normatively sexual, though of course many to most do experience lasting effects. It’s not like once this happens to you, you’re broken.
If I could do anything illegal without consequences, I would park on the street ALL YEAR ROUND. And on the one-way streets! And in the faculty-only lots! PARKING ANARCHY.
Different reactions are okay, but implying that because you weren’t traumatized and/or didn’t have an emotional breakdown that that is the right way for victims to be and to feel is very messed up. If someone does stop their normal life to deal with trauma, that’s okay, it’s also okay if they don’t.
I had emotional issues for years and years from having been molested, and I still have a strong enough physical reaction that the last time I saw him the dog I was with (who my family jokes would lick a robber and try to get them to pet him) had to be restrained to stop from attacking him.
The fact that I was traumatized isn’t license to dismiss everything else about my life or my self concepts.
DSC:
Cliff has mentioned this in the context of BDSM. Even if kinkiness were the result of trauma –even when it is — that doesn’t make it less genuine; that applies, mutatis mutandis, to most other things.
That’s an awesome dog.
My brother showed me a picture of my rapist to ensure me that his new girlfriend is ugly and wow we all hate her, but all I could think was that I wanted to give her ALL the hugs. I don’t know if that’s a normal reaction or not, but it’s the way I reacted and it was organic, so I have to assume that at least *some* people act that way, But everyone is different.
@darksidecat
I was not attempting to minimize the breakdowns and variety of reactions that various people can encounter if they are raped, but I was surprised at my own personal reaction to the experience.
All my life I had been told by society, by media, even by other rape victims (you know, in those sex ed classes they had you take in high school which inevitably had a “guest speaker day” about how “Rape Is Bad MMKAY?”) that once rape occurs, you’re going to cut yourself, you’re going to cry and sob and freak out and not be able to function for weeks if not months if not years. I was told how women who are raped are broken, damaged and can never have consensual sex without recalling the rape incident.
ETC ETC ETC.
So when it happened to me, I was somewhat shocked that I didn’t react that way. For awhile, I couldn’t believe that I had been raped because my life wasn’t over, because I wasn’t irrevocably broken like I had been told I would be. Some people around me didn’t believe I had been raped if it came up because I didn’t have bruises or vaginal tearing (needless to say, these people are no longer friends). Some even accused me of having cheated and just “crying rape” because I had regretted the sex. I think that what really fucked me up the most about it was OTHER PEOPLE’S REACTIONS to it, not the act itself.
And most of the nightmares that I did have about the rapist involved him being at a party or a gathering with my friends and no one believing me about the rape and him just going around like nothing had happened- like he was totally justified in doing it and society supported him. In the worst nightmares, he’s sitting there, being all kind and nice to me and acting like, no, he didn’t violate my body because he wanted to do things to me and I did not want to do things with him. *sigh*
Doing this does not mean a person is “broken” or “damaged” or trash, or inferior in any way. It doesn’t mean that it’s okay to dismiss a person’s life, experiences, self concepts, etc. either. Conflating a rape victim saying that this was their experience with saying that all rape victims are “broken” or somehow damaged goods is extremely problematic. Not that the latter narrative is totally nonexistent, but discussions of different trauma reactions is not the same thing and shouldn’t be discussed as if it is.
Being more or less traumatized are both okay, and neither one should be seen as the “proper” way to respond to rape or molestation.
But this fucking narrative that if you have been raped and you were traumatized then you are “broken” or that you can’t be treated with respect around your self concepts, thoughts, feelings, opinions is seriously messed up (not saying that you were completely doing this).
The fact that I was traumatized doesn’t make it okay for people to do bullshit psychoanalyzing nonsense. My opinions and self concepts aren’t somehow made inferior by that fact. I can have been molested and have been traumatized and should still be respected when I tell people to fuck right the fuck off if they are using the “molestation causes X” or “you must have been molested because you are X” nonsense at me. Every single time I hear “I wasn’t molested and I’m gay” it makes me want to scream that I was, and it doesn’t make my authority over my own queerness any less legitimate.