Over on A Voice for Men, our dear friend Paul Elam has come up with an interesting new way to celebrate Mother’s Day – with what is essentially the longest, least funny, and most rage-filled “Yo Mama” joke ever. (Indeed, it’s so rage-filled I should probably put a Trigger Warning right about here.)
Elam starts off by addressing the mothers of the world, suggesting he’s got a “a socially conscious twist” on the traditional Mother’s Day celebrations. Mothers, he argues, should gather together the flowers they’ve been given by their loved ones and:
Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.
Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death.
You probably didn’t see that coming, did you? He goes on.
Now perhaps some of you could place large, colorful arrangements at the abortion centers where women go to have children cut out and laid to rest in those colorful and attractive biohazard containers that are all the rage in the clinics. …
Maybe you can lay virtual flowers at your computers to honor all the children that you and your sisters have pimped out to pedophiles, or perhaps the blossoms could be placed in your child’s room, which also doubles as your preferred place to abuse your own.
Oh, but you say you haven’t done any of these things, and that abortion isn’t actually the same as infanticide? No matter. Elam has an answer for that:
This is not a request for some mothers, or a percentage of them, but all of you. In fact, you don’t even have to be a mother. If you have a vagina, the blood of all those children, who are abused far more at the hands of women than men, has stained your skin and caked around the cuticles of your fingers.
If you are a mother, particularly one of the many abusers, or just one that has remained silent as your sisters have beaten, choked, stabbed, burned, drowned, abused, neglected, dumped, tortured and otherwise done the unspeakable to the most defenseless among us, then I hope to see those flowers in your murderous hands, paying homage to those that have been unfortunate enough to be placed in your path. …
In Daffodils for Dumpsters the gash gets you in, and you don’t really have a choice.
You see, Elam has decided that we live in an era of “collective guilt,” and that the evil (straw) feminists who go around blaming all men for the actions of a few – through such dastardly things like rape awareness seminars – deserve to find themselves collectively blamed as well.
Except that Elam’s post goes well beyond an ill-conceived and ill-intentioned attempt at “turnabout is fair play.” This isn’t a piece of Swiftian satire. He actually believes all this hateful nonsense, and says as much:
Now, do I really mean all this? Yes. It is not that women deserve to be collectively regarded as child abusers and killers. Most aren’t. Most are actually very good to their children and can even be trusted with the children of others. But that truth is not what is important here.
What is important is the children, or the principle, or whatever other bullshit we make up to convince ourselves it is not about demonizing women when that is exactly what we are doing.
I have to confess I have no idea what he’s trying to say in the second paragraph here. Did he mean to say “men” instead of “women?” If so, this is an interesting little slip.
He continues:
The fact is that mothers are more dangerous than fathers where it concerns children. They always have been. It is only a few percentage points in that direction, but of course in a White Ribbon way, it is more than enough to justify pointing a finger at your entire sex and feeling superior as we watch you atone for the unspeakable acts of a minority.
So, suck it up ladies. If you knew about White Ribbon and said nothing to object to it; if in general you have remained silent or actively participated as the image of the male half of the population has been reduced to that of a depraved threat, the step up and get your flowers. You deserve every last petal, stem and thorn.
I imagine Elam chuckling a bit as he typed that final word.
And a happy Mother’s Day to you, too!
Oh, and if you found yourself wondering about that “White Ribbon” thing, Elam is evidently (as best I can figure it) referring either to the women who, during World War I, handed out white ribbons to men who didn’t enlist in the army. Or he’s referring to this contemporary campaign to fight violence against women. But I don’t live inside Elam’s head, so I’m not sure what he meant, or why he seems to think that all women would know about either campaign, much less have any responsibility for them.
NOTE: Elam is also celebrating Mother’s Day by suggesting I had something to do with creating Reddit’s appalling “beatingwomen” subreddit as part of a nefarious plot to make the Men’s Rights movement look even worse than it manages to do on its own.
You may notice that Elam presents no actual evidence to back up his claims. There is no such evidence, because Elam’s accusations are utterly and completely untrue.
I have nothing whatsoever to do with r/beatingwomen. Nothing. I don’t know anything about who created it, or what their aim was beyond laughing at pictures and videos of violence against women. As I’ve said before, it’s a vile place. I think Reddit should shut it down.
*actually be going somewhere
One of these days I’ll manage to post without typos, one of these days.
Why don’t you do a report on the “beatingwomen” subreddit? And yes, it is a “nefarious” plot to make the Men’s Rights Movement look bad, so don’t be a sullen little bitch about it. Embrace it, live with it, and accept that you really are fellow dogmatists in the crusade against the Men’s Rights Movement.
Anyway, I look forward to the new dox when they arrive. I do not endorse this course of action, but it couldn’t happen to a nicer gaggle of bigots and… well, feminists have been pulling this crap for years.
I’ve read this comment five times, and I still don’t know what the fuck IR’s trying to say. Can anyone help me out here?
Umm..
“Why don’t you do a report on the “beatingwomen” subreddit? And yes, it is a “nefarious” plot to make the Men’s Rights Movement look bad, so don’t be a sullen little bitch about it. Embrace it, live with it, and accept that you really are fellow dogmatists in the crusade against the Men’s Rights Movement.”
I think this bit is a vague accusation that David is indeed responsible for beatingwomen, and that he’s now been outed so we should own it or something.
“Anyway, I look forward to the new dox when they arrive. I do not endorse this course of action, but it couldn’t happen to a nicer gaggle of bigots and… well, feminists have been pulling this crap for years.”
I think here he is trying to suggest that Manboobz is being hacked and we will all be doxed – with a suggestion that feminists have been exposing personal details of (unspecified people) on the internet for years.
Either that or he thinks he has proof (or is about to have proof) that David is responsible and that we will all go down with him. In which case I say, bring it on.
Or something. That’s the best I can do on this one.
I think he’s trying to run with the idea that the subreddit was created by feminists, or David himself — that if David doesn’t “do a report” on it then the subreddit must be a plot to make the MRM look bad? Not that there isn’t an older post denouncing it linked in the original post here…
But working from the premise that it’s created by feminists, then it must exist to make the MRM look bad (like they need help with that) — so embrace it! And then it follows from that that feminism is a dogma “in the crusade against the Men’s Rights Movement”. Well, “dogma” considering feminism has no authoritative power in reality, only in MRA-land.
The second bit seems to sum to “feminists are bigots” which is an unsurprising stance from the MRM. And it comes with the irony of “I do not endorse this” but “I look forward to” it.
@ideologuereview — when the MRM can manage both these points, you’ll have my support:
1) Not assuming men are inherently superior to women.
1b) Ditch the gender binary too please, and the transphobia, and the homophobia…
2) Actually trying to change things which have actual real impacts on men — eg if you link me to a petition to make the HPV vaccine available to everyone, I will sign that shit.
2b) False accusations do not affect the vast majority of men, not at anything like the rates rape affects women.
Ok I guess that’s 3.5 points in practice, but I’ll settle for “we’re working on 1b, we aren’t perfect but we’re trying”.
IR/PreggoPuchit/WTFBBQ, just wants hits for his blog that no one, not even the most bored of MRAs, actually reads.
He never actually has a point.
Phew. This is a hard read today. When we talk about abuse, we have to talk about how many people are pro-life up until the point of birth, and then fuck ’em. Seriously. All of the people talking about how wrong abortion is are also trying to cut funding for child’s services. You want to talk about abuse, but don’t want to consider the woman who is guilted into giving birth even though she knows she can’t handle a child. This goes for Paul Elam, who wants to simultaneously shame women into not aborting, while relieving men of paying child support. A guy who wants to talk about the wrongful imprisonment of men who refuse to pay child support while ignoring the fact that the result of that refusal means a child starves, is malnourished, becomes homeless, etc. i mean, Jesus, if anyone is for child abuse, it’s the people who see child support as a prize for a mother and not the money that keeps a child alive. I mean, can MRAs honestly claim they care about children? They treat them more like property to be won in divorce court.
@psychdan on a lighter note, ASTRONAUTALIS! Just FYI I’ve known him forever and sang with him last November. What a completely random place to see his video get posted.
So, the creative force behind Preggo Punchout refuses to believe the MRM would revel in the beating of women. Your faux outrage is priceless.
IR/FF/PP:? And yes, it is a “nefarious” plot to make the Men’s Rights Movement look bad,
The only way it makes the MRM look bad is because they take advantage of a public forum to revel in the abuse of women*.
So nefarious.
Anyway, I look forward to the new dox when they arrive. I do not endorse this course of action, but it couldn’t happen to a nicer gaggle of bigots and… well, feminists have been pulling this crap for years.
You don’t endorse it, but you look forward to it. That’s the sort of thing that makes r/beatingwomen able to make the MRM look bad.
As to the, “feminists have been pulling this crap for years,” Care to cite some examples. You know, Find some Facts?
In fact, we’re just about having a block party over this whole “beatingwomen” fiasco – it gives us free publicity and showcases the integrity of our opposition.
For once I believe you, that the MRM is counting this some sort of PR win. The last sentence is also more true than you think. On the other hand it also showcases what the MRM (or at least a significant portion, such as Paul Elam) actually believe.
So, if you want to count that as a win, that tells me a lot about your inegrity (you who are against doxxing, but looking forward to it when it happens).
*says the dude who tried to sell a game called, “Preggo Punchout”. Methinks the lad doth protest too much.
@revspinnaker:
Damn guys, I was really hoping to care about children’s rights again today, but instead I filled up my care unit with this delicious coffee. 🙁 Maybe tomorrow, fingers crossed.
(If you don’t see the point I’m making, revspinnaker, it’s that talking about the vagina monologues does not prevent you from activism on the behalf of children. That is the silliest idea. The silliest.)
@captainbathrobe:
I rarely understand what he’s trying to say. I assume it’s difficult to type on a gleaming opulent horse.
Its very interesting the way Elam has chosen to frame his post. By focusing so heavily on the vileness of moithers, he can conveniently overlook the fact that a great many would be fathers are quite relieved that the mother of their child is getting an abortion. That in the cases of infants abandoned shortly after birth, the fathers of those children had zero interest in sticking around to care for them or even to ask whether the pregnant woman might in fact be carrying his child. The assumption here is that men are so much more willing to become fathers than actually are. Yet, these same men decry having to financially support their own offspring, or put aside their education or career ambitions to do their share of the parenting. In fact, several of these guys openly advocate moving to another country to avoid any and all responsibility to their own kids.
RE: Viscaria
Don’t forget the Aryan part!
I really want to know what Elam’s wife thinks about this post.
“Thanks for being such a loving mother to our child, you stupid bitch. ”
“Aw, thanks honey!”
I’m still laughing at this. What an amazing slip of the tongue (or in this case, the typing fingers)
Maybe she doesn’t care so long as he’s directing his venom elsewhere. Maybe she’s a heavy pro life activist, and if she ever needs an abortion she’s not like those other sluts. Maybe they are totally disconnected in their marriage and she doesn’t care what he does so long as it doesn’t involve another argument.
Or maybe, they have a fabulous life together but Elam keeps his views on the downlow because he’s at least capable of realizing his good fortune in his wife despite the bad experiences he’s had with other women.
I really don’t care. Its his attitudes I have a problem with. I think by wondering about his wife there’s a little bit of inclination to look at how she’s feeding in to his bullshit. Which can serve to remove some of his responsibility about his own shitty behavior
My money says Elam doesn’t do anything for his wife on Mother’s Day, since (to quote my mom’s former coworker on the subject of his wife and Mother’s Day) “why the fuck should I care? She’s not my momma.”
Wait, Elam’s married?!?
@Argenti
With a daughter as well IIRC. His wife is probably just another snowflake in Elam’s mind (maybe hers too, dunno), like GWW and the other female MRA.
Shadow, I guess that explains where the MRAs get their “good women” thing from…
But who’d ever marry him? He seem way too hateful to manage:
“Or maybe, they have a fabulous life together but Elam keeps his views on the downlow because he’s at least capable of realizing his good fortune in his wife despite the bad experiences he’s had with other women.”
Goodness do I feel for that daughter, I see many days of “you aren’t going out dressed like that!” in her future (my father would be an MRA if he could work the internet) — oh that’s it! He *needs* his wife for something, in my father’s case, working the computer, and most other tasks needing one not to be piss-ass drunk.
@Argenti,
Actually, Elam made a post once “time to piss off a few brothers” where he told everyone to stop “women bashing” and he has a woman in his life who has made sacrifices for this cause, blah blah. I think he may be like most people with a ridiculous radical “cause” – probably basically a normal decent person in general with some crazy-ass hateful views, and a lot of anger. I’ve had a lot of friends who were good people, but their views were nutty and it made you wonder how the such a dichotomy could reconcile and reside in the same person. Don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble 🙂
Sara, that is some particularly florid imagery, but you’re definitely right about the people who seem to put all their effort into not actually thinking about their views. I guess he could stick to “traditional roles” in real life and have a “traditional” wife though — the quiverfulls manage to marry, so maybe Elam found someone who shared his less repugnant views.
I’m trying to reconcile “stop woman bashing” with “In Daffodils for Dumpsters the gash gets you in, and you don’t really have a choice.” (well, and the rest of it, but extra points for “gash”)
Given my experiences of being white around racists…yeah you’re probably right about folks being generally decent until the object of their hatred turns their back. But then, racists don’t often marry people of color. They do however, occassionally marry someone not quite “white enough” (not north american enough). So there is that.
I don’t even UNDERSTAND the concept of “sacrificing for the cause,” at least as far as feminism is concerned.
Like, my husband is not a douche. That pretty much covers the bases. He doesn’t play games with my gender, he doesn’t treat women like crap, he’s a flirt who will stop without whining if asked or sensing someone’s uncomfortable, he has sympathy for parents and understands that people can be douches to women… what? Am I supposed to have lopped off his genitals and encased them in brass to hang upon my wall or something?
Seriously. You’re going to better children’s lives by protesting the Vagina Monologues? Okaaaaay then. That sounds about as effective as protesting Legally Blonde on behalf of homeless people.
@LBT — I think in that case they’d say he’d sacrificed all the sex he could be getting elsewhere. Which is BS as you’ve also just nicely described my friends-with-benefits — who makes it clear up front he’s not getting into a monogamous relationship and gets all the sex he wants (and his schedule allows) — I can’t speak for his other partners, but I even get taken out to breakfast!
I guess they’d say he’s sacrificing the cost of breakfast? Despite how I always insist he doesn’t have to and he insists he wants to?
@ostara321 — since I was the one stupid enough to engage him, let me see if I can parse wtf he meant? I *think* his point was that he doesn’t see feminists being as vocal about child abuse as the Vagina Monologues (because confirmation bias) thus we don’t care about child abuse. He was trying to prove that women are way more dangerous to their kids than men by, um, refusing to read statistics. (I’ve seen been informed that’s just wtf he does)