For a bunch of guys who love to pretend they don’t care about women, Men Going Their Own Way certainly do love to talk about them. So much so that I’m thinking they may need to update their little acronym to MGTOAW: Men Going Tediously On About Women.
Over on MGTOWforums.com, for example, the regulars are having their tenth billion discussion about how women totally get all ugly as they get older, while men get handsomer and more awesome. Gannicus, himself 40 years YOUNG, starts things off with this:
To me, one of the most obvious things a man should notice is that in the US, most American women have fallen apart or completely without value by 40.
Is it just me, or does that “in the US, most American women” bit remind you of Miss South Carolina and her “US Americans?”
I know some will say it happens earlier, but lets just stick with a round number. And lets forget about virtue, loyalty, honesty, etc for a moment, which we know is not exactly known to be a top export of American women. Just being completely shallow and superficial, based on appearance alone, I find it disgusting and repulsive to view virtually any woman at 40. I just turned 40 and I am proud of my appearance. I expect to continue taking care of my body,etc.
However, I feel that based on looks. weight, hair, facial quality, etc. that 1% or less of Amercian women at 40 are, shall we say,bangable or even tolerable if you had to stare at for 10 minutes. And lets not even mention that wretched term from a bygone era called feminity. That is almost unheard of in the US in any age group. …
Which then leads me to wonder what the hell do young guys think their female partners will look like at 40? I mean, do they think THEIR girl will be different?
I’m just throwing this out as a hypothesis here, but I’m guessing that “most young guys” aren’t angry, bitter, woman-hating assholes who think all women over 40 are hideous hagbeasts.
Back on MGTOWforums.com, Downandout repectfully disagrees with Gannicus thesis. He believes that many women get ugly long before they hit 40.
It’s not so much that American women hit 40, it’s that 40 hits American women. Hard.
Jokes aside, I don’t think you can peg it to one number. A lot of skanks are starting to look awful in their 20s. Take Lindsay Lohan for example. Girls are starting to drink, do drugs, eat shit, and party hard at a very early age. Their small bodies can’t take that kind of abuse, and it’s showing. On top of that, they wear pounds of makeup to cover up the abuse, which only further contributes to the problem.
Deathslayer quotes the expert testimony of a colleague who calls himself RealDealBrotha:
Look at how quickly these chick fall COMPLETELY off, yet they STILL think they can do everything a man does for as long as a man does it…. NOT! …
Look at all the females who whore away their prime years, or go into career mode, or just choose men for silly reasons and NOT try to better themselves enough to be WORTHY of a good man (who is NOT a simp) wifing them up. They have so little regard for men that they think that they can have good men at their beck and call after they’re aged out fat chicks dragging around kids who they had with other men. It REALLY does NOT work that way, yet they don’t ever figure out the obvious until it’s too late.
We see and hear this story all the time. It comes up so often, that it’s really funny to me now. It warms my heart to know how badly these arrogant, misandric, selfish, worthless women are doomed to crash, burn and live the remainder of their wretched lives as bitter old maids whose only value will be as jumpoffs for bottom-feeder men who lack the guts and the nuts to raise the bar.
It’s always nice to see MGTOWers complain about misandry in comments overflowing with angry misogyny.
Toadman, for his part, seems happy to ignore women altogether, celebrating his independence by sitting at home eating canned food that’s way past its expiration date.
I have an unopened can of pork-and-beans in the cupboard that will taste the same as when canned. It’s lasted longer than the 10-15 years of female fertile desireability. Talk about “shelf-life”.
As they say, living well is the best revenge.
Argenti: We’re not really disagreeing. 🙂
I grew discernable boobs in the 4th grade. By the time I was 13, I was being hit on by guys who were at least ten years older than me. The second I told them my age, most of them ran for the hills but some of the more skeevy ones tried to keep harassing me.
By the time I was in college, a lot of guys seemed to think that just because I had gained some weight (due to an undiagnosed endocrine disorder that I only figured out later on after college), that I was now somehow “the easy fat girl” who would slut around out of low self esteem. I got hit on a lot by guys who were obviously looking for a one night stand. I laughed at them because I had two steady boyfriends at the time (both were exclusively with me and both were aware of one another).
As a woman, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you’re young and attractive, it’s your fault for “riling their sexual lust” so they think you OWE them and if you’re old or fat, it’s your fault for not being “easy” and “accommodating” and “knowing your place” as an easy fucksack for these sad worthless pieces of trash.
I love being pregnant because it’s one of the only times in my life where I stop being lumped into the category of “whore/ugly” dichotomy. Most people don’t sexualize pregnant women (there are people out there, obviously, but very few who will admit it in public due to social stigma) so I generally do not have to deal with the majority of the genderized sexualized bullshit that streams from the mouths of misogynists.
But it’s really fucking sad that in order to NOT BE HARASSED by people FOR BEING FEMALE, I have to grow a human being inside of me for 9 months, and that’s just not a sustainable state of being for my health or for my family’s size.
@Dani Alexis
Why am I now imagining the “Terminator” movies in which people’s faces melt off to show the evil glowing red eyes and silver metallic skeleton underneath?
I made a youtube video about depression and suicide once and as told I was too young to really be depressed, see teen hormones and non-permanent problems… except I’m 26 and have dealt with this stuff for 12 or 13 years now and it has nothing to do with a bad breakup or something stupid like that. In fact, that was specifically what my video was against, the talking about depression as if it’s the same as the feeling after a breakup, how it’s so easy to get over, etc. I’m like, dude, I’m not a kid just because I kinda look like one. So you must also look older than 20 to be taken seriously about serious issues too.
And just about the men aging better than women, well, to some people they do. I think I will wind up being a cougar when I get older because my taste in men seems to be stuck at around 22 or 23. Once men start to look more and more like my dad I get less and less attracted to them, haha. But I mean, that’s the thing about taste that the MGTOW don’t seem to get, everyone has it and it’s not always the same.
And you guys, the MGTOW are only GTOW to spite us… but we’re not upset about it which is foiling their plans. So they have to keep trying to provoke reactions from us the feel important to us still so that they can keep deluding themselves into believing that their GTOW hurts us.
Haha, I had a man the other day tell me that it’s much harder for him to abstain from sex than it is for me and I was like, “LOL, ok dude.” I didn’t get into it but part of me wanted to show him the conversations on this internet community I’m part of where pretty much all it is is us women talking about sex. It’s such a stupid myth that I have no problem correcting. Just because women are taught that they have to be the gatekeepers of sex does not mean that it’s easy for them to turn it down.
And the whole notion that “Well women get offered sex all the time so it’s easy for them to turn it down” is also ridiculous because, yeah, maybe I get a decent amount of offers, but not from people I actually want to sleep with. When a man I’m attracted to is offering it is a completely different story.
crella: Boobz, would you have anything to write about if you were not lurking on MRA sites?
Lurking? You make the manosphere sound so sordid. More to the point, if the MRA sites didn’t have shit like this, no amount of, “lurking” would provide it, and there would be no need for Manboobz.
It really does amuse me that the Manoshpere seems to think, “if it weren’t for you coming to us there wouldn’t be anything here”, as if that were an insult, and this his “skulking” somehow discredits his arguments.
If Dave were making it up, that would be something they could point to as a reasonable cause for dismission, but they admit to it, and then expect the use of shaming language to make him/us stop.
They don’t know us very well, do they?
It gets better. Over on the Spearhead, a regular commenter is claiming that white women as a whole need to be bred out of existence.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/05/12/the-beard-yanking-russian-lady/
walking in hell May 13, 2012 at 05:06
“When everything settled she brought over her ex boyfriend (seems like it was her plan from the get go)”
It most certainly was a plan. Years ago I read an article describing special schools in Russian that taught Russian Women how to immigrate to America and take advantage of the family courts in order to get a baby, property settlement, and alimony. Can you imagine the sympathy most judges would give to the “poor” immigrant Russian Girl…
Divorce rates are 50% plus in almost all Eastern European Countries, with a high of around 70% in Russia. If the divorce rates are not 50%, then they are moving towards that number: for example, Poland and Slovakia (traditional Catholic Countries) have rising divorce rates. These countries all have unilateral divorce laws and most of the divorces are initiated by the woman. Sole physical custody is usually given to the woman. Cheating among the women is rampant. Sound familiar?
I had one perceptive African friend who lived in Czech Republic for many years. He put the problem very succinctly: He said, “white women are too strong for the men.” He said this when referring to Russian, Eastern European, Canadian, and American Women. What he left out was that not only are they too strong for the men, they have the government behind them, thus making them stronger, and they have no morals.
If one thinks about it, the misandry and divorce problem are problems that occur in countries where the women are light-skinned–mostly Northern Hemisphere Western Contries, and where the governments are atheist or were atheist.
Problem countries are Sweden, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, United States, France, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand, etc. In short–the West. Light skinned women are by nature more dominant and controlling. If you combine that with a culture that encourages bad behavior, you as a man are doomed.
So the misandry problem is problem of genetics and culture. We can see the genetic differences in the United States. Asian Women divorce their husbands at a much lower rate then the other racial groups. The exception in America is the American Black Women (But isn’t she exceptional, after all)? I mean native African Women have very little resemblance to American Black Women). Also notable is that among marriages between American White Men and American Black Women, the divorce rate is significantly lower than the average divorce rate.
My point is this: I maintain the best wife for a white man is someone darker skinned then he is. I maintain that the best culture for the white man and his wife is a man-friendly culture. For example, a white man and Mexican woman living in Mexico; a white man and Thai Woman living in Thailand; a white man and a Morracan Woman, living in Morraco; a white man and Turkish Woman, living in Turkey. This strategy neutralizes the light-skinned genes, and at the same time neutralizes the cultural influences.
For a black man, possibly the best plan is to emigrate to Africa in order to have a family. I had a friend who did this. Most African divorce laws keep the man firmly in charge with sole custody automatically going to the man.
Though black men are very popular in Europe and America, they get royally burned in the family courts once the white women get the little “tiger woods” or “mike tyson” baby that they have been dreaming of.
Whatever you do, never bring an Eastern European, Russian, or Ukrainian Girl to the Unites States. In fact don’t bring any woman to the United States. Remember: even the healthiest fish becomes sick when the lake is poisoned. Some fish will become sicker than others depending on their genetic makeup. For example, that nice girl you brought over from Asia might not divorce you when she comes to the USA, but she is likely to become a much different (difficult and unpredictable) person.
So who is the best man for the white woman living in the West? Quite simply, no man; or another woman. Very few men in the West will be able to satify Western White Women. These women need to be bred out of existence.
We as men can speed the extinction of Western White Women by encouraging them to pursue the single life or to pursue another woman as a spouse (lesbianism). We can do this actively and passively. Actively by outright encouragement, and passively by never giving a Western Woman access to our sperm, money, or time.
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Sometimes, making fun of misogyny is a genre that just writes itself.
It’s not just women over 40, there’s a regular over on the Spearhead arguing that all white women need to be bred out of existence.
walking in hell May 13, 2012 at 05:06
“When everything settled she brought over her ex boyfriend (seems like it was her plan from the get go)”
It most certainly was a plan. Years ago I read an article describing special schools in Russian that taught Russian Women how to immigrate to America and take advantage of the family courts in order to get a baby, property settlement, and alimony. Can you imagine the sympathy most judges would give to the “poor” immigrant Russian Girl…
Divorce rates are 50% plus in almost all Eastern European Countries, with a high of around 70% in Russia. If the divorce rates are not 50%, then they are moving towards that number: for example, Poland and Slovakia (traditional Catholic Countries) have rising divorce rates. These countries all have unilateral divorce laws and most of the divorces are initiated by the woman. Sole physical custody is usually given to the woman. Cheating among the women is rampant. Sound familiar?
I had one perceptive African friend who lived in Czech Republic for many years. He put the problem very succinctly: He said, “white women are too strong for the men.” He said this when referring to Russian, Eastern European, Canadian, and American Women. What he left out was that not only are they too strong for the men, they have the government behind them, thus making them stronger, and they have no morals.
If one thinks about it, the misandry and divorce problem are problems that occur in countries where the women are light-skinned–mostly Northern Hemisphere Western Contries, and where the governments are atheist or were atheist.
Problem countries are Sweden, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, United States, France, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand, etc. In short–the West. Light skinned women are by nature more dominant and controlling. If you combine that with a culture that encourages bad behavior, you as a man are doomed.
So the misandry problem is problem of genetics and culture. We can see the genetic differences in the United States. Asian Women divorce their husbands at a much lower rate then the other racial groups. The exception in America is the American Black Women (But isn’t she exceptional, after all)? I mean native African Women have very little resemblance to American Black Women). Also notable is that among marriages between American White Men and American Black Women, the divorce rate is significantly lower than the average divorce rate.
My point is this: I maintain the best wife for a white man is someone darker skinned then he is. I maintain that the best culture for the white man and his wife is a man-friendly culture. For example, a white man and Mexican woman living in Mexico; a white man and Thai Woman living in Thailand; a white man and a Morracan Woman, living in Morraco; a white man and Turkish Woman, living in Turkey. This strategy neutralizes the light-skinned genes, and at the same time neutralizes the cultural influences.
For a black man, possibly the best plan is to emigrate to Africa in order to have a family. I had a friend who did this. Most African divorce laws keep the man firmly in charge with sole custody automatically going to the man.
Though black men are very popular in Europe and America, they get royally burned in the family courts once the white women get the little “tiger woods” or “mike tyson” baby that they have been dreaming of.
Whatever you do, never bring an Eastern European, Russian, or Ukrainian Girl to the Unites States. In fact don’t bring any woman to the United States. Remember: even the healthiest fish becomes sick when the lake is poisoned. Some fish will become sicker than others depending on their genetic makeup. For example, that nice girl you brought over from Asia might not divorce you when she comes to the USA, but she is likely to become a much different (difficult and unpredictable) person.
So who is the best man for the white woman living in the West? Quite simply, no man; or another woman. Very few men in the West will be able to satify Western White Women. These women need to be bred out of existence.
We as men can speed the extinction of Western White Women by encouraging them to pursue the single life or to pursue another woman as a spouse (lesbianism). We can do this actively and passively. Actively by outright encouragement, and passively by never giving a Western Woman access to our sperm, money, or time.
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I see a correlation here: where women have more rights, the exercise them.
What a surprise, this bothers him, and he wants to have a world where women have no rights.
Sorry, I am rushed (on my way to work): In fact don’t bring any woman to the United States. Remember: even the healthiest fish becomes sick when the lake is poisoned. Some fish will become sicker than others depending on their genetic makeup. For example, that nice girl you brought over from Asia might not divorce you when she comes to the USA, but she is likely to become a much different (difficult and unpredictable) person.
That implies it’s not the “white” women he has a problem with.
Same for the, “move to man friendly countries, and get a native wife.
It’s not the women he hates, it’s the society he lives in.
So white women will be “bred out of existance” and men will go marry in other countries… He’s predicting there won’t be anybody left in north America nor western Europe? That’s one I’ve never heard before. Unless white people are replaced by PoC? That would be a more usual fright. And one I so not care about.
No… white men will survive; and because they are the superior race, they will be in charge. They will then, in these other countries, make them over to what the world “should” have been like, if it wasn’t for those pesky kids.
Er, women.
That’s why I appreciate Spearhead; sometimes the most ridiculous, illogical, and psychiatrically fraught pieces on misogyny just write themselves over there.
Jessay:
Everyone’s a freakin’ doctor, aren’t they? The problem is, when teens are depressed, even if they think it’s the end of the world but it’s “objectively” something minor, they still really do kill themselves sometimes. Regardless of the severity of the problems, one of the most important things to remember is that whatever it is, it’s real to them. The thing that bothers me more than this guy writing you off as a stupid overdramatic “depressed” teen is that he would dismiss teenagers as too young to “really” have depression. It doesn’t matter if it’s hormonal or situational; it’s REAL. And of course there are melodramatic people in the world who sulk about things and think it’s “cool” to be depressed, but honestly, striding into a YouTube video and condescendingly telling someone they’re not really sad? What.
And as for assuming you’re a child, yeah, that’s just the icing on the cake, huh? Ooh, I can write you off because you’re young! Only grown-ups have problems. Sad thing is, he’d probably tell a twenty-six-year-old the same kinds of things in reference to how to deal with depression. You know, like “Snap out of it” (which is what a doctor actually told my mother, who struggles with depression also). I swear, I think most of the world’s interpersonal problems would be solved if we could just give empathy injections with our immunizations.
Yeah. The first time I was suicidal I was SEVEN. I mean, I wasn’t at high risk for committing suicide, because seven, but it happened. And, fuck, man, I’d have been in SUCH a better state if I’d gotten treatment when I was small.
…Seriously, people, Pascal’s Wager this shit. If you believe a person is depressed who isn’t, you are exposed as being (gasp!) a kind and generous person. If you don’t believe a person is depressed who is, you’re making their misery worse and maybe putting them at risk of suicide.
I swear, I think most of the world’s interpersonal problems would be solved if we could just give empathy injections with our immunizations.
I wish. Let’s get on this, people!
Man, I just can’t keep up with these threads!
My grey hair started coming in at age 19. At 45, my hair is mostly with, with some brown. I went through a frumpy phase, when I dyed it, but I mostly like how it sparkles.
On my dad’s 70th birthday, he’d been away from home on a consulting job for a few days. When I talked to him about his travel plans, he said “Well, it’s my birthday, and I’m going home to my wife, and I’ll take her out for a nice dinner.” My mom was 68 at the time. They got married in university. So, yeah, my mom has white hair and wrinkles and is overweight, and yet my dad is somehow not repulsed by her at all. Huh.
A few years ago, I was shop stewarding for a co-worker who had asked for leave due to personal overwhelm (diagnosed with diabetes, marriage failing, anger management issues). He’d been given bad advice by a VP and expended his vacation, but now needed some time to adjust his life to his new circumstances. His leave was granted and then rescinded because paperwork. He stomped off, had a temper tantrum, calmed down, and accepted the decision.
I, on the other hand, called a meeting with HR and his supervision to find out what kind of non-leave support they were giving him so as to not have a scene which ends with dead bodies. Arrange for counselling? Permission to walk off the job periodically to control his temper? Talk to the health department about controlling diabetes? Anything?
All of these people, with backgrounds in HR and making much more money than I was because, you know, management, were STUNNED. Not a single thing had occurred to them except that perhaps they should make the policy about leaves more clear. The fact that a clearly reticent and old-school manly man had asked for help and was refused it, and may become a danger to himself or others completely escaped their attention. It was all procedural for them.
And this is one of the many, many reasons why I’m pro-union. (It all ended well, and nobody was axe-murdered, just so you know.)
*my hair is mostly WHITE.
@Unimaginative, As a fellow (former) shop steward, I say good job!
That’s an opinion piece, Slavey.
Not that you know the difference between “fact” and “opinion” in the first place.
Do they realize that if there are no more white women, there will be no more white men?
Bostonian: some do. It all depend whether they’re more racist or more misogynist.
Shit, the MRAs have managed a plan I don’t completely hate — that’d leave America to the Native Americans, which works by me. (Wonder if they’d consider me white and then flip out when they found out I’m of Native descent…probably) — In any case, all the MRAs fleeing America would be fine by me, there are, after all, still plenty of feminist men and men who don’t much care about politics.
QFT! Because fuck, wouldn’t most people rather be there for a friend who’s going through a break up and not really depressed than laugh that everyone feels that way sometimes only to end up attending a funereal? The right thing to do here should be obvious!
Pecunium, the funniest part about the “lurking” line from cella is that lurking generally just means reading without commenting…and is usually seen as being the polite way to feel out a forum/site before commenting. Akin to the way I’ve been reading on and off here for months before I started commenting. It’s about the silliest thing I’ve ever seen anyone “accused” of in other words (versus “have you read anything else on the site before you commented?” where any answer of “no” is kind of asshole-ish)
Argenti: I don’t think they see it that way. I think they see their fora as some sort of clubhouse, where they can talk about things and not have anyone else know about it. So, “eavesdropping” is something “gentlemen don’t do”, and Dave is breaking the unwritten rules.
Now, he’s not a member of the club, so he doesn’t have to abide by the rules. But he’s male, so they can’t dismiss him as summarily as they can a woman. That he has a wider readership also adds to the dismay.
He’s using their words to show the rest of the world what they believe, and the combined hatred, stupidity and at times just inanity which is their belief system.
It’s just not fair to hoist them on their own petards.