For a bunch of guys who love to pretend they don’t care about women, Men Going Their Own Way certainly do love to talk about them. So much so that I’m thinking they may need to update their little acronym to MGTOAW: Men Going Tediously On About Women.
Over on MGTOWforums.com, for example, the regulars are having their tenth billion discussion about how women totally get all ugly as they get older, while men get handsomer and more awesome. Gannicus, himself 40 years YOUNG, starts things off with this:
To me, one of the most obvious things a man should notice is that in the US, most American women have fallen apart or completely without value by 40.
Is it just me, or does that “in the US, most American women” bit remind you of Miss South Carolina and her “US Americans?”
I know some will say it happens earlier, but lets just stick with a round number. And lets forget about virtue, loyalty, honesty, etc for a moment, which we know is not exactly known to be a top export of American women. Just being completely shallow and superficial, based on appearance alone, I find it disgusting and repulsive to view virtually any woman at 40. I just turned 40 and I am proud of my appearance. I expect to continue taking care of my body,etc.
However, I feel that based on looks. weight, hair, facial quality, etc. that 1% or less of Amercian women at 40 are, shall we say,bangable or even tolerable if you had to stare at for 10 minutes. And lets not even mention that wretched term from a bygone era called feminity. That is almost unheard of in the US in any age group. …
Which then leads me to wonder what the hell do young guys think their female partners will look like at 40? I mean, do they think THEIR girl will be different?
I’m just throwing this out as a hypothesis here, but I’m guessing that “most young guys” aren’t angry, bitter, woman-hating assholes who think all women over 40 are hideous hagbeasts.
Back on MGTOWforums.com, Downandout repectfully disagrees with Gannicus thesis. He believes that many women get ugly long before they hit 40.
It’s not so much that American women hit 40, it’s that 40 hits American women. Hard.
Jokes aside, I don’t think you can peg it to one number. A lot of skanks are starting to look awful in their 20s. Take Lindsay Lohan for example. Girls are starting to drink, do drugs, eat shit, and party hard at a very early age. Their small bodies can’t take that kind of abuse, and it’s showing. On top of that, they wear pounds of makeup to cover up the abuse, which only further contributes to the problem.
Deathslayer quotes the expert testimony of a colleague who calls himself RealDealBrotha:
Look at how quickly these chick fall COMPLETELY off, yet they STILL think they can do everything a man does for as long as a man does it…. NOT! …
Look at all the females who whore away their prime years, or go into career mode, or just choose men for silly reasons and NOT try to better themselves enough to be WORTHY of a good man (who is NOT a simp) wifing them up. They have so little regard for men that they think that they can have good men at their beck and call after they’re aged out fat chicks dragging around kids who they had with other men. It REALLY does NOT work that way, yet they don’t ever figure out the obvious until it’s too late.
We see and hear this story all the time. It comes up so often, that it’s really funny to me now. It warms my heart to know how badly these arrogant, misandric, selfish, worthless women are doomed to crash, burn and live the remainder of their wretched lives as bitter old maids whose only value will be as jumpoffs for bottom-feeder men who lack the guts and the nuts to raise the bar.
It’s always nice to see MGTOWers complain about misandry in comments overflowing with angry misogyny.
Toadman, for his part, seems happy to ignore women altogether, celebrating his independence by sitting at home eating canned food that’s way past its expiration date.
I have an unopened can of pork-and-beans in the cupboard that will taste the same as when canned. It’s lasted longer than the 10-15 years of female fertile desireability. Talk about “shelf-life”.
As they say, living well is the best revenge.
There are so many stunning women over 40, and I am far more likely to find older women sexy than older men, though that could be a matter of personal taste. It’s so strange to me as a 23 year old who sometimes looks at the undergrads on the bus and thinks “they look so young, it’s hard to believe I am only a few years older” to imagine a 40 year old wanting to date them as the default.
I’m 26 and I don’t have any gray hairs! That I’ve noticed.
I kind of want to go gray, though. I think it’ll make me look very serious and wise, or something.
I bet you could cook those sausages in the non-pork baked beans and they would taste bangin’.
“There are so many stunning women over 40,”
Where? you talking about the celebrity list that was mentioned?
There are a few exceptions but remember the exceptions always proves the rule.
Everybody has their own taste, I appreciate a beautiful woman 🙂
Cliff: I really want gray hair! I’ve always wanted to look like Sophie from Howl’s Moving Castle. But it’s really hard to dye your hair gray apparently. 🙁
Adding my anecdata to the age issue: I’m twenty and I get a lot of “too young to know anything about gender!” comments from MRAs. So to be taken seriously as a woman you must be at least older than twenty.
“The exception that proves the rule” is the most nonsense saying ever.
“All swans are white.”
“Hey, there’s an entire species of black swans in Australia!”
“Pfft, they’re the exception that proves the rule. Just goes to show all swans are white.”
I’ve had sex with four women over the age of 40, and all were more than satisfactory in terms of being “bangable”.
Come to think of it, two were American.
@Cliff — lucky! I was still in HS when my first grey made its appearance. Thinking about it though, my FWB will be 28 soon and I don’t think he’s got any yet either. If I go grey anything like my mother and aunts did though, I won’t mind much either.
@DYOR — as I said above, those aunts are both 60~ and look more like 40. Neither is a model, actress, or anything of the sort. Heck, the younger one could still pass for 35 if her step-daughter wasn’t that age!
My boyfriend is 28 and he’s getting a little gray around the temples. But he’s a man so clearly that’s irrelevant so long as he’s rich and treats me badly!
@ozymandias — manic panic Virgin Snow is pretty close to grey.
“The exception that proves the rule” is the most nonsense saying ever.
Not inevitably–my recent one was realizing that all my games are about animals, except for the one where you are a shapeshifter who turns into different animals–but certainly most of the time.
I assume by “the exceptions prove the rule” DYOR means “those women don’t look 40,” except of course they look 40 because they are 40 and therefore that’s what 40 looks like.
29 here, and so far grey-free, at least as far as I can tell. I feel special now. (In a “this isn’t actually a thing that matters, but hey, yay me, I guess” sort of way.)
My boyfriend is going grey in a super-sexy fashion – rather than getting grey around the temples or something like most people seem to, his silver hairs are distributed perfectly evenly around his head. Given that he has dark brown hair, the overall effect of one in every, I dunno, 500 hairs or so being silver is that, in the right light, his head is sparkly. I joke that I’m dating a Twilight vampire, only without the sulky-sexist-horrible-emo-stalkerness. If I can pull off the same effect, I’m totally down for grey hairs. (Unfortunately, with hair as long as mine, when I do actually start going grey it’ll probably just look weird. Oh well.)
I’m only 21, and I don’t have any grey hairs yet. However, I’m kind of hoping that I’ll go white like my grandmother did–she had the same color and texture as mine, so I think there’s a good chance I will.
Am I the only person who thinks that bright white/silver hair is often really pretty on older women? There’s a woman I see around town sometimes who has sort of a pixie cut, I’m guessing she’s in her 50s, and I think the color is just gorgeous on her. I’m 38 and would definitely consider hooking up with someone who looks like that. Also echoing whoever said it upstream – I see far more women in the 40+ range who’re still very attractive than men. Probably a combination of women making more effort and the fact that we tend to take better care of our health.
With the older MGTOW I picture them looking kind of like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scream.jpg
But with more wrinkles, particularly around the mouth. Personality really does start to show on your face at a certain age, so being angry little balls of hate can’t be doing anything good for their appearances.
To say something like “Helen Mirren looks great for a woman in her sixties” implies that women in their sixties generally don’t look great. The minute you mark something as an exception, you’re implying that it exists in relationship to some corresponding rule or trend.
That’s how “the exception proves the rule” is supposed to work.
I agree that bright white and silver hair can be very pretty on older women. I just love Paula Deen’s hair. I also think Jaime Lee Curtis has a beautiful mixture of dark and gray hair, and the short cut really works on her, too. I’m glad to see some women in the entertainment business that are allowing themselves to look their age and show other women that getting older is not a bad thing.
In this case, the very fact that the one species is referred as “black swans” (their color always has to be pointed out) implies that, as a general rule, swans are not black. It’s not that they empirically “prove” that all swan are white, they just prove that swans are generally understood as not being black.
I am not in any way defending MRAs nonsense; I’m just trying to clarify a misunderstood and misused phrase.
Hey Manjaw! Stick around; it’s Creativity Night at my pals’ place and I’m warming up with a sketch of you (or what I imagine you to be) before going to work on my comic project. I should have it done soon!
*totally has no clue what the current discussion is, sorry guys, just wanted to catch the Mighty before she wandered away*
Another example of women ageing well – Diane Weist. I think she actually got prettier as she got older.
It’s so sad how American culture doesn’t even seem to have the idea of older women being pretty as a concept. I remember watching the behind the scenes interviews for an animated movie called Millenium Actress, and the director talking about the character design and how he wanted to make the star “a really pretty old lady”, and you can totally see it in the design they ended up with, but watching him say that made me sad for a moment because I can’t imagine seeing an American director say the same thing.
(BTW I highly recommend the guy who directed that movie, and his other movies. He passed away a few years ago – one of the most genuinely empathic towards women directors out there, in my opinion. I put off watching Perfect Blue for years because given the subject matter I was worried it was going to be horribly creepy and exploitative, but actually he nailed it.)
I guess that guy doesn’t notice the receding hairlines and pot bellies on men over the age of 40?
Manjaw, while I get that you’re just correcting a misused phrase, what about, for example, “smart for a pretty girl”? If the exception really always proves the rule, then pretty girls aren’t usually smart. (Which they probably aren’t to MRAs…)
Maybe “the exception proves the rule (even if the rule is bogus)”?
Yes. Here’e the clearest way to put it:
The exception proves the rule exists. Not that it’s “true” or valid.
@Argenti Aertheri
“How much do you think it’s about naivete versus their belief all non-virgins are sluts?”
It really has nothing to do with naivete. Everyone of you here is belligerent, rude, obnoxious, sexist, racist, vengeful, spiteful, hateful, vain, arrogant, disloyal and spoiled. Not the most endearing of qualities representing such a diverse crew of women. However, the lip service is unparalleled.
What the phrase “She’s smart for a pretty girl” proves is that there is a cultural trend or “rule” that says pretty girls are not smart. The fact that the speaker is making an exception demonstrates the presence of a rule.
Someone who actually believes that the “rule” reflects objective facts might say that the “fact” that only a few women are smart and pretty “proves” that IN GENERAL, as a “general rule” pretty girls are not smart and/or vice versa.