Women’s Suffrage: Still controversial, apparently

However, the poor are generally a drain on society

http://zinelibrary.info/files/nobosses_0.pdf

When trolls use logical fallacies you can debate them and put the smack down, but you can’t do that if you don’t even know what they’re saying.

@John — “Argenti-I’m well aware what the 9th amendment means although all of this may be new to you.Roe v Wade was decided on privacy. This whole abortion thing is really irrelevant today because abortion pills are used and anyone with any sense would have the chemical abortion within the time period which is like 50 days from the start of the last period.”

I hate repeating myself, so scroll up for my answer regarding the 9th versus 14th Amendments. First question — are you conflating the morning after pill with RU-486? The latter is probably what you are referring to as “the abortion pill”. Second, it works for 50~ days gestation — that’s calculated from the date of her last period, meaning odds are good that by the time she suspects she might be pregnant, the first 30 days have already passed. And that’s assuming she realizes she’s pregnant the first time she misses her period, if she has implantation bleeding she may not realize until the 2nd month, which blows through the RU-486 time frame.

Also, because of how it works, if there’s any question whether that time frame is over — she doesn’t know whether she got her period last month or that was implantation bleeding for example — they’re not going to give her the script, because it could be medically unsafe. And then *gasp* surgical abortion comes into play (wtf makes you think chemical abortion isn’t preferred when medically possible? it’s not always medicinally possible >.<)

Sandra, I am curious what you mean by “biologically inferior.” Also, the whole “evolve or die” thing too. I mean, are you trying to say that I won’t get to become one of those bumbling dads as portrayed affectionately in the yogurt and diaper commercials, because I intend to live through my work.
Pay attention to that last part. I want some scathing rebuttals here or at least half-decent ad hominems, and I don’t get that when you just talk about how I don’t pleasure enough women. This is a matter of mutual benefit, I get a challenge and you get to put me in my place or whatever. So try to remember it.

Calm down there Sandra, you’re getting hysterical over nothing. And stop confusing race with sex.

Ff. I knew that would be your citation. And look! Antifeminists earn more, but its still not enough to take care of the financial needs of the stay at home parent!

Yay! You too can sell out another human being for a mere pittance!

That the Good Rev. cannot see the irony himself just goes to show how lacking in humanity he is.

She’s mad.

From a history of suffrage in Wyoming:

In the convention called the first Monday of September, 1889 to prepare a constitution for admission as a State, this was the first clause presented for consideration:

The right of citizens of the State of Wyoming to vote and hold office shall not be denied or abridged on account of sex. Both male and female citizens of this State shall enjoy all civil, political and religious rights and privileges.

[…]

The woman suffrage clause was retained as a part of the constitution, which was adopted by more than a three-fourths majority of the popular vote.

A bill to provide for the admission of Wyoming as a State was introduced into the House of Representatives on Dec. 18, 1889, and later was favorably reported from the Committee on Territories by Charles S. Baker of New York. A minority report was presented by William M. Springer of Illinois, consisting of twenty-three pages, two devoted to various other reasons for non-admission and twenty-one to objections because of the woman suffrage article.

As it was supposed that the new State would be Republican, a bitter fight was waged by the Democrats, using the provision for woman suffrage as a club. The bill was grandly championed by Joseph M. Carey, delegate from the Territory (afterward United States senator) who defended the suffrage clause with the same courage and ability as all the others in the constitution.

The principal speech in opposition was by Joseph E. Washington of Tennessee, who said in part:

My chief objection to the admission of Wyoming is the suffrage article in the constitution. I am unalterably opposed to female suffrage in any form. It can only result in the end in unsexing and degrading the womanhood of America. It is emphatically a reform against nature I have no doubt that in Wyoming to-day women vote in as many [different] precincts as they can reach on horseback or on foot after changing their frocks and bustles Tennessee has not yet adopted any of these new-fangled ideas, not that we are lacking in respect for true and exalted womanhood.

William C: Gates of Alabama also delivered a long speech in opposition, of which the following is a specimen paragraph:

I like a woman who is a woman and appreciates the sphere to which God and the Bible have assigned her. I do not like a manwoman. She may be intelligent and full of learning, but when she assumes the performance of the duties and functions assigned by nature to man, she becomes rough and tough and can no longer be the object of affection.

He concluded his argument by saying that if ever universal suffrage should prevail the Government would break to pieces of its own weight.

The enfranchisement of women was also vehemently attacked by Alexander M. Dockery of Missouri, George T. Barnes of Georgia, William M. Springer of Illinois, and William McAdoo of New Jersey. It was strongly defended by Henry L. Morey oi Ohio, Charles S. Baker of New York, Daniel Kerr and I. S. Struble, both of Iowa, and Harrison B. Kelley of Kansas.

Every possible effort was made to compel the adoption of an amendment limiting the suffrage to male citizens, and it was defeated by only six votes. The bill of admission was passed March 28, 1890, after three days’ discussion, by 139 ayes to 127 noes. During the progress of this debate Delegate Carey telegraphed to the Wyoming Legislature, then in session, that it looted as if the suffrage clause would have to be abandoned if Statehood were to be obtained, and the answer came back: “We will remain out of the Union a hundred years rather than come in without woman suffrage.”

In the Senate the fight against the suffrage article was renewed with added intensity. The bill for the admission of Wyoming was reported favorably through the chairman of the Committee on Territories, Orville H. Platt of Connecticut, in January, 1890, but was not reached on the calendar until February 17. On objection from Francis M. Cockrell of Missouri, that there was not time then for its consideration, it was postponed, but without losing its place on the calendar. Not until May 2, however, did it come up again as unfinished business, and only to be again postponed. On May 8 the bill was set down for the following Monday, but it was June 25 before it finally received extended consideration. The debate continued for three days and the clause conferring suffrage on women took a prominent place.

[…]

After every possible device to strike out the obnoxious clause had been exhausted, the bill to admit Wyoming as a State was passed on June 27, 1890, by 29 ayes, 18 noes, 37 absent. Although Henry W. Blair of New Hampshire and Henry M. Teller of Colorado interposed remarks showing a thorough belief in the enfranchisement of women, there was no formal argument in its behalf, it being generally understood that all Republicans would vote for the bill in order to admit a Republican State, and a number did so who were not in favor of woman suffrage.

When the people of Wyoming met at Cheyenne, July 23, to celebrate their Statehood, by Gov. Francis E. Warren sat Mrs. Amalia Post, president of the Woman Suffrage Association. The first and principal oration of the day was made by Mrs. Theresa A. Jenkins, of which the History of Wyoming says:

Proceeding to the front of the platform, Mrs. Jenkins, in clear, forceful tones which penetrated to the very outskirts of the crowd, delivered without manuscript or notes an address which in logic and eloquence has rarely if ever been equaled by any woman in the land. . . . . At its conclusion she received an ovation and was presented with a magnificent basket of flowers.

The great incident of the celebration, the presenting of the flag, next followed. Mrs. Esther Morris, the “mother” of the woman suffrage movement in this State, who is widely respected for her great ability and heroic womanhood, was by general consent accorded the post of honor and made the presentation to Governor Warren. Gathering its folds about her she said:

“On behalf of the women of Wyoming, and in grateful recognition of the high privilege of citizenship which has been conferred upon us, I have the honor to present to the State of Wyoming this beautiful banner. May it always remain the emblem of our liberties, ‘and the flag of the Union forever.'”

The Governor, on receiving it from Mrs. Morris, made an eloquent response during which he paid this tribute to women:

“Wyoming in her progress has not forgotten the hands and hearts that have helped advance her to this high position; and, in the adoption of her constitution, equal suffrage is entrenched so firmly that it is believed it will stand forever Women of Wyoming, you have builded well, and the men of Wyoming extend heartiest greeting at this time. They congratulate you upon your achievements, and ask you to join them in the future, as in the past, in securing good government for our commonwealth.”

The poet of the day was a woman, Mrs. I. S. Bartlett, who gave The True Republic. In every possible way the men showed their honor and appreciation of the women, and from this noble attitude they never have departed.

from The History of Woman of Woman Suffrage, Volume IV, 1883-1900, edited by Susan B. Anthony and Ida Husted Harper, 1902, pages 995-1005. Link

Pilowhead writes “Most of the poor don’t stay poor forever. In fact, the working poor don’t generally take up much resources”

So that unwed mother who sends her 2 kids to school at $30k per year subsidised by bachelors like me doesn’t use much resources? Hey, I’ll personally pay for her abortions, she doesn’t even have to rely on Obama.

correlation is not causation

I never said that. It seems that the male antifeminists are the ones thriving in today’s economy and the feminists are the ones dying, relatively speaking. Sandra was going on about how we were biologically and intellectually inferior for disagreeing with her, and as a gentleman I addressed and corrected that misconception.

John I call bullshit. First you try to pass yourels off as an expert on Law. Now you tell us you’re a doctor, but you haven’t got the foggiest clue on the biological facts of cis womanhood or any idea of how that interacts with state law on abortions.

Pull the other one, its got bells.

@pillowinhell, mea culpa, I was making assumptions off things I heard years ago, I should know better.

@ideologuereview — ok fine, I’ll give you a longer answer. The study you cited says that men who believe in traditional gender roles get paid more on average than men who don’t, agreed?

Sandra was referring to the usual MRAs around here, and people so misogynistic they don’t think women should even be allowed to vote, I think. That does not equal “men who hold traditional gender roles” and without the original study, I can’t guess at the overlap. (And if you can’t procreate because no woman will speak to you, then yeah, you’re going to die out) Traditional gender roles generally means “wife doesn’t work” not “wife not allowed to vote” and again, without the original study, neither of us knows what those men endorsed/disagreed with.

Correlation is not causation is statistical geek short hand for “great, you’ve proven the variables are in some way related, now can you figure out how they’re related?” because that’s a lot trickier to do. Months with higher ice cream sales also see fewer flu deaths, so ice cream must protect against the flu right? (Temperature is the causal factor here, and why this is a favorite stats 101 example)

@John Thomas, Why should abortion clinics be only in poor neighborhoods?