I’m too lazy to write a real post today, so I thought I’d point you all to a pretty decent analysis of the dreaded “friend zone” by Foz Meadows on goodreads.
Here she is addressing the “Nice Guys” of the world:
[S]omewhere along the line, you’ve got it into your head that if you’re romantically interested in a girl who sees you only as a friend, her failure to reciprocate your feelings is just that: a failing. That because you’re nice and treat her well, she therefore owes you at least one opportunity to present yourself as a viable sexual candidate, even if she’s already made it clear that this isn’t what she wants. That because she legitimately enjoys a friendship that you find painful (and which you’re under no obligation to continue), she is using you. That if a man wants more than friendship with a woman, then the friendship itself doesn’t even attain the status of a consolation prize, but is instead viewed as hell: a punishment to be endured because, so long as he thinks she owes him that golden opportunity, he is bound to persist in an association that hurts him – not because he cares about the friendship, but because he feels he’s invested too much kindness not to stick around for the (surely inevitable, albeit delayed) payoff.
Seriously, Nice Guys, if you think of your friendship with a woman as a means to an end, or some kind of purgatory, then it’s not really a friendship, and you’re doing both yourself and your crush a disservice by persisting in it. (I learned this lesson myself the hard way, a long time before there were helpful internet posts explaining to me why Nice Guying was a recipe for crappiness all around.)
Speaking of learning: I also learned from Foz Meadows’ post that there is a Wikipedia entry for “friend zone,” complete with advice on how dudes can avoid getting “friendzoned” in the first place.
Several advisers urged men, during the initial dates, to touch women physically in appropriate places such as elbows or shoulders as a means of increasing the sexual tension. … Adviser Ali Binazir agrees, and suggested for the man to be a “little bit dangerous”, not in a violent sense, but “with a bit of an edge to them”, and be unpredictable and feel “comfortable in their skin as sexual beings.”
Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia … for Your Penis*.
Also: Here is the official Friend Zone anthem, “Consolation Prize” by Orange Juice. Lyrics here.
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* Hetero cis penis only.
THermos;
“ass ugly saggers”
Has it not occured to you that this is offensive to women? Are you reducing a woman’s sole value based on the firmness of her body?
If I were to refer to a class of men as “limp dicked anal leakers” you would be foaming at the mouth. But of course, I would never say such a think in all seriousness because I have respect for men.
It’s delusional. Can I get a translation into English please? (Or Classical Latin, that’d be fun to read)
Ooh, here’s another good one!
If women are sexualized in media, this proves that women are evilly trying to distract men with our wiles.
If women aren’t sexualized in media, this proves that women are evilly preventing men from exercising their natural urges, and are probably just jealous because they’re so saggy.
Crumb, check your PMs 🙂
I do not believe i owe the saggers any respect at all because they have shown no respect to men in their misandrist female supremacist agendas.
“Mmmmm, lardfat is the best fat.” lard really does make the best peanut butter cookies (try the soylent green, it’s delicious!)
Do threads always go completely off topic the moment an MRA shows up or should I try to stay on topic?
No, the trick to peanut butter cookies is to use all-natural peanut butter because the emulsifiers and fillers in other types mess with the texture. Anyway that’s what my grandma taught me.
Hey, I object. It is a truth universally acknowledged that cookies should be made with butter.
(We had a long derail about bra sizing once, anything can happen.)
This is why we can’t take you seriously. You assign us feelings that we absolutely do not have, and do not display, in an attempt to peg us as evil, manipulative, witches. Directly after we stated that all rape is wrong, you claim that we wish that men were raped more? What is wrong with you?
As for discussing that males who have been victims of women do not come forward, I have no doubt that this happens. Just as I have no doubt, and have plenty of anecdata of my own experience, and the experiences of my friends, family, and peers, that many female rape victims also don’t come forward. And it’s due to many of the same reasons that men don’t: Shame, fear of not being believed, harmful stereotypes perpetuated by their peers and society as a whole, lack of evidence which would lead to a “he said, she said” trial, etc.
I have no problem with addressing this issue. The problems I do have are with the way that MRAs tend to tackle this issue.
1. By demonizing women, insisting that this is something that most women do, and justify to each other, and believe is right.
2. By downplaying the phenomenon of the very same thing also happening to women and attempting to discredit the women who don’t report as women who have not been raped.
3. Blaming feminists for this problem, when men, and MRAs even, are just as guilty, if not more, of perpetuating the harmful stereotypes that cause men to feel that they either cannot be the victims of rape, or should be happy to be raped.
If there is one thing that I believe as a feminist, it is that the rape of anyone, by anyone, is wrong. And one of my goals is to spread awareness about what constitutes rape, what constitutes consent, and that anyone, regardless of gender, race, age, sexual orientation, religion, ability, occupation, dress type, sexual history, and any other qualifier you can possibly think of, can be the victim of rape. And when I read current feminist blogs, listen to feminist podcasts, and read feminist comments sections, I see feminists trying their hardest to be inclusive. To call each other out on their problematic comments, and to address the systemic oppression of other groups as just as valid as the systemic oppression of women. While there is always some ignorance on everyone’s part just due to human nature, and not being able to be all-knowing beings, I see people making an effort to educate those that they see making these problematic comments.
Meanwhile, every time I read a blog, listen to a podcast, or read a comments section of an MRA, I see EVIL WOMEN, EVIL FAT PEOPLE, EVIL FEMINISTS, EVIL DISABLED, EVIL LESBIANS! And I don’t see ANYONE, besides maybe a rogue feminist, calling them on their bullshit. I see MRAs letting these problematic, sexist, ableist, homophobic, racist, etc, comments slide. The only time I see MRAs calling anyone on a problematic comment is when it’s clear that it was made by a feminist.
THIS IS A PROBLEM!
If you want to spread the word that feminists are non-inclusive bigots, and that MRAs are the champions of truth, justice, and equality for all, you might want to start, you know, actually being inclusive. Not saying that because women like girlwriteswhat agree with you, she happens to be one of the very few sane, logical women on the planet, and liking her somehow makes you not sexist. But respecting the experiences and resulting viewpoints of all groups as valid, and not discounting them as not important. And not considering relationship problems, which everyone goes through, as a form of systemic oppression.
Because believe you me, I find the rape of men to be very damn important. I just have a problem with the way the facts are misrepresented in a way that makes it seem as though the problem is significantly more common than it actually is, and the way that MRAs want to talk about how big of a problem it is while simultaneously spouting the same rhetoric that causes the victimization of men to begin with
But what about all the butt-mustached ugly sag-women? What about THEM???
Why is it that when MRAs insult a woman they immediately trash her looks, even if he has never seen said female in person. When you say that we have mustaches, fat butts, saggy tits, stretched out vaginas, missing teeth, gray hairs on our nipples, and so on and so on, do you really think you are insulting us, and that we are going to run away and cry?
I know what I look like. My tits are spectactular, by the way. And considering my husband can’t keep his hands off my ass, I would say that part of my body is pretty hot as well.
It’s especially comical when MRAs say “If Jessica Valenti was spread eagle in front of me I wouldn’t do her for a million dollars,” Yes, MRAs, not only is Valenti NOT sexually available to you, I seriously doubt you would be in a position to turn her down, even if she was. MRAs frequently mention how these whores will be raped once men call bullshit on their crap and stop protecting them. I wonder what type of man would be first in line…Paul Elam?
Hear that, everyone? Sag = misandry! Loose skin = feminist agenda! Oh teh noes!
I am telling yall its pell.
Okay, now I really want peanut butter cookies and bacon.
Look, it’s a feminist!
Tell us about your family, Mr sag-women. Do you happen to have an Uncle Monty?
I’m actually a fairly taut butt-ugly mustached woman. Chubby, certainly, but it doesn’t really sag anywhere.
WHAT NOW
@CassandraSays, one exception to that universal rule though, peanut butter cookies, because Katz is right about the texture of them, butter just doesn’t hold the whole mess together right. (Not that lard is particularly easy to find anymore)
Or Classical Latin, that’d be fun to read
Hmm…I could handle “prolefeed,” but I’d get stuck at the bit about IVs (even though it’s a Latin-root term).
Is this because you need a means to render us no longer sexually attractive in your minds? Because it would be disastrous to your psychological well being if feminists were actually the hot, sexy, intelligent creatures you desire.
Katz
I had that book when I was little! Oh, the memories.
@Katz, I was more hoping to distract him than give myself another Cicero level headache, I really don’t much miss reading that (though, Cicero was a master at fish-insults, whichever thread that was in)
@katz If modern Icelandic can handle these kinds of things I bet Classical Latin could too.
Most peanut butter cookies also have butter in them, though, don’t they? Mine does at any rate. So the butter/margarine/lard question still holds.
And poke the troll, guys! I’ve only got 5 minutes to make him explode!
Another goddamn Activia commercial! I swear. Women, just eat some damn fiber!