I’m too lazy to write a real post today, so I thought I’d point you all to a pretty decent analysis of the dreaded “friend zone” by Foz Meadows on goodreads.
Here she is addressing the “Nice Guys” of the world:
[S]omewhere along the line, you’ve got it into your head that if you’re romantically interested in a girl who sees you only as a friend, her failure to reciprocate your feelings is just that: a failing. That because you’re nice and treat her well, she therefore owes you at least one opportunity to present yourself as a viable sexual candidate, even if she’s already made it clear that this isn’t what she wants. That because she legitimately enjoys a friendship that you find painful (and which you’re under no obligation to continue), she is using you. That if a man wants more than friendship with a woman, then the friendship itself doesn’t even attain the status of a consolation prize, but is instead viewed as hell: a punishment to be endured because, so long as he thinks she owes him that golden opportunity, he is bound to persist in an association that hurts him – not because he cares about the friendship, but because he feels he’s invested too much kindness not to stick around for the (surely inevitable, albeit delayed) payoff.
Seriously, Nice Guys, if you think of your friendship with a woman as a means to an end, or some kind of purgatory, then it’s not really a friendship, and you’re doing both yourself and your crush a disservice by persisting in it. (I learned this lesson myself the hard way, a long time before there were helpful internet posts explaining to me why Nice Guying was a recipe for crappiness all around.)
Speaking of learning: I also learned from Foz Meadows’ post that there is a Wikipedia entry for “friend zone,” complete with advice on how dudes can avoid getting “friendzoned” in the first place.
Several advisers urged men, during the initial dates, to touch women physically in appropriate places such as elbows or shoulders as a means of increasing the sexual tension. … Adviser Ali Binazir agrees, and suggested for the man to be a “little bit dangerous”, not in a violent sense, but “with a bit of an edge to them”, and be unpredictable and feel “comfortable in their skin as sexual beings.”
Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia … for Your Penis*.
Also: Here is the official Friend Zone anthem, “Consolation Prize” by Orange Juice. Lyrics here.
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* Hetero cis penis only.
Here are the facts: men who are raped essentially never come forward, especially if they’ve been raped by rapist women. And the rapist women will go on to violate and assault and rape more men with their psychopathic behavior that is enabled by a society that encourages and privileges bad socio-psychopathic female behavior.
It’s rare for a woman to forcibly rape a man, only because of the huge strength difference (I’m sure many, many feminists wish it happened more often in their socio-psychopathic thoughts). But coercive behavior, blackmailing, sperm-stealing, is all something that is not only ignored, but TACITLY ENCOURAGED by the misandrist, “grrl-power”-obsessed media. Since men are demonized when it comes to rape, there is virtually no anti-rapist sentiment directed toward women…. and thus, a great many women come to think that it simply doesn’t apply to them (this also applies in other areas, like domestic violence). Privileged women feel as though they can push sexual boundaries in a way that would never be acceptable for a man. It’s one of the paramount female privileges in our society, in fact.
I redid the math using Skeptical Cubefarmers CDC source, and I’m getting 3.9% even when I combine their definitions for rape and other sexual assault — the inverse of 93.3% of male rape victims having male perpetrators is that 6.7% have female perpetrators, but with the number of male rape victims being 1.4%, that works out to less than .1% — add that to the 3.8% above and it’s just about 3.9% (I’ll do the tiny numbers math out if anyone wants it, but I think part of the confusion is in trying to deal with this as just numbers)
Back on topic, friends-with-benefits don’t exist in MRA-land I assume?
@Thermos H. Christ yawwnnn
Here are the facts
Has that phrase ever preceded a reasonable statement?
I’m leaning towards “yes, but only in action movies where a gruff commander is briefing a ragtag team before a mission.”
@ Thermos
I think it is MEN who perpetuate the fallacy that is ok for a woman to rape a man. How many times have a heard “Why didn’t my hot teacher rape ME in high school?” or “Damn that kid is so lucky, too bad his mom called the police an screwed it up.” No feminist I have known has condoned female to male rape. It is often men who perpectuate the attititude that they want sex all the time, for anyone, and are fools for turning down any offer. “You can’t rape the willing,” these men would say, and shame any man who dares to speak against this culture. Women are not natural predators, nor are they comfortable with this double standard, as it implies that female to male rape is actually a good thing, and male to female rape is only bad because women NEVER want sex. Before you start trashing the feminist “misandrist” society you so rabidly perceive, look to your own gender first.
Yay! I’ve been let out of the moderation corral!
On topic: I kinda think that Friends-with-benefits is a real thing for MRAs, but I almost never hear about it… I only ever hear about how women are pretty much always abusing their partners or how women are always ignoring their ‘nice guy’ friends who are are totally better than the losers the FEMALE is currently dating but who are friendzoned forever because women earn some kind of ‘sexual capital’ from their friendzoned victims.
Or something. I don’t know. MRA “logic” and MRA “statistics” make my head hurt.
MEN have their own work to do, that is true. But at this point in history, it is Second Wave feminists who are primarily the gatekeepers of media- TV, newspapers, etc.- and as is factual, Second Wave feminists are the most rabidly misandrist group of bigots on planet Earth (see Tucker Max’s article on the subject, it’s excellent). This is why all criminal ads- especially rape and domestic violence- are targeted at MEN. They thus tacitly condone female socio-psychopathic behavior, and you can see the results before your eyes.
“But at this point in history, it is Second Wave feminists who are primarily the gatekeepers of media”
I’m going to need receipts on that.
I’m thinking this one is another NWO-lite, with less Illuminati in the tinfoil hat.
Tucker Max?! *SNORT!*
Alright, which one of you is trolling? Fess up!
Why do MRAs always gotta say things that make me sigh and go “oh man, I wish.“?
Yeah, Second Wave feminists are totally in charge of the media, that’s why the industry is massively dominated by men and widely uses sexualized images of women as decorations and trophies for their overwhelmingly male protagonists. Because of all the feminists.
There is some sexualization of women- but this is primarily prolefeed for the male masses. Actually it’s a perfect example of the misandry of the second Wave, that they attempt to placate men with a limited amount of sexualization. But if you look deeper, it’s the MEN that are portrayed as brutish, violent thugs, and women who are the heaven’s light. It’s about hate and dehumanization. This is exactly as the misandrist Second Wavers want it to be… they want to insert this inverted hierarchy into our heads.
Estimated time to meltdown: 1 hour
@Skeptical Cubefarmer, the only part of that that actually makes sense is “Or something. I don’t know. MRA “logic” and MRA “statistics” make my head hurt.” — with which I agree
@Cliff Pervocracy — “Why do MRAs always gotta say things that make me sigh and go “oh man, I wish.“?” idk why, but I know what you mean, doubt my second wave aunt would be photoshopping ads (for example, and there are so many examples)
Oh yes, I`m so glad Tucker Max, who treats women like disposable napkins, has some criticisms of feminism to make.
I actually agree with this. Sexism cuts both ways, and absolutely dehumanizes both sexes. (I don’t want to be “the heaven’s light.” I want to be a person.)
Where you got the idea that Second Wave feminists are doing this, though, is, er… curious.
Also, feminists control the government, which is why the government is overwhelmingly male and many state legislators have been working to limited womens@ reproductive rights.
Thermos, you’re proving everything that’s wrong with MRAs as an *actual* men’s rights movement — you manage to take one valid point — that the portrayal of men as thugs and violent is harmful to men — and twist it into how it’s feminism’s fault and we’re all just deluded, when really, it’s another strain of patriarchy demanding that for women to be the wilting flowers then men need to be violent to protect them (fuck, don’t MRAs even call for that shit?)
David, how much of a swear fest is acceptable? By my reading of the comments policy I’m good unless I’m swearing at someone?
working to limit *
lol and/or what Cliff said, I apparently need to type faster!
I guess Sigourney Weaver is a second wave feminist? She is the gatekeeper.
The Second Wavers are the most misandrist group in history, and the conspiracy makes sense given those facts.
Until the Second Wavers, the norm was masculinity as an good thing… a positive force…. now that is gone. “Masculinity” exists, but the Second Wavers interpret is as animalistic and low, and the only way to escape is to act like a woman (feminine, the “new age guy”, “sensitive men”).
Now that butt ugly mustached sag-women are controlling the media, “masculine” men are evil, while women and girly men are held up. The mustached sag-women want to essentially commit spiritual genocide of masculinity, and they have been very successful.
What’s the over/under on this dude being a returning troll versus a new one? They’re all starting to sound the same to me.
MRAs seem to perpetuate that stereotype quite a bit, talking about fucking up women`s “shit” and inflicting pain on their opposition.
RE: Thermos
SOME sexualization?
SOME?
Dude. I just saw X-men First Class. There is a parade of women in lingerie, Emma Frost constantly in lingerie, and Moira MacTaggart stripping to lingerie to infiltrate a club.
Men? I don’t even get to see ONE SHIRTLESS MAN. Never mind men in LINGERIE.
I get to see half-naked women on billboards everywhere. WHERE ARE MY HALF NAKED MEN THERMOS. WHERE ARE MY SEXUALIZED MEN FOR MY GUSTATION?
I’m a gay prolefeed, y’know. Why aren’t my Second Wave overlords trying to brainwash me with cock?