I’m too lazy to write a real post today, so I thought I’d point you all to a pretty decent analysis of the dreaded “friend zone” by Foz Meadows on goodreads.
Here she is addressing the “Nice Guys” of the world:
[S]omewhere along the line, you’ve got it into your head that if you’re romantically interested in a girl who sees you only as a friend, her failure to reciprocate your feelings is just that: a failing. That because you’re nice and treat her well, she therefore owes you at least one opportunity to present yourself as a viable sexual candidate, even if she’s already made it clear that this isn’t what she wants. That because she legitimately enjoys a friendship that you find painful (and which you’re under no obligation to continue), she is using you. That if a man wants more than friendship with a woman, then the friendship itself doesn’t even attain the status of a consolation prize, but is instead viewed as hell: a punishment to be endured because, so long as he thinks she owes him that golden opportunity, he is bound to persist in an association that hurts him – not because he cares about the friendship, but because he feels he’s invested too much kindness not to stick around for the (surely inevitable, albeit delayed) payoff.
Seriously, Nice Guys, if you think of your friendship with a woman as a means to an end, or some kind of purgatory, then it’s not really a friendship, and you’re doing both yourself and your crush a disservice by persisting in it. (I learned this lesson myself the hard way, a long time before there were helpful internet posts explaining to me why Nice Guying was a recipe for crappiness all around.)
Speaking of learning: I also learned from Foz Meadows’ post that there is a Wikipedia entry for “friend zone,” complete with advice on how dudes can avoid getting “friendzoned” in the first place.
Several advisers urged men, during the initial dates, to touch women physically in appropriate places such as elbows or shoulders as a means of increasing the sexual tension. … Adviser Ali Binazir agrees, and suggested for the man to be a “little bit dangerous”, not in a violent sense, but “with a bit of an edge to them”, and be unpredictable and feel “comfortable in their skin as sexual beings.”
Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia … for Your Penis*.
Also: Here is the official Friend Zone anthem, “Consolation Prize” by Orange Juice. Lyrics here.
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* Hetero cis penis only.
@Dracula — I went with that one because I think most people have experienced that at least once. Actually being steeped in it is certainly much worse though.
@Pecunium — I should’ve figured you’d know the type, with your military background. It’s late, I’m tired, and apparently my brain is going to sleep without me (insomnia, so that’s sort of the goal)
@Magpie — yeah exactly, just because you say so doesn’t make it true! Though…do any MRAs actually understand that?
Good lord, Vindicare’s right! If badgering people into sex is ethically wrong, then no one will ever have sex again! I have seen the light!
Seriously, there are so many ways to have non-coercive, mutually enjoyable sex. Why not just have sex those ways, instead of going “what can I get away with?”
I’ve sort of mentioned this already in this thread, but my partner’s happiness and desire for sex is really important to me. Both because it’s sexy when he’s all turned on and having a good time, and because I don’t want bad things to happen to him, especially if I’m doing them. That’s especially true because I love him, but it would be true if he was just some one-night stand, too, because he’s a person and I have no interest in doing bad things to other people.
I’m sorry, I missed that, I read it now, it was buried under the sushi talk.
Have I said that I posted a link somewhere? If you have a subscription for SAGE, you can access the study there.
Beware of Cassandra’s psionic powers!
It’s always fascinating to me that people like this seem to genuinely believe that their motives in asking these particular questions in this particular way are well hidden, when in fact they’re obvious to almost everyone reading.
Beware of Cassandra’s psionic powers!
Like reading.
Well I’m waiting for Ruby to start complaining about how meeeeean I am. I mean, it’s not like she SAID anything! And its certainly not like she’s DOING anything….
And that’s the part that really pisses me off, because her lack of action garantees the continued suffering of a great many people.
Ruby, give me a story about what you think the life of a poor family is like. And I want to hear all about those “bad” decisions and the situations that create them.