What do feminists want? Equal work for equal pay? An end to sexual violence? A new album from Le Tigre? Nope. According to the dude behind the still-awkwardly named Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Technology blog, what they really want is to GET THE RING and get hitched up to some nice man they can happily exploit. Yep, feminists love marriage more than almost anything. Why? Because getting married is the necessary first step towards getting a nice, profitable divorce. Mr. PMAFT explains:
Anyone who tells you that getting married and having children fights feminism is wrong. Feminism is dependent on marriage and family. Without it, feminism would collapse. When socons and tradcons push for marriage, they are working to create more feminism.
But …
Some of you are thinking, “what about all those feminists who want to ‘destroy marriage’?” … [T]his represents a misunderstanding of what feminism is and how pervasive it is. A few lesbians who want to destroy marriage don’t really represent the totality of feminism. The most prominent strain of feminism currently in existence is hybrid feminism or cafeteria feminism, which combines anything from what is traditionally thought of as “feminism” to conservatism and traditionalism that benefits women.
Um, I’m pretty sure that the traditionalists are not eating in the same cafeteria as the “cafeteria feminists.” But PMAFT is on a roll:
The hybrid or cafeteria feminist does not want to “destroy marriage” as such. They have no interest in living in lesbian communes. They want to be able to cash out and destroy THEIR marriages via divorce whenever they feel like it, but they still want to get married when they want. If marriage was completely destroyed, then they wouldn’t be able to fleece men of their children and financial assets because they wouldn’t be able to get married in the first place to have a divorce. Without the use of marriage and divorce, it becomes nearly impossible for feminism to steal the wealth of men. … Feminism is now completely dependent on marriage and family.
Huh, because most of the feminists I know, oh, never mind.
This is the reason why the marriage strike is such a large threat to feminism. Without men getting married, the engine of feminism doesn’t have the fuel it needs to keep going, and it stalls.
I’m pretty sure most feminist women will get along just fine even if they can’t marry you.
PMAFT can rest easy – he could not pay this feminist enough to marry him.
You know, I still don’t get this whole ‘marry-a-sucker-divorce-him-and-cash-in’ idea these guys have. I know when I got divorced, I didn’t get anything. I live in a no-fault state. We split our assets 50/50, signed the papers, and that was it.
I dated a man who was divorced with one child. He paid $250 a month in child support. He made considerably more than that. He wasn’t hurting financially and would buy his daughter school clothes, toys and books and ‘fairy princess’ costumes all the freakin’ time and still didn’t go broke.
And as many of the folks here have proven, men aren’t being tossed in jail right and left for non-child support payments. They have opportunity to advise the court of unemployment, etc., and it takes several months for the court to come after non-paying fathers.
So I don’t get it.
What are you talking about guys? Of course we love divorce! I don’t know about you, but I’m already planning my divorce party, and I’m not even married, or even engaged!!1!! It will included a long black dress (to contrast with the marriage), an evening spent teasing beta guys then a bit of sex with an über-alpha, then kicking puppies if I’ve still time left. Ex-husband will baby-sit the kids during this time, which he should probably enjoy since it will be the last time he see them. Then I’ll probably accuse him of DV or rape.
Honestly, I see marriage as I see abortion: a well needed option, but I don’t know anybody personally that did it just for the fun. (unless movies count. But they don’t)
Those women! They want free choice to begin AND end a marriage?
Why, this is just… just… EGALITARIAN! I shall not stand for this!
(Seriously, do they think MEN can’t get a divorce, or get involved in a marriage? We aren’t shoes, guys; women don’t just go and pick us up at a shop or something. We actually have AGENCY. We CHOOSE. But then again, my abuser felt it was unfair to him that someone could break up with him even if he didn’t want them to. So apparently they do exist.)
I guess what a lot of them don’t pay attention to is that if a man is being supported by his wife, and the wife makes more money, the wife has to pay alimony when they get divorced (assuming they’ve been together long enough that the laws support such things).
And yes, as others have said, either partner in a marriage can call for its end. Furthermore, there’s a such thing as a prenuptial agreement. If for some reason a man suspects his fiancée might suddenly spring SURPRISE CAFETERIA FEMINISM on him once they’re married–wow, sucker!–and turn into a raging bitch who will divorce him just to take his riches, it isn’t an offensive idea to draw up a prenuptial.
Works out a lot better than a “marriage strike.”
@Lady Zombie
We split our assets 50/50, signed the papers, and that was it.
^^ CLEARLY YOU FLEECED HIM.
Seriously though, I’m reminded of the cognitive bias whereby actual numeric equality is perceived by both men and women as “women getting more” – I’ve seen studies that looked at conversation time, and number of times kids were called upon in class.
I am sure that that’s a lot of what’s going on in the whole marry-him-and-steal-all-his-monies thing – actual equality is being perceived as men being fleeced. Obviously that’s not true in all cases – there are certainly cases where things are legitimately out of whack, though I expect women get the short end of the stick there at least as often as men.
I’m trying to image the Disney movie with this scenario. “And she divorced him and lived happily-ever-after.”
That’s a whole lotta stupid. I’ve often freely said that if I lived in a different time period I probably would be a nun, because they were educated and allowed to remain unmarried, a choice which I am happily able to make today without outrageous social ostracism THANKS TO FEMINISM.
Reasons I probably want to get married at some future point:
– Because my partner is awesome and the idea of spending the rest of my life with him sounds like fun.
– Because if I do end up spending the rest of my life with him, marriage offers various practical benefits to both of us.
– Because hey, good excuse for a big party where I get to wear a pretty dress and hang out with all my friends and family.
Reasons that have literally never occurred to me as reasons to get married:
– In order to get a divorce, because divorces are apparently now super fun and not stressful and frequently depressing legal hassles, contrary to the experience of pretty much all the divorced people I know.
(Also, you know, if I desperately wanted the guy who is in love with me to give me money, I could just say, “Hey, darling, could you give me some money?” And he quite possibly would! Because he is a nice person who loves me and likes giving me things! Kinda like I do for him, too! I don’t really understand why I’d have to go to all the trouble of marrying him, getting knocked up, and divorcing him, just to get him to do something that he’d do anyway and that I don’t actually have any particular interest in him doing in the first place.)
I genuinely feel bad for Mr. PMAFT, because while “mwahaha, imma divorce ALL THE MENZ” is a thought that has never occurred to me, I get the impression that “you could marry someone because you actually like them” is a thought that has never occurred to him.
Did PMAFT not feel he was being a sufficiently large asshole to women, that he had to also dig at lesbians for apparently destroying marriage by permitting more marriages to count as marriage? And don’t these ignorami usually acknowledge that a non-zero number of feminists are lesbians? What does he think the game plan is here?
I honestly can’t wait to see what DSC says to this, if anything. Zie’s given really good lecturants on just what is wrong with marriage and why it should stop holding sway as a cultural institution. I suppose PMAFT just magically knows zir number.
I enjoyed seeing someone realising there are lots of different sorts of feminism out there, and that it’s not a monolith. (From his post, I take it that some of us are out to Destroy All Men! Others, only to Steal Their Wealth! A mere fringe: To Destroy All Marriage! – and thus undercut the others; how does this work? How do the factions interact? I need to know!!!)
Could he be persuaded to do a Susan Walsh-style chart? Because I’ve had a horrible week at work and want some amusement.
In fact, I demand a White Wolf style roleplaying game where you can choose your feminist subculture from his list and… ah, dammit, I’ve taken that too far. Sorry.
Now embarrassingly enough, I have to go clean the flat and cook lasagne for my boyfriend coming over. I cannot wait to decipher what sort of feminist the OP reckons I am based on this! (but since I’m dating a bloke; ‘cafeteria’, right?)
In this country, you gotta make them marry you first. Then when you get the marriage, you get their money. Then when you get their money, then you get their children.
Feminist: Me, I want what’s coming to me.
Husband: Ok, well what’s coming to you?
Feminist: Your house, chico, and everything in it.
beshemoth: No, no, I think you’re onto it. We’ll call it, “Feminist: the Emasculation”. Let’s see, the usual breakdown is by fives, nowadays, with each getting special bennies. So we’d have Carousel-riding Sluts (gain bonuses to dissing Betas and socializing with Alphas), Money-chasing Whores (can use a man’s Resources as their own by sleeping with him), Dykes (destroy traditional marriages just by existing), Sperm-stealing Traps (can get pregnant simply by breathing the same air as a man) and Manginas (the only male Feminists, who gain Esteem by selling out Real Men to one of the other Feminist Clans).
And… now I need a shower, and a bucket of brain-bleach.
I bet this guy is divorced. Just because I can’t do calculus doesn’t make me want to burn the textbook.
RE: Ruby
I… actually would like to see a movie where it ends in a divorce, and that’s a GOOD thing. I mean, obviously no divorce is candy and rainbows, but still, I don’t think it’s eternal doom either, and I think for some people, it really would be a relief.
And it could end with the couple saying their friendly goodbyes and walking off into the sunset in their own separate directions, a bit sad maybe but on the whole triumphant!
Dammit, now I want it!
@shadow
Make sure you marry a nonfemimist, chico. That way when you get sick of her you van just sell her to another man.
Dudes, if you’re really really concerned about this, make sure to only marry women whose income is higher than yours. Problem solved. She’ll pay alimony to you when you divorce!
…seriously, have they not noticed that the guidelines for child and spousal support are determined by income and not gender? I don’t even with this argument. “In a heterosexual marriage, a husband often makes more money than his wife! Which means he may (often as a voluntary choice) pay her spousal support in the event of a divorce! HOW UNFAIR, CLEARLY THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH FEMINISM. IN OPPOSITE LAND, I MEAN.”
He knows you don’t have to get married, right? I mean, the default condition is “not married.” You have to find someone and mutually agree to marriage and sign papers and stuff. It’s not like you just wake up and WHOA there’s a ring on your hand and half your stuff legally belongs to another person and HOW DID THIS HAPPEN.
I think the MRAs who think women are trying to entrap them in marriage need to get together with the MRAs who think women won’t give non-Brad-Pitts the time of day and talk over their respective beliefs a bit.
While the couple in “The Break-Up” aren’t ever married, that was, in fact, pretty much precisely how it ended. It was genuinely shocking to me, since I’d spent the whole movie assuming that they would obviously get back together in the end, because, you know, mainstream Hollywood movie. But no! They do, in fact, end up breaking up for good! And they’re both okay with it and move on with their lives and are friendly to each other! It was largely a pretty lousy movie (I only watched it because it was on TV and I had nothing better to do), but that bit was kind of cool.
You know, feminism is really slacking off. I keep hearing from MRAs about all our evil plans, but when I go to feminist sites, there’s no mention of these plans. Clearly feminists have a problem with their communication skills, maybe we should hire a MANLY MAN to do it for us.
Myoo – These are the things feminists secretly believe. It’s a secret so we never say it in public. But all the closed forums and private meetings are absolutely full of “keep talking about equal pay and reproductive rights to distract them from our evil divorcey mission!” strategizing.
I’d forgotten about the marriage strike. How’s that going?
LBT:
Paris, je t’aime? Definitely, Maybe? I’m going by here
@Fembot
Sorry, should have made it clearer. I was just plugging in some MRA paranoia into classic Scarface quotes, because the title of the post made me think of the movie.
I’m sorry Shadow