Paul Elam, head ranter at A Voice for Men, has a new video out called “You want privilege? You got it!” The thesis: if women really did have the so-called privileges that men have, they’d hate it and want men to take them all back. Because all of these so-called privileges are really giant burdens. Or, as Elam puts it, somewhat more melodramatically, these privileges have “begun to more resemble an anchor around your neck than the helm of a great ship that everyone tells you that you are captaining.”
Here’s the video.
Well, all right, that’s not really Paul Elam. But that little clip does capture pretty well the tone of his latest post, which is indeed about how male privilege is really a terrible burden.
I mean, this is his opener:
I swear by everything holy that the next time I hear some fembot caterwaul about “male privilege,” I am going to find something to break, turn it into shards, and drag the broken pieces across my chest just to distract me from the pain of their increasing stupidity. Just picture me like Martin Sheen, collapsed in a heap of bloody, tearful insanity on the floor of a cheap hotel in Saigon.
Heck, compared to that, Mr. McDuck’s reaction to the news about his “ice cream” was, if anything, rather restrained.
The rest of Elam’s post is, as is typical for him, a rather trite recitation of a number of standard Men’s Rights talking points about male “disposability” written in some of the most ridiculously overblown prose ever seen outside of an Ayn Rand novel.
Elam complains that he hasn’t seen much benefit from his privileges:
Mind you I still don’t know what that privilege is. One time when I was young and very poor I was late on my light bill. I showed the electric company my balls, but they cut my power off anyway. …
Yeah, as someone who’s also had his power cut off, I’m pretty sure they do that with everyone. I’m also pretty sure that no feminist has ever or will ever argue that male privilege means you won’t get your power cut off for nonpayment.
Here’s Elam addressing women as if they’ve traded place with men:
With your privilege comes the right to work on crab boats, drive trucks, work on electric lines, walk into burning buildings and sink into the bowels of the earth digging out coal and other things people find useful.
Apparently having greater occupational choices is scary and bad.
When a ship goes down, or any other life threatening disaster strikes, you have two choices. Be a real woman and die, or treat your life like it has value and have the world shit on you as a coward who refused to perish on cue. There is also the possibility of third option, either die from the disaster so that men can live, or have another woman blow a fucking hole in your face with a pistol because you tried to save yourself.
Yeah, I believe we may have addressed this earlier. Oh, but there’s more:
Like noticing the emperor has no clothes, it may hit you one day when you decide not to offer your seat to a man; when the stares at you from all around seem to come down people’s noses. …
You must learn not to say a word. Not to anyone else, not even to yourself. You must learn to see flames, coal dust, icy saltwater, death and sacrifice for the trappings of power that the world around you thinks them to be.
Says a dude typing out his manifestos on an expensive laptop he conned nagged his followers into buying for him.
And you must be willing to hang your head in shame over that power, even as the world chews you up, spits you out, and gets ready to take its turn with your daughter.
Elam’s rousing conclusion:
So, that is it, ladies. You want my privilege, it is yours. I will gladly hand it over to you this very minute. I am just waiting for you to meet the pre-requisites of disposibilty and an utter lack of self-value. I am waiting for you to woman up to the job, take off your fucking make up and be ready to bleed, blah blah blah look at me I’m mad!
I paraphrased a little at the end there. But, yes, the world champion at seeing male “disposability” everywhere did in fact misspell the word “disposability.” That was all him. And so, believe it or not, is the following:
I, like a Jew gone weary of being called a chosen one, am completely ready for anyone else, and in particular, you, to be chosen.
Personally, I have had about all the privilege I can stand.
Yep. He went there.
Also, I don’t know if you all knew this, but when women serve in the military these days it’s “like a day care camp for them.”
Also, not to pat myself on the back or anything, but my headline is much better than his. Maybe he should get me to write all the headlines on A Voice for Angry Duck Plutocrats Men.
Discuss.
@EEB, I wish you could leave that comment about birth control stuck at the top of every comments section on the internet that even touches upon the subject.
And for every guy who complains that they don’t get free condoms so blah blah blah,
1. Planned Parenthood will give those to everyone. They’re just there for the taking to PREVENT babies and STDS. They aren’t gonna kick you out because you’re a guy. And so when people attack Planned Parenthood, they’re also attacking your access if you’d dust the cobwebs out of your brains and head over there for some.
2. I would fully support condoms under health insurance. I support anything that gives people more power, more easily, over their sex lives. That argument only matters if people are opposing your access, which I have yet to see a feminist do.
No no no, feminism is all about tricking men in to child support, didn’t you know that? You’re obviously not taking the right women’s studies classes.
I get where you’re going with this but he treats these things like they’re male-only problems. As if I have never worried about paying a bill just because I’m a woman and my “vagina money” covers all that shit. Plenty of women hold dangerous jobs as well that they got stuck with due to a lack of options. But he wants to act as though all/most men are forced to this type of work just because they’re guys. Most men have pretty reasonable expectations of safety in the work place. I mean, if he is concerned about the danger of these jobs he needs to speak out about finding safer ways to do them, not complain that the evil feminists are forcing men into jobs that are dangerous. That’s the shitty economy doing that. And now that women CAN joing the military some are. Women face just as much financial turmoil that leads them into a life that endangers them. This is a class issue, not a gender issue.
YES
I always laugh when this happens:
1. Guy says douchey thing
2. I explain why thing is douchey
3. Guy condescendingly accuses me of hating men (usually adding in a pet name like “sweetie”)
I don’t hate men. I hate dealing with douchey people. It’s sick how they twist my protests against their douchiness as “hating men.” Last time I checked, I don’t hate any of my male friends. (Though of course MRAs would suggest these men are “manginas” and are head-nodding what I say so they can sleep with me and “win.” Not a one of them has ever nailed me, thanks.)
My male friends stay my friends mostly because they fully understand how to just be people, treat me like I’m also just a person, and do everything they can to not exploit their privilege. They can’t help that they’re privileged for being male in most important areas of life, just like I can’t help that I’m privileged for being white. What a person does in this situation is recognize that privilege exists, understand what keeps it there, and do the best possible job to not support the status quo that makes the world unequal. For anyone.
As for Mr. “I don’t understand why people think I’m privileged because I totally can’t see it” Elam: EXACTLY. It’s invisible to you because you’ve always benefited from it. And all the ranting you’ve done regarding the burden of the man in our society? IT’S WHY THE PATRIARCHY IS BAD FOR MEN TOO. We know that. Feminism is not women against men, wanting to be better than men, wanting to steal their privilege for ourselves. Feminism is about LOOKING AT THE INEQUALITIES and TRYING TO MAKE THEM GO AWAY. We don’t want the world to be unequal in the ways that it punishes you (or that you perceive that it punishes you) either.
Also, AntZ? “The new Obamacare institutions directly discriminate against men”? Which you support by mentioning that departments for women’s health care exist, as if that fact makes an anti-male sentiment self-evident? The existence of a GENDER-based research program is interpreted as FOR WOMEN? Male is a gender, you know. Assuming that the word “gender” refers to “women’s issues” is suggesting that male is the default. Which is a problem because anything that actually is for women only is treated like it’s withheld from men, when the only reason that’s going to be true is when men physically don’t have the body parts to get treated for those specific issues. The fact that there is no “women’s prostate cancer” organization is not misogynistic, so all the fields of study and programs that treat and nurture ladyparts are not out to punish you.
“Asking for citations is a feminist trade-mark.” Last time I checked it’s the way people suggest that they didn’t just shit an idea out of their heads. It’s your own fault if you do that and people complain that it stinks.
Elam said:
David said:
So if a man is coerced into choosing a high-paying job over his health and lifestyle, he actually is enjoying his greater occupational choices. It seems a man can get a bayonet through his chest and David will still find some roundabout way to paint that as privilege.
That being said, I do appreciate you having the courage to allow dissenting views on your site, David. That openness is common in the antifeminist, but quite rare in the prickly feminist.
The feminists may now scream about how smart they are and how dumb everyone else is. It’s on a little blog, it’s just a little game.
Oh look, its Cant Fact Finder
*YAWN*
Yeah. “I can choose to work a dangerous, well-paid job or a safe minimum wage job” is one more choice than “I can work a safe minimum wage job.”
If a woman is from the same area and socioeconomic stratum as a man who’s working in a coal mine (firefighting, electric line repair, and crab fishing are all really good jobs that I’d love to have so I’m not including them here), then she’s not working a cushy office job herself, you know? She’s probably waitressing or something similar, and if she could choose whether to be a waitress or work in the mines, it wouldn’t be great options but it would be one more option than she has now.
(This is of course in the alternate universe where women don’t work in coal mines, while in our universe, they do. So it’s all sort of a moot point.)
Hi Factless: Can you explain how exactly men are coerced into, say, going into fishing or logging? Is it a different kind of coercion than women experience to go their jobs, or are women entirely free of coercion of any kind in the job market? So curious to hear your no doubt interesting theories.
Seriously, someone who thinks “firefighter” is a painful job that men hate being coerced into is so disconnected from reality I can’t even.
Firefighter hiring (in areas that use professionals rather than volunteers) is ridiculously competitive because it’s a glamorous job with tons of loaf time and high pay and government benefits. Guys don’t tearfully sign up at the firehouse to keep the debt collectors at bay, they volunteer and train and schmooze to get in because it’s a great goddamn job.
Crab fishing is dangerous and extremely difficult, but it’s also a ton of money for a few weeks’ work. Living in Seattle, I knew a lot of guys who went up to Alaska to work in the crab season, not because they were coerced out of desperation, but because if your boat does well you’ll earn enough to buy a nice car in less than a month. (And most of them did buy cars and fancy TVs and such when they got back, regardless of whether they were supporting a kid or not.)
Poor men, having the option to do that.
Fishing (maybe not crab fishing) is the most dangerous job in the U.S.:
I’m just trying to figure out how that coercion works, and how feminism is to blame for it.
Ah Cliff, is that median wage misleading because it’s seasonal? I got it from CNN, maybe not the most reliable/thorough source.
(Oy, now I’m posting too much, but anyway.)
The sad thing is, this idea of industrial or extraction jobs as the jobs of desperation is largely a thing of the past in the US. These days, the shit jobs that you take when you’re behind on your child support are much more likely to be some variety of customer service.
The idea of a guy taking a factory or fishing job out of sad desperation is almost charming lately. Those are good jobs and there aren’t nearly enough of them. “Sad desperation” is when you sign up to wear a silly vest and try to get everyone who checks out at your lane to go for the Extended Warranty.
Cloudiah – I don’t know about fishing overall, just Alaskan crab fishing, because those were guys I knew personally.
The Alaskan crab fishing is stupid dangerous, those guys absolutely get injured all the time because they’re out on rough seas working heavy equipment on about an hour of sleep. But they only do it for a few days or weeks at a time, and then they come home with up to $50-100K if their boat does well.
(source: http://www.businessweek.com/careers/content/sep2006/ca20060914_736742.htm)
Pervocracy:
The fact that there are volunteers is revelatory. People aren’t doing it for free because it’s so awful or the only other option is to starve in the streets. If the only draw of firefighting were the paycheck, no one would do it without one.
And the silly-vest jobs don’t seem so sad because they’re indoors and relatively safe, and the damage to your health is slow and invisible. But I suspect there’s some circular reasoning going on: it’s not a shitty job, because if it were, women wouldn’t deign to do it.
You’re not posting too much unless all 10 Recent Comments are you! (Is my theory.)
I wonder how women are coerced into fishing, when they are. Or do women choose it freely, and only men are coerced?
Of course, it is true that men (and women) (and children) are coerced into working, but somehow I don’t expect that is what Factless is talking about. Not just adults, but children too. So what makes men’s coercion special?
Hershele – Volunteer firefighters do get paid. But they get paid much less and often they get paid per-call so it’s unpredictable.
Which doesn’t really change the situation–that people are doing it because they find firefighting fun and glamorous and fulfilling, not because they’re desperate to make their next child support check–but FYI.
…And by the way I know this because a very close female friend is a volunteer firefighter.
RE: Pervocracy
$50-$100K? Holy crabcake, that’s like, 4-10 years of my wages! And this is the best job I’ve ever had. (The only injuries I’ve gotten are papercuts. DID narrowly miss getting crushed by a very large, very heavy filing cabinet though. Thank god for that; that thing would’ve caused some major damage.)
Also, I’ve worked some grimy agricultural like jobs before. Weeding, working with cows (shit EVERYWHERE), scrubbing toilets. I have to say, horrible as the toilet scrubbing was, it was a way different kind of misery than the customer service jobs I’ve also worked. Like, sure, scrubbing shit isn’t fun, but at least I’m not being screamed at by people for things I have no control over and forced to smile all the time. The toilets and the cows don’t care about the look on my face!
If things went bad, I’d do menial cleaning before I did fast food stuff again.
My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. I ought to ask him if he feels oppressed by there being more male firefighters than female ones. I’m pretty sure he’d just laugh at the question, though. He volunteered because he likes helping people, and it was not a choice made due to coercion. MRA’s live in a different reality than the rest of the world.
I grew up in Fort McMurray, home of the dirty, dirty tarsand mines, and worked at one of the mines for 10 years. All of my siblings still work for mines. About half of the haul truck drivers in all of the mines are women. I don’t know the exact percentage, but huge number of the engineers, chemists, technicians, and technologists are women. There are lots of female welders, electricians, heavy equipment technicians, blasters, and trades of every kind. It’s really no big deal. EXCEPT when these lady workers get a new (male) co-worker or supervisor from somewhere else.
My SIL has been an electrician for over 30 years, and the last 10 she’s been dual-ticketed as an instrumentation mechanic. She has a lot of industrial experience, and by all reports, she very good at what she does. A couple of years ago, her company hired a new supervisor for her shift from a less-economically-blessed area of Canada, and he Did Not Approve of uppity bitches thinking they could work alongside the menzzz. He was so insulting and condescending she quit a couple of months later. Not so she could sit around eating bon bons; she took one of the couple of job offers she gets every other month.
Most of the women who encounter sexist bullshit on the job (which happens much less these days than 20 or 30 years ago) seem to be getting it from men who are from someplace else. Local guys grew up knowing women can and do excel in any field that exists in the oilsand industry, because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers have all done it. Anyone who wants to parrot misogynist bullshit has to pretty much own the misogyny and be blatant about it. Stupid arguments like Elam’s just fall apart as soon as they’re spoken, and everyone in my hometown knows it. Except the assholes who come from elsewhere, where women are edged out of good-paying jobs to make way for the men who are “supporting families”.
Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony. Additionally, governmental social organizations frequently favor women, especially single mothers, and will tax individuals and corporations to provide those handouts. These governmental social organizations are frequently endorsed by feminist organizations, and many feminists will rush to the organizations’ defense during more austere times. In order to obtain a given standard of living or financial security, men will have to earn more money and hence take on jobs they normally would not.
Now, I am all for social investment, but I want investment, not money that people can spend however. If a man pays child support, put some of that into a fund so it actually goes to the kid, etc.
As I said before, little brother is a volunteer firefighter, and dying to be a full-time one. The volunteers of the village all put together the money they earn each time, plus the money from the calendars, to buy things like nice vacations on a sunny beach. They can afford it, because they all have a day job, except for the young ones, who live at their parents’. That’s how much they don’t need the money.
On a related note, I will refrain to mention to him that there are adventurous (aka dangerous) jobs in which you can earn 50K in a few weeks of summer work, or he’ll be in Alaska before we have the time to say “be careful”. (he doesn’t do fire-fighter for the money, though he’d like to live on it, but video games don’t buy themselves ^^)
1. Feminism invents the fact that children need money to survive.
???
3. Men are forced to become firefighters despite their weeping objections.
@swankivy
“They can’t help that they’re privileged for being male in most important areas of life, just like I can’t help that I’m privileged for being white.”
Perhaps you could rattle off a few of these male privileges.
Are there quota’s for employment for men dictated by the State?
How about men only scholarships?
Men friendly spaces in the workplace?
Do men have any reproductive rights?
Maybe business start up funding for men only?
An all mens lawyers association?
How about white privilege?
White quota’s?
White business opportunities?
White scholarships?
Apparently our defintion of privilege differs.
————-
“IT’S WHY THE PATRIARCHY IS BAD FOR MEN TOO.”
Ahhh the patriarchy conspiracy. A personal favorite which seems to always consist of women recieving entitlements above men. To which the response is, if men treated women equally, women wouldn’t be getting all those State, Charity and Corporate yum yums. It is therefore mens fault that women recieve more in every realm of society, due to men not treating women equally. Women are blameless for recieving more of everything.
Is that why every womens group and the media pretty much calls everything this election the war on women? Someone on here said the massive slush fund called VAWA was reauthorized. More patriarchy, apparently. Since women were already equally protected under law, VAWA is way extra. Why’d all the gals lobby so vigorously for VAWA?
VAWA is the epitome of patriarchal thinking. Women are physically, emotionally and intellectually less than men, they therefore need extra protection for being so weak of mind and body. That is what women wanted. You are less by your own admission. So any patriarchy that exists, is because women demand more patriarchy. Women are 100% to blame. Patriarchy hurts only men and women demand more of it at all State, Corporate and Social levels. Women just adore their State run patriarchy. Women’s law.
@ideologuereview: “Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony.”
No, feminism is designed to address incongruities that are unfairly sex-based. The perception that this requires “taking from men to give to women” suggests that the men are entitled to having more resources. In other words, if making things equal results in a feeling that something has been unfairly taken from you, you thought you deserved to have more in the first place just on the basis of who and what you are.
Obviously there are specific cases in which a man has something taken from him to give it to a woman, like in alimony. (But alimony = the dependent party getting resources from the breadwinning party, so in cases of the woman making more, it does indeed go the opposite way.) That is not what is happening when women are given *equal* access or treated as though they are *equal* under the law. Feminism is not about redistribution of wealth or trying to make women entitled to men’s resources when they didn’t earn them. It is about giving equal access. That’s it.
It’s common for people who are sexist to be unable to see equality as just. For instance, in a discussion that happened at a college, students were polled on how they feel about women changing their names to the man’s surname after marriage. “Would you be opposed to marrying a woman who wanted to keep her name?” One young man answered that yes, he would be opposed to that. When asked why, he replied, “Because if she kept her name, then everyone would know who REALLY was in charge in THAT relationship.”
In other words, if they’re both exactly equal, it’s perceived as unequal. If a woman doesn’t lose part of herself, submit, blend her identity into the man’s, it’s not “as it’s supposed to be.” Despite being equal, the woman is being seen as in charge–in a way that is unbecoming or appalling. This guy actually saw it as an inequality when the man and the woman both keep their names in the marriage. If equality looks to you like male subjugation just because he is denied his “right” to “be in charge,” you don’t have to look any farther to see where the problem is.