Over on Buzzzfeed, a couple of interesting pieces on the fine art of online pickup artistry.
Kelly Bourdet looks at some of the online PUA gurus and their teachings, noting that
Online pick-up artistry has taken the original aims of IRL pick-up — to develop general tactics and techniques for attracting and bedding women— one step further. One dehumanizing step further. Now, instead of “peacocking” (wearing gaudy outfits to demonstrate Alpha status) in bars and using tired negs, we have them deconstructing every aspect of online persona and communication to create sleek, marketing packages of human beings to sell to one another.
In an even more entertaining companion piece, Ouiser Boudreaux (AKA the Annals of Online Dating gal) reports on some of the actual terrible things these online PUAs write to women in an attempt to “neg” them into their IRL beds. Like “nice headband, bitch,” or “Lol, you look like a space commando.” Or this little passive-aggressive masterpiece:
You nearly have a perfect lack of grace. What happens when you realize only the also ran hotties slum it in brooklyn? Somebody who says they’re not good at being surface and rattles off a list of authors read mostly in high school english classes is nothing but surface. Your profile is among the most trite and cliche i’ve come across. which is a compliment of sorts, though keep in mind, you’re not in kansas anymore. You know who else won’t deal with a narcissist? just look in the mirror to find the answer: another narcissist.
None of these worked, in case you’re wondering.
Oh wow. So he knows your mind based on not reading your profile beyond the picture and the little sexual orientation box. Its not even up for debate that he skimmed your interests, not even to look for a music group or book you like in common. To go on about what he wants to do in bed, that involves very mild kink? To someone who makes NO MENTION of being so much as interested in it? To a straight up asexual is just…is there even a word for that?
And he understands human needs, yep uh huh. Like air or potable water or that he wants sex! I guess being listened to and understood or even recognized as something other than the two dimensional film he’s playing in his head is what? Only a need for more highly evolved beings like Taelons?
And apparently, if being asexual or only wanting new friends is what you’re looking for that just means you’re low maintenance! The holy grail of people who have zero interest in getting to know you at all! Even your name, very likely. And if he’s still on the bisexual thing you’re kinky and obviously spreading yourself around so you won’t miss him!! And avant guard and daring by being who you are!! And he’s really hoping you like bondage!eleventy!! Think of all the things you can do with him in bed!
“And want a piece of you”? Did you mention icing on the cake and now he thinks your a black forest cake confection?
And of course you have so much of his anger. You turned down a really good catch, you cruel heartless woman you. What’s creepy about all of this is that you’re a part of him now…because he wants a piece of you. Which you denied. Which means you must be angry because there is no separation between his desires and emotions because he’s thinking about what he wants to do to (oh the endless possibilities….)you which is the only thing making you remotely real to him. Ick.
Yeah, he’s not so much insulting (and there’s plenty of that) as disturbing.
You know, when I wrote my profile, I was also reading the Heartless Bitches International site. Good for helping with reading between the lines in missives sent by men you don’t want to date. Also good for ensuring there’s enough brimstone in the profile to deter all but the most determined sleezebags.
And somehow, despite saying things that would make me look like a demanding and heartless taskmistress, I never had even one guy upfront proposition me about bondage or domination. You must be really lucky!! How do you do it?
“In response to your comments, yeah, that’s adorable. You insinuate that I’m not “a nice person” and sarcastically call me “such a charmer” because I didn’t nod and smile and be kind to someone who engaged me in an abusive, disgusting manner. I understand that some people think my job is to be submissive and never make men feel bad about their approach (no matter how egregious it is)–because really, if they abuse me and attack me as an opener, I should really be the bigger person and let them down gently. We should be well-behaved when attacked, or else it’s really our fault that it happened!”
Of course, of course. And if somebody tries to pick your pocket on the street, you should immediately and gleefully shoot him in the head! I mean, how can anyone hold that against you? What were you supposed to do, just stand there and let them get away? All you did was legitimately protect yourself from a criminal!
Laughable strawmanning aside, I’m not even sure why you’d reject that guy. You sound like a good match for each other, what with both of you being wordy pretentious narcissists. No, that’s not a neg either.
See, normal people would just laugh these weirdos off, but you and a few other commenters here sound like you have some genuine anger and issues of your own. You probably look forward to receiving these socially inept messages so you can tear into them and feel better about yourselves.
Upon further reading, I see that you’re “asexual” and pillowinhell is into BDSM. Why am I not surprised.
Don’t bother replying (or circlejerk amongst yourselves if you must), I won’t be coming back here.
Please stick that flounce, you’re boring as shit.
Amon,
“And if somebody tries to pick your pocket on the street, you should immediately and gleefully shoot him in the head!”
Yep! ‘Cause mocking a guy who thought it was a good idea to open with these kinds of attacks is just like murdering someone. This is really about my anger. If someone approaches me civilly and talks to me like a person, they don’t get mocked. They get treated like civil people treat each other.
“I’m not even sure why you’d reject that guy. You sound like a good match for each other, what with both of you being wordy pretentious narcissists.”
And you’re a great judge of character! I always love it when people who are threatened by “words” try to make other people feel ashamed of it. You do realize this is the equivalent of mocking someone for being a nerd in high school, right?
“See, normal people would just laugh these weirdos off, but you and a few other commenters here sound like you have some genuine anger and issues of your own.”
LOL “normal people.” Happy to hear you get to define what the proper response is. Oh no, now I have to desperately clamor to make assholes on the Internet think I’m NORMAL! Or you could just get over the fact that no one needs your approval.
“Upon further reading, I see that you’re ‘asexual’ and pillowinhell is into BDSM.”
More LOL. Invoking my orientation and putting scare quotes around it? I’m gonna assume you don’t know what asexuality is, considering you’re trying to use it as (again) something I’m supposed to be ashamed of or something that marks me as flawed . . . maybe you think it reveals something sick about me. Well, maybe one day you’ll educate yourself. Considering the way you talk here, though, that’s not likely.
“I won’t be coming back here.”
You’ll be missed!
Oops, I typoed “Amog” as “Amon.” Which he’ll surely never see since he’s NOT COMING BACK EVER OMG.
@pillowhell – Yeah, you’ve got the guy down. I actually think I hate the pseudo-intellectual dickweeds more than the outright trolls and neg nerds. Oh, they try so hard to make themselves look so in touch, so in control, so *appealing*. Personally, I thought the most disturbing part of it was how he kept telling me what I’m attracted to – what I surely have been though “as a woman” and how he is going to meet my needs. All these assumptions about how I’m a “free-spirited woman” and how he’s pretending (soooo hard) to understand what I’m all about, being so independent and all.
I get a lot of form letters. They’re really insulting. These dudes honestly think we can’t tell this message is generic.
Oh yes Amog, knowing about BDSM totally makes me into it! I also know about NASA so clearly I’m an astronaut too!
So we’ve found the formula to get at least one reading comprehension fail to understand you’re asexual swankivy. You just need to mention it a dozen more times.
Aw shucks, and he was such a pleasant asshole too.
stick to the flounce douchebag
Amog: Don’t bother replying (or circlejerk amongst yourselves if you must), I won’t be coming back here.
Of course you won’t dearie, nor will you stop in to take a look.
Laughable strawmanning aside,
Well, no, it was the pretty much all of your post, you didn’t make it an aside at all. Someone who is intentionally rude, or who chooses to intentionally disregard someone’s written description of what they are looking for; and is dealt with assertively, even rudely, is far from someone shooting another in the head for petty theft.
The one is a commensurate response. That it might mean you can’t do such a thing without risk to your feelings, bothers me not a whit.
See, normal people would just laugh these weirdos off
And decent people wouldn’t try to imply that being offended by entitled jerks, and refusing to let them continue in their obnoxious ways; withough check or hindrance, was abnormal.
Reasonable people wouldn’t pretend they could give a psychological diagnosis over the internet, much less accuse those who disagree with them of being pathetic losers who get of on abuse so they can feel superior.
Intelligent one’s wouldn’t follow that with a flounce proclaiming how superior they were in the act of “tearing into people.” But if it makes you feel better to not have to read the responses, that’s your perogative.
I’ve been lucky enough that most of my OKC interactions have been more on the boring to pleasant end of things, rather than unpleasant to downright scary, though the few that have been reminiscent of PUAs or MRAs in training have mostly just been hilarious. Like the dude who was fun at first, I chatted with a few times and we decided to meet for coffee, but I told him I’d have to get back to him on the date. Two days later he freaked out on me saying if I wasn’t interested I should just tell him and he didn’t want to date someone so flighty anyway. My response was “wow, we were dating? Why wasn’t I informed? Well, at least now I know we’re broken up, because yeah, this is not happening. Pro tip: if you think someone isn’t into you, timing their responses and then freaking out on them when they aren’t responding fast enough to stroke your ego is a surefire way to really make them not into you.” I’m not someone who automatically counts someone with a lower self esteem out because I’m not always totally cool with myself either, but yelling at me when we haven’t even met IRL yet sets off MAJOR alarm bells.
The dude who basically told me my interest in social justice issues was garbage because most people in the world were too stupid therefore nothing could ever be equal because, stupid people, was promptly ignored. I’m not sure if he thought he could impress me with his brilliant logic (I’m assuming at least that he didn’t consider himself one of the stupid) or if he thought that passive aggressively insulting me by saying the things I care about are stupid would make me want to fuck him but I didn’t really feel like finding out.
I have yet to figure out what to do with the guys who ask me “what do you go for in guys?” Usually, that’s in a message full of a bunch of other questions, so I’ve done well with ignoring that question and focusing on the other ones. But it’s something that unnerves me. I mean, why ask that? If you ask me that and I tell you, don’t you sorta think the cat’s outta the bag that you’re just trying to conform to what you think I want to get me into bed, rather than, I dunno, just being yourself and seeing if we hit it off?
My experience with OKC is that I get contacts from cis women and trans men when they have in the 80s-90s% match (sometimes high 70s%) with very low enemy score, while cis guys who try to contact me are okay with 30-60% match and 20+% enemy (no samples for trans women yet). And they often obviously haven’t read my profile at all.
I mean, I can understand the male entitlement dynamic when it comes to hetero cis men attempting to get with hetero cis women, but how do they think being an entitled tool who think only of their own self-gratification will work when they’re trying to get with another bi man?
Hey buddy, I’m as privileged as you are. So, hmm, NO! How bout YOU suck me off? 😛
(Okay so yeah, I try to not actually play the privilege card IRL as I’m working on my social justice stuff, but I find their approach hilarious.)
BlacBloc, wow I guess they figure that a thirty percent compatibility should buy them just enough time to get off after a half hour date?
To be fair, I’ve heard some real doozies from Beloved who also used internet dating sites. I asked him if women are just as messed up. Seems we are.
Maybe the fact my profile is filled up with references to me being bi, a geek, poly, interested in neither a LTR nor one-night deal, is filtering out the sort of messed up women that might otherwise contact me? Either because they’re biphobic, not into geeks, not into larger gentlemen, or are either in it for life or only interested in a fling without the hassle of FWB? I don’t know, I’m mercifully devoid of the woman types of awful in my inbox.
@pillowinhell- Yeah, part of me thinks that it’s another whole symptom of the “women aren’t really human/ all women behave THUSLY” syndrome. That is, if men see all women as behaving the same, then compatibility doesn’t really matter, because we’re all the same anyway, and you should just pick the prettiest one. *sighs*
Also? Chubby-chasers on the internet are a whole additional level of awesome (awful). Because they think they’re doing you a FAVOR by objectifying you and treating you like a hunk of meat. Because clearly fat ladies have no standards/ are just desperate for a scrap of attention amirite?
I think my all-time favorite “why should I read the profile, all that matters is your picture” exchange on a dating website was shared with me by a friend. (It is probably relevant to the story to mention that my friend is Chinese-American.)
Guy: Why, hello, gorgeous. I can tell we will be incredibly compatible! You are obviously sweet and deeply submissive, and will love yielding to my assertive and manly desires!
My friend: Dude, the FIRST SENTENCE of my profile is “I’m a domme.” You fail forever.
Guy: You shouldn’t present yourself as submissive if that’s not what you want!
My friend: ….again. First. Freaking. Sentence.
Guy: FUCK YOU, YOU FAT BITCH. YOU USED A SUBMISSIVE PICTURE!
(That is an actual direct quote. “You used a submissive picture!” has been a running joke among my friends ever since.)
I also love how the insult they always go to is “fat bitch.” As a representative of fat bitches everywhere, I take umbrage with you saying that like it’s a BAD thing.
Well geez, what was your friend thinking, putting up a picture that shows a Chinese person? We all know what Asian temperments are like right? / end snark and carefully washes hands after typing that.
Jesus, the things people come out with.
BlacBloc, yeah your preferences might be weeding out the jackass women. Beloved told me about several women who insisted on dating him, even after it was quickly established that he does not want more children. He’s very upfront about it. He ended up dating a woman for a couple months who thought he would change his mind. And some were just right out there. One thing I have heard from men is about the lack of response they get on dating sites.
Hey Cloudiah, the “university of man” dudes noticed your comment about them here:
http://universityofman.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/professor-ashur-is-a-fantastic-jackass/
Heh, yup. It’s extra funny given that the only thing this guy apparently bothered to look at was her picture, and the friend in question isn’t, in point of fact, fat, at least not by any remotely sane definition of “fat.” It’s weird enough when the idiots run around informing fat people that they’re fat like this will be a shocking revelation to them, but it’s pretty bizarre when they cannot think of any other attack to use on a woman who wears something in the range of a size 4.
@ Polliwog- Yeah, fat has basically become a synonym for “OMFGYOUAREAHORRIBLEUGLYUNDESIRABLEPERSON.” This is frustrating because:
1) When men call women fat, they are supposed to burst into tears, like the worst thing ever is not being attractive within VERY narrow parameters.
2) When my friends freak out when I describe myself as fat around them. It’s like “No, I didn’t say I was ugly or undesirable or not-awesome. I am attractive and desirable and awesome. Also fat.”
We should be able to talk about our bodies in ways that are honest and also nonjudgmental.
LOL! Yeah look! Our post got noticed and some woman noticed enough to call the professor a jackass!!
Well, at least now I know what rock Dalrock is hiding under.
Okay Jackasses, we noticed your blog. But quite frankly, we’ve heard your brand of drivel eleventy million times. Come up with something you haven’t riffed off two hundred other blogs.
Ha ha ha — my work here is done. Professor Jackass noticed I posted his link. My favorite comment:
Like anything he said is even worthy of debunking. It is BARELY worthy of mockery, and only on a slow news day. 🙂
cloudiah: I’m amused at the, preemptive, declaration of victory. That comment goes on I wouldnt have even worked out that she disagreed with you. But it seems that she does disagree, it just that she doesn’t know why, or else can’t explain it satisfactorily to her fellow boobs. Yes, with wits like that being present I’m sure that you would be in for a rough time indeed if you were to head on over…
So… we know he disagrees, but not why. On the other hand we can be certain that, were they do deign to grace us with their presence, we would be “devastated” by their logic.
So bravely they decide they will spare us the lash of reason.
Sounds like Professor Jackass is developing a bad case of “professor’s disease” – where he spends so much time lecturing to people whose grades he controls that he has no idea how to respond to people who don’t have to stay in his good graces.
@pillowinhell, a friend of mine (who is a decent guy, not a Nice Guy) was griping about lack of responses on OKC – “why can’t they just say no thanks? I would be fine with that.” We had to explain to him that those women he is messaging probably get a crapton of emails, and have found that if they reply with anything at all, even “no thanks”, they will immediately get back a FURTHER reply (from a guy they’ve clearly told they aren’t interested in), which means they have to a) continue the conversation (again – one they didn’t want) and/or b) will get harassed and yelled at for “leading him on” by, you know, continuing the conversation.
Well, Mythago I get the part you’ve explained. Generally, I just got a thank you for letting me know. But continued online harassment is a risk. Thankfully PoF has a block button. Perhaps I should have been clearer. Men put profiles up, and rarely get women who read them and contact the guy. So men are still stuck having to make the first approach. Why are women still so resistant to making the first approach? Volume of responses received? Fear of slut shaming? Rejection? Tradition? I mean, why wouldn’t a woman respond to an interesting profile. I’m sure most of us spend time looking through them.
Okay, rejection on an online site is something I have a hard time crediting. Perhaps because its a keyboard interaction and not face to face and in public.