So someone on Reddit posted a video showing time-lapse video of a girl from infanthood to 12 years old. Naturally, Redditors responded with creepy pedophilia jokes, and one Redditor (speaking for many, judging by the numerous upvotes) took the opportunity to complain about just how hard it is for dudes to not have sex with underage girls. Apparently these girls deliberately develop earlier than boys as part of an elaborate plot to entrap guys and send them to jail.
Thanks to ShitRedditSays for pointing me to this latest bit of egregious Redditry.
To be honest I can’t stand Pharyngula either and I don’t find it to be a safe space at all. About half of the commenters are huge fucking ableists about mental illness (this does seem to have gotten a little better lately though), P.Z. doesn’t always “get” non-feminist social justice stuff and often refuses to edit his posts after people criticize him (the thing that comes to mind is the time he entitled a post “Barbarous Uganda”), and if you aren’t a hugely assertive person who can take gang-piling and insults (which I am not) be prepared to not feel welcome there.
People there also aren’t always willing to back up their arguments with actual evidence despite defining themselves as skeptics and scientists. In my personal experience it’s often impossible to have anything resembling a complex or nuanced argument in the comments section.
For a while there was also a lot of humanities-bashing going on (particularly of philosophy) and I actually totally stopped reading it because I couldn’t tolerate the nonsense anymore. I read it now to keep up on atheist news but that’s about it; I refuse to engage with the comments.
The irony is most of Eurotrash’s complaint is tone trolling about Pharyngula… so I comprehend perfectly why he doesn’t feel comfortable hawking his low grade bullshit there. It is a rough and tumble blog so tone trolls are given no quarter; I’ve complained about PZ’s sexism before now (it was unintended, but intent ain’t magic) and was called a tone troll for my trouble. My reaction was not to troll other blogs crying for the waaaaaambulance or a rendition of “Hearts and Flowers” on the world’s smallest violin.
Kladle, the comments section is hugely variable, depending on whether or not a particular thread is trolled or derailed – which is often the effect you have here with MBz threads being visited by the obnoxious irregulars. The ableism you mention is a subject I have noticed gradually improving over time; similarly, acceptance of trans commenters has shifted noticeably over the time I’ve read the blog, especially now that FtB has a gifted trans blogger.
Lastly, you mention that “[p]eople there also aren’t always willing to back up their arguments with actual evidence” which I would heavily dispute – contrarily, it is often the religious zealots who are attracted like moths to candles who will present unevidenced claims and who don’t understand the idea of a null hypothesis. Usually all that can be done in a blog context is to cite research – which is unrewarding when 9 out of 10 trolls won’t read anything that’s put in front of them.
A real “safe space” should at least endeavor to make the discussion something approaching civil. What I’m getting at, is that it could easily be triggering, to any number of people. NOW UNDERSTAND, not everything actually needs to be a safe space (I hate that mentality, in fact) but the fact that you consider yourselves one is a fucking riot. I’m pretty sure you can be firm about your social justice crap without being giant dickheads. Actually, it’s not even that you’re dickheads, it’s progressed to the point that the place is just tedious to someone with a thick e-skin.
No, I didn’t feel like it. I’ll talk about what I damn well please, kthnx. Also, I do think the pervasive atheist assholism is a real problem. It seriously compromises the community. Pharyngula is not the only subcommunity guilty of this, obviously. It’s hilarious when you guys wonder why people choose pastors preaching forgiveness, mercy and civility over you charmers (again, I say this as an atheist).
u mad?
We’ve got an “illiterate”! I was waiting for that. Isn’t that classist, by the way?
Sure, I don’t give much of a fuck about your opinion either, so, great. Of course assholism is sometimes justified, sometimes not (it’s almost always ineffective). Depends on the situation, I’m not so foolish as to try to make a hard and fast rule.
Haha, you guys are never going to let “Dear Muslima” go, are you? I would imagine he’s got more important things to worry about than a bunch of butthurt internet people.
And I’m not Laden, whoever that is.
More tone trolling, yaaaaaaawn.
Actually, I’d class “illiterate” as ableist, perhaps you had some sort of issue paying attention in primary school.
Rutee thought you might be Greg Laden, seeing as you used one of his pet phrases. Laden chief claim to fame is his lucid writing about the Congo.
The “Dear Muslima” thing was just the latest in a series of Dawkins’ sexist faux pas, people are fallible you know.
And the “tone trolling” accusations are out in force!
Yeah, I guess I am a tone troll, in the sense that I think Pharyngula’s particular brand of assholery is obnoxious, tedious, and stifles real discussion with repetitive dogpiling and also leads to groupthink because people are afraid to toe the line on punishment of porcupine death fantasies. So sure. I’m a tone troll. More atheists should be tone trolls.
tone troll is a proud tone troll?
Why are you here even? Just to complain about Pharyngula?
Your miserably pathetic whining is telling in that you lack the fortitude to make this argument on Pharyngula itself, and are debased to the level of trolling other blogs to make your purulent whinging heard. You’re such a sad, trashy specimen there’s no way the Pharyngulites would keep their coats and fangs nice and sniny, eviscerating the likes of you.
In the sense that I do IN FACT think civility and tone policing have a place in public discourse, and that excessive assholism has real tangible consequences to the detriment of conversation (read: Pharyngula) and is also just annoying… yes I am. Color me radical.
Xanthe, that was okay, but you’re only one person. You need the Horde descending all at once to get the real effect.
Well this a David’s blog and he can do whatever he wants, He doesn’t mind people being “eeny meanies” aka being harsh to misogynist arses sooo why are you complaining again? Oh wait you are complaining about pharyngula here on manboobz for some reason…..
Hey why not go complain about pharyngula on fucking pharyngula instead of a random site which has weak ties to the site?!
or wait trolls aren’t suppose to make sense I suppose…
“Color me radical.”
You seem more beige than anything else.
Yeah, don’t worry, I’m done. Once the Pharyngulites start making those weird analogies to “chew toys” and “sharpening their claws” that they love for some reason, I know they’re about to go into full-on dickmode, and there’s no reason to stick around for that.
Can someone explain to me why this thread has become all about Pharyngula? Granted that thread drift is the norm here, but I’m not seeing what Eurotrash’s complaints about Blog A have to go with Blog B (ie, Manboobz).
To do with, not to go with. I tipe gud some day.
I have no idea what your problem is dude. I am not even a “pharyngulite” or whatever and I can see you are full of shit. Do yourself a favor and stick to the flounce.
Eurotrash was being persistent in justifying being a tone troll and defending the rights of white dudes to never, ever have any critique of them ever, unless it is couched in the most gentle ways possible.
Oh, not that shit again.
O the projection!
Nice try, but you came in here fussing about a totally different site because someone said swears about Dawkins. Gotta protect the old white dudes at all costs!
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t mention that one on the shit they are good at. I’ve actually never seen a near-perfect safe space, so I wasn’t aware that was one of the requisites. It’s… getting better, but it’s very much an uphill battle, on that particular point.
I remember that one. That’d be because he disagreed (I was pretty furious with that m’self). It took forever and a day to get him to acknowledge that the situation in Denmark (as with many other European spots) was also not as simple as “ZOMG SOME MUSLIMS WERE VIOLENT”, also.
*Blinks*
You do realize ‘always’ would mean “every single yahoo who thinks evolution is abiogenesis would need every point explained in detail every time”, right? They generally are supported, particularly on novel arguments… but people dragging out tiresomely discreditted arguments don’t see everything refuted with full recitation of sources either. Skeptic or not, there’s only so much time and energy in the world.
That’s obviously not really mine.
…recently? That’s disappointing. Not really related to why I haven’t been paying attention to it recently, but disappointing.
Aware, hence “More seriously” afterwards. Greg Laden’s just who I associate that idiotic ‘circular firing squad’ phrase with.
Yes, that’s kind of the criticism, that you didn’t want to discuss misogyny, when it is not only the focus of this blog, but far, *FAR* more obviously in front of you than the meanie atheists, who had a sidelong mention at best. That you have derailed onto this is very much the crux of why I called you an asshat enabler; I sincerely doubt that it is only here, and now, that you complain and whine about tone over -ism.
To atheism only, in your own damn words. And you saw fit to drag it here, because…? It’s not like this is an atheist blog.
I don’t wonder.
A: I’m not particularly interested in conversion so much as people not supporting or spreading the more asshole beliefs, so this isn’t really a useful avenue of attack against me anyway.
A2: Secularism is rising in quite a few places, and it’s my primary concern.
B: People strongly tend towards what they grew up with.
Irritated, but not really mad. u capable of responding to the point at hand – that meanie atheists somehow draw your ire more than misogyny? To the point where you were willing to derail just for this?
I suspect this is partially because you are one of the many misogynist atheists, given your tepid nice guy-ism in one of the other threads. Protip: Do not intimate that you are not misogynist at all, it will only draw derisive laughter.
I imagine you’re used to it.
No, not really at all actually. You could make a stronger argument for ‘douchebag’ being sexist, I suppose, except I don’t really think it’s the case either.
I figured I pegged that about right. No, until he demonstrates that he is at least somewhat less misogynist than the average person, I am in fact not going to let that go.
Tsk tsk. See, the correct move here was, as Dawkins is rather uncontroversially in the ‘asshole confrontationalist’ camp, to push that almost-surprisingly appropriative little… shenanigan of his on the gnus, and to avow that it was stupid, and that it was a problem to atheism because it pushes away women, especially those from muslim backgrounds. You could have thrown that on the gnus… but that wasn’t the argument you wanted to make, because you don’t give a shit about women raised with a muslim background, nor do you care about inclusiveness in atheism; not really, anyway. And that is why you are thoroughly unqualified to talk about what a safe space may or may not be. And that is why I didn’t add
C: Atheism is a majority white dude movement
until just now.
I could. I elect not to be civil, because assholes like you don’t even deserve the explanation on why I am not civil. And there’s a lot of assholes like you.
I don’t think that someone who uses the phrase “social justice crap” is really in any position to be complaining about other people’s lack of manners, insensitivity, etc.
andddd he doesn’t stick to the flounce!
strike one!
Because Ruby has opted to pretend this thread didn’t happen, again.
Also, FTR, that I don’t consider the jackass’ opinion relevant does not mean that I ignored you, Kladle. I just didn’t really have a response beyond “A lot of folks do actually find plenty of relief there, including me”. It’s not good that people fuck up so regularly and obviously on ableism, and while I was there I tried to help at least a little tiny bit.
He did make a tepid nice guyism on one other thread, just once.
Is it really the latest major one? I haven’t been paying attention to him since then. Relative to his track record (He’s made a lot of sexist comments on pharyngula proper, actually!) that’s actually pretty good.
What the fuck are you talking about?