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Calling women names = human rights advocacy: A visit to A Voice for Men.

So the other day I was perusing the front page of the angry dude blog – sorry, “human rights organization” – A Voice for Men, looking for something inspiring to read. My eyes hit on a promo for a recent AVFM radio show. It was on the topic of feminism, and, apparently, women in general:

Flatworms, eh? You know, those “relatively simple bilaterian, unsegmented, soft-bodied invertebrate animals” without brains, with primitive eye spots that allow them to sense light?

As you know, human rights organizations are widely known for comparing large categories of humanity to primitive worms.

I am reminded of the inspiring words of Martin Luther King:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. And by the fact that they’re not slimy, dirt-eating worms, like all those damn white kids.

This is, of course, from King’s famous “I had a dream – a really weird dream, where all the white people were worms” speech.

Oh, perhaps JohnTheOther and GirlWritesWhat have some highly clever explanation for that whole “flatworm” thing, but in order to find out I would have to listen to their “radio” show. But life is short, it is a lovely, if a bit chilly, Saturday in April, and I would rather have ferrets chew the flesh off my bones while I am still alive than listen to an hour or more of those two, so I guess I will never know.

But no matter, because there was another post on A Voice for Men that caught my eye:

Yes, I said to myself, I will have to find out what Cooter Bee thinks about the differences between intellect and emotionalism. In the course of my day to day life, I often find myself pondering the deeper philosophical questions of human existence, and when I do, I always wonder: What does Cooter Bee think of that? It is rare that I actually get to learn what Cooter Bee thinks on a particular matter of philosophical import. So naturally I clicked on the link.

Here’s what I learned from the esteemed Professor Cooter Bee:

Endless citation, refutation of fallacy and Socratic pursuit of truth are the tools of reason. Men tend to understand them. Women, generally speaking, don’t because indignation, outrage and gut level distaste are rooted in emotionalism. Women do understand base emotionalism and do respond to it in a more predictable way than they could ever respond to reason. They are also more likely to respond appropriately because the message is more clearly understood. Emotionalism is their language.

So, really, there’s no point in actually arguing anything with those flighty ladies.

No need to waste words or knock yourself out reasoning with feminists or even your wife, for that matter, when a short and visceral pronouncement from on high will do and is more effective.

For example, you can just call them sluts:

Sluts are against slut shaming because sluttiness is, indeed, shameful. Say so. Your position would be unassailable because they too believe it. They invoke moral relativism and slut pride marches as a means to escape the inescapable.

Actually, it’s better if you call the ladies sluts over and over and over again:

Slut Walks, “Sex in the City” and the self esteem cult are all attempts to reassure women that even when they behave abominably that the bad behavior has the sanction of the collective and they face no risk of expulsion if they engage in it. To modify the behavior of women, reimpose that risk. The good news is that it can be done in relatively short order. … A stark and unvarnished remonstration from someone in closer proximity will undo the propaganda swiftly. Declarations of “that is disgusting” accumulate. Hearing it once may not overcome Cosmo and she can dismiss it as an isolated raving of a lunatic. If she were to hear it more often, however, she begins to doubt herself and wonder about her status within her more immediate collective.

You can also modify chick behavior by praising them when they act the way you like them to. It’s really quite simple:

Chick language provides us with a construct that we can use. To women something is “nice” or it is “mean”. They use that simple, emotionally based dichotomy because that is what chicks understand. They use it with us and they use it with each other. That is how they evaluate the world. Use it. …

Most women want to be good so tell them what good is in a way they can grasp easily.

What if they disagree with your assessment of what is good? Doesn’t matter, because you are a man, and therefore right:

Who is to decide what is good and what is evil? Simple. You are. Some men might think it arrogant to anoint themselves as the final arbiter of all moral issues. Not true. As a man, nature equipped you to make decisions based on merit alone without respect to consensus. … You know right and wrong when you see it.

Are there any good women out there? Yes, Cooter Bee tells us. Indeed, there are several women who contribute to AVFM, so there’s them. Beyond that, Dr. Bee, tells us,

I am of the belief that most women are good, if somewhat misled. They only resist righteousness because they think that any behavior that the collective endorses IS righteous. The rare woman who is capable of moral judgment will select good herself and would not be on the receiving end of harsh moral criticism.

Then again, you still might have to yell at the good women from time to time. Really, it’s your duty – it’s for her own good.

Good women are human too. Even in the seldom occurring event of a temporary moral lapse by a decent woman, your diatribe will be no more severe than the one she administers to herself. Would you do less in the case of a man whose judgment falters?

Thank you, Cooter Bee, for your insights!

I had no idea that going around telling women that they’re sluts was a form of human rights advocacy, but apparently it is. The next time I see a woman standing on the streetcorner trying to get me to sign a petition for Amnesty International, I will simply tell her what a dirty whore she is. I will accomplish more with these words than she will in a day of collecting signatures and donations!

NOTE: Since you bring it up all the time, fellas, you might try to remember that the name of the show is Sex AND the City. Also, it ceased production eight years ago.

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Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
12 years ago

Everyone, including the poor, should quit eating fast food. And junk food is not the only choice of food for the poor.

Is Junk Food Really Cheaper?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=all

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Ruby, the biggest source of junk food a poor person eats is the canned crap that we’re sent home with from the food bank. You know, the 99 cent stuff you wouldn’t dream of feeding your kids with. Yes, it means that the poor have a little more food. It also means that they have to eat three times as much to get the same nutrition in terms of fibre and mineral content. Either that or they are homeless and have no where to cook meals. Or they are in a cheap rat motel and are lucky to get a hot plate to heat some tea on.

Tell us Ruby, have you ever been dependant on food banks or welfare?

jumbofish
12 years ago

Now ruby is telling us to not eat fast food XD

andd we are back to the terrible sources backing up her argument.

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

I am really curious what good choices I made as an infant to grow up relatively well-to-do. Did I shit in my diaper the right way?

In my case, I think I really earned my privileged upbringing when the Baby Fairy came and asked me which person I wanted to be born to. “Ooh ooh,” I said, “that one! The white, able, well-off one with the committed partner, who planned this pregnancy and can afford to prevent any future pregnancies if she chooses!” Good job, baby me!

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Right along with the lack of lived experience and the whole argument zie was unable to defend the first time around.

BigMomma
12 years ago

and what about those food deserts?

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html

food desert? what…i…words fail me.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

Junk food is not cheaper. (Although it’s not so expensive that it’s the reason people are poor, come on now.) Junk food is fast and easy and satisfying when you don’t have time to shop and cook but don’t have money for a restaurant.

ozymandias42
12 years ago

There is a LOT of privilege in that article.

1) Sometimes people are tired when they get home from work and can’t do anything except veg out in front of the TV. Some people enjoy cooking; many people do not. For the people who don’t, it’s an extra chore that saps even more energy. And even poor people deserve to have fun sometimes.
1a) Don’t most people watch television WHILE they do something? Like clean, or do laundry? That’s not necessarily available time.
2) Gas is expensive. Not everyone can afford to drive to the far-away grocery store.
3) Regular meals of rice and beans may be cheap, but they also make a lot of people feel poor, and “not feeling poor” is a valid need.
4) You don’t order a fucking Big Mac, you order off the dollar menu. Christ.
5) Fresh produce goes bad quickly, which is basically wasted money that a lot of poor people can’t afford to waste.
6) Eating fast food makes some people happy. That is OKAY. It is okay to have small pleasures, even if you’re a poor person. You are not required to live like an ascetic just because you don’t have a lot of money.

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Big Momma, the closest grocery store to me that I can afford is a half hour unencumbered walk away. I carry my body weight in groceries home, and my nine year old carries half her body weight. This is in good weather, otherwise I shell out ten bucks in bus fare. After all, I have to teach her how to work under any condition without complaint right?

If I wanted to go to the food bank, its an hour and a half walk on my own. Unfortunately there would be far less food, but our food bank does includes a proper balance of fresh veggies and whole grains. I’m quite grateful I haven’t needed their help for some time, and for the fresh friuts and veggies.

Did I mention you can only use their service six times per year?

ozymandias42
12 years ago

Oh, I forgot 3a) Regular meals of rice and beans rapidly get very, very boring, and having diversity in what you eat is, in fact, a basic human dietary need.

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Ozy, bean burritos. You can’t go wrong with homemade bean burritos and your made from scratch fresh flatbread.

I must have a hundred different recipies on how to stretch meat a little further or make meals based on every type of bean there is.

Homemade Queso Blanco is awesome as a tofu substitute in some dishes. And you can use milk that’s slightly past its expiry date for it.

Bee
Bee
12 years ago

So, aside from all the other really great things that people are saying about the junk food argument … is Ruby saying that poor people would never need health care if they didn’t eat junk food? Or that they wouldn’t be poor if they didn’t eat junk food? Do rich people ever eat junk food?

Oh, also for the record, what David, Xanthe, and Happy all said were nuanced and thoughtful discussions on gender/sex and violence/aggression. What Ruby said was trollbait. That’s all.

BigMomma
12 years ago

@pillowinhell, that’s just bloody awful. i honestly have no words to describe how i feel about this for you.

i get very shitty when people start talking about how “poor” people just need to make “better” food choices.

one of my pet projects at work is to get a soup van up and running. i live in a very rural area with high poverty. i have already canvassed the local food outlets to get their donations. i would be able to drive about the local areas on certain days and give out free/low cost food and meals to ALL sectors of the local population. i reckon i can use the local college kitchens to make the food and am certain i can find volunteers to help me distribute it.

jumbofish
12 years ago

is Ruby saying that poor people would never need health care if they didn’t eat junk food? Or that they wouldn’t be poor if they didn’t eat junk food? Do rich people ever eat junk food?

We are left to wonder from her vague “proof” of something what exactly she is trying to say. XD

BigMomma
12 years ago

@pillowinhell, if you ever want to post some of those recipes, i am interested…i acknowledge i am in a financially safe position but i still try to shop wisely and meat is very expensive so i bulk it out with beans too to feed my family of 4.

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
12 years ago

When my brother and I were kids, our mom signed us up for free lunch at school. For a few years we got free lunch, yet during those summer months we never went hungry. So basically, we were mooching off the government. My brother, who is now in his forties, never bothers having a job when he can claim he’s depressed and get disability. You don’t think there are moochers among the poor? I’ve seen them first hand. And they hurt those who are truly in need. Shame.

ozymandias42
12 years ago

I think her proof is that there is no good reason for anyone to eat fast food so it you ever eat fast food you are a bad person.

ozymandias42
12 years ago

Pillow: I’d also be interested in the recipes. [/future broke writers of America]

…Or your brother could actually be depressed, Ruby. That happens.

BigMomma
12 years ago

@Ruby, what is your point? i am wary of debating this with you because it seems deliberately inflammatory i i am reading it correctly.

ozymandias42
12 years ago

Pillow: No obligation though if you don’t want to!

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

I see Ruby has no proposal on what to do about junk food and food deserts and ways to make healthier food a more viable option regardless of income.

Oh, right, the poors can just drop dead from all that bad decision making.

Ruby, you’re full of shit.

ozymandias42
12 years ago

I mean, am I going to say no one commits welfare/disability fraud? Of course not! But you have to consider the benefits and risks in hunting down the fraudsters vs. making access more difficult for people who actually need the services. And doubting whether people are depressed (assuming, of course, he didn’t say “I’m not depressed, but I’m getting disability for depression anyway! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!”) is really, really epic-level douche behavior.

…Also I am pretty sure you’re allowed to get free lunch as long as you make little enough money to qualify, so it isn’t fraud. It’s means-tested, it’s not like it’s based on I Swear I’m Poor Honest.

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

Ruby, do you think it’s EASY to get disability, and that it goes on and off like a tap? I’m not trying to discount your brother’s problems, but something in the milk ain’t clean with your story.

pillowinhell
12 years ago

That’s awesome Big Momma! Many people will be verey grateful for your effort.

A couple years ago. I ran a program designed for people like me that were struggling with how to porvide cheap nutruios meals on really tight budgets that would have plenty of variety. At the time, my daughter and I were living on eighty dollars a month for food. So part of my course wasd showing people how to plan their budget so that they could get a small stock pile of various foods. I showed them how to pre prep versatile meals and I collected stock pots and mason jars so that when fresh friuts and certain veggies were in season they could be preserved. I also contacted a local organization that provided tours of city friut trees, where you could pick your own and a program that drop off in season friuts and veggies in easily accessible drop points and the fees were far less than what you’d pay in a grocery store .

I still use those resources, but I’m fortunate enough to be able to provide meals with my own money, not food banks. Its a lot of work, essentially homesteading, and it was practical for families where there was space for storage and a couple people able to do the food gathering and prep. Or one really determined person, willing and able to make the energy sacrifice

jumbofish
12 years ago

My brother, who is now in his forties, never bothers having a job when he can claim he’s depressed and get disability. You don’t think there are moochers among the poor? I’ve seen them first hand. And they hurt those who are truly in need. Shame.

Oh so depression is not real and it doesn’t effect your ability to do work now? And people some people are “moochers” therefore all poor people are lazy? fuck off

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