Love is in the air! On The Spearhead, WF Price has penned a piece with the intriguing title: “What’s Wrong with Wanting to be Loved?” To that I would answer: nothing.
Let’s see what lovely sorts of things Price has to say about the subject:
[S]till we have people whining about “misogyny.” Young feminists whose most important concern is the ability to have sex entirely free of consequences, and who shamelessly raise their voices for the right to kill their children in the womb. Lesbian gender feminists who wreck families for profit and sex. Male feminists who boast about fathering children and shuffling their responsibilities onto some duped cuckold, and who malign their fellow men for a crack at college girls.
Huh. Not sure how exactly this bit of nastiness is supposed to advance the cause of love.
(Also, I think that last bit – the line about those “who malign their fellow men for a crack at college girls” – is supposed to be a reference to … me, and the talk I gave on Monday at Northwestern, to which he has added his own little fantasies, like he did in his original, highly fictionalized, post on the subject. The man is obsessed.)
In the comments, Spearhead readers offered their own thoughts on the topic of love.
Revver started things off with this lovely thought:
Having seen and heard a great majority of women, being “unloved” becomes lighter and lighter a burden with each passing year.
How easily they make themselves look like fools.
Opus spat forth an opus; here’s an edited version:
Women judge men by pre-selection.
If you have been dumped, then a member of Team Vagina has deemed you unworthy, so as in Snakes and Ladders you start from the bottom again. There is simply no point seeking female solace, because the woman will see that you do not seek her, and thus, offended, accuse you of unsolicited attention, or alternatively act offended that you are not interested in her. (I speak from experience). …
Women as we know are programmed to get over even the worst relationship in no more than three months, whereas for a man (even when in hindsight it was Xmas come early) we are often talking decades, for to be ditched is to take away all that it means to be a man (provider, nurturer). … Now, why am I betting that Futrelle did not mention these things last night – and why am I also betting he has not got one single phone number from any female at Northwestern Univeristy?
(You guys are really are obsessed. Aren’t you supposed to mention my weight as well?)
Greyghost managed to work the phrase “gina tingle” into his ramblings:
Men actually have the capacity to love. Only a man can write an article like that. Women just don’t have the capacity to love. Women gina tingle. …
The big lie was and is that a woman can love. Romance is what men do women receive it. …
The MRM with women on board on not will never ever change the nature of women. No matter how much awareness of the pain men and even children are in, women will vote and demand what is in therir childish perception of their interest. ( It will always be uninhibitted status and hypergamy)
In a later comment, he added these creepy afterthoughts:
Women do not and can not love the way you do and can. The best a man can get is some good emotional gina tingle. Never ever forget it. It can be a very emotionally pleasing and soothing time for a man but a man can never forget he is a man and right or wrong is a keeper of civilization.
The emotional trauma brought down on men when the realization of the lie hits [is] off the charts. It is where murders and suicides come from.
Georice81 offered up a rather elaborate excuse for slut-shaming:
My observation is that when women have been sexually promiscous their ability to submit and be very loyal to a single man is very diminished. … They can’t respect that one man that may actually love them since they are contemptous of a man that could love someone like them. Men in the 1950′s understood this and would not marry someone who was not a virgin since they did not trust those that were not.
We men can love and want to love. We also have a huge capacity to forgive. Modern western woman don’t seem to comprehend this because of their own hangups.
Binxton, for his part, seemed to be posting from an internet café on Gor:
Women are by nature emotional, self-centered creatures. Absent controls on their behavior, they lack both morals and objective principles. They are too easily manipulated by their environment to allow them to be free.
Ultimately, female emotional nature requires men to control women.
Women will love when they endure hardship and respect higher authority, i.e., patriarchy.
Western women must acknowledge a male-centered world where they can enjoy the labors of man only if, and when, they show due deference to male authority. Those who fail to do so must be disciplined and punished as examples.
Joe set forth some similarly, er, traditional notions:
Women are capable of love but there’s a reason St. Paul tells wives to “fear” their husbands. Because women are just much more like children in their moral reasoning and in their emotional “resilience” (or capacity for cruelty). So for a woman to love a husband is much like a child’s love for his parents. It is a love that is requires her to be in a dependent position. This is why marriage in a feminist society of independent and irreligious (I don’t mean women without superstition, but women without fear of moral judgment) women, cannot work.
I think I’ve had enough of The Spearhead’s notions of love. Let’s try ten hours of Haddaway instead:
Elodie that was brilliant and you just made me spray me tea everywhere!!
Honestly, the more I read of the MRM, the less it makes sense and the more garbled it gets.
Well, I was trying to figure out what the punctuation might be. Should it be Lesbian-gender feminists? Or Lesbian gender-feminists? Maybe “Lesbian-gender” is separate from existing gender definitions, and he just wants to be specific? Other feminists being not so awful as the lesbian-gender ones? Alternately, is a gender-feminist a thing I should recognize? And if yes, probably he would think they were ALL bad, not just the lesbian ones.
You’re right. I’m still confused.
I could totally write erotic fanfic for the scenario of lesbian gender feminists destroying family for fun and profit. Though if there’s an animated version, it has to contain this song (NSFW)
Oh god, now over at AVFM they’re resurrected that whole “feminists/zombie Betty Friedan killed the male birth control pill”* (yeah, it had nothing to do with the fact that it left a high percentage of men permanently sterile), combined it with “mass numbers of men are being locked up in debtors prisons for inability to pay child support” (vs. men who actually do have the ability to pay and aren’t), thrown in a dash of “VAWA makes women universally innocent and men universally guilty” and topped it off with “Obamacare restores the matriarch” or some shit. I really can’t read this any more. I am sure the comments are horrifying, but I. Just. Can’t. Bring. Myself. To. Look.
Here’s the link, if anyone is feeling brave enough. I’m going to look for some baby sloth videos to restore my faith in the world.
*There really was a UN World Population Conference in Budapest in 1974, but I have found nothing to corroborate the story about the Coutinho vs. Friedan/angry whorde of feminists confrontation. The main point of tension at that conference was about developing nations feeling like the whole “population control” theme was implicitly racist, and it causing divisions between feminists in poor vs. rich countries. Off to find sloths!
@Dvärghundspossen:
Ah, no, I was slightly mistaken. I was thinking about the “Imitation Game” upon which the Turing test was based. The idea was that you’d replace either the man or the woman in the imitation game with a computer and see how well the computer can play.
well…someone on spreadhead is capable of self reflection.
“Random Person April 10, 2012 at 09:19
Here is the simple truth: our postmodern societies are lonely. People are dispersed and transient. We don’t grow up and stay in a certain neighborhood with the same families and friends our whole lives anymore. Add to that rising relative morality and everyone being overly concerned with their own rights and interests and love is nowhere to be found. Women and men are both lonely and both want love – neither is solely and fundamentally responsible for this mess, and neither is incapable of love. The prototypical woman of the MRM is nearly pure fiction.
Here’s the truth that no one wants to hear: more than half of loneliness is selfishness. When we’re lonely we’re often victims of ourselves rather than anyone else. Others may have mistreated you, you may have been raised with very poor examples, there might be quite a few causes outside of you that are legitimate, but ultimately nothing significant is going to change in your life unless you change. If you’re not capable of an enduring loving relationship no one else is going to be able to create it for you – it necessarily involves at least two people who are capable of it.
If I honestly ask myself whether or not I’m a loving person to any significant extent I realize the answer is no. I lie when it suits me, I’m unkind when I feel like being unkind, I don’t offer to help others without being asked, I don’t usually take any time thinking about how others feel or what their hopes and fears and problems and projects are. So of course I’m lonely. I could say to myself well no one has ever loved me, so why should I love anyone? But guess what that accomplishes? Nothing. I’m still alone and I’m still a jackass.
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 14”
I’ve pretty much only seen the term “gender feminists” from self-professed “equality feminists.” “Equality feminists” are totes feminist you guys, they just happen to believe that men and women are fundamentally different and that’s why they are likely to serve different roles/experience different levels of success/approach dating and sex in different ways. However, they’re feminists because they believe men and women should have equality of opportunity, which, according to “equality feminists”, we already do! Yay! “Gender feminists” are those silly people who seem to think that gender roles don’t perfectly describe every single human being on the planet, and are not innate to the human species. They also don’t believe true equality for men and women exists at this moment.
In other words, “gender feminists” are… feminists.
I’ma try to find a good link but I can’t remember where I found most of this stuff the first time :-/
Ooh, here is a linky. And, oops, it’s “equity” feminism, not “equality” feminism, my bad!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism
Does gender lesbianism have anything to do with this gender raunch thing the MRAs are always going on about? I googled both, and for the first got a lot of hits on “gender, lesbianism” and “gender. Lesbianism …”, but nothing without punctuation. Gender raunch, on the other hand, provided lots of links to MRM sites, plus an extra bonus link to “Backyard teenager gender raunch at igrannies.com,” which I can only imagine, but hell yeah, igrannies.
Anyway, both phrases have struck me as simple-minded MRAs’ ways of saying “This thing that I dislike intensely, but can’t really explain why or describe in any detail! Here, let me pile more words that I dislike into this phrase, and it will seem even more distasteful!” Kinda like how they like adding extra letters to words, because that is a good argument.
@Viscaria:
What they don’t realize is that equality isn’t just “women are allowed to vote and go to school” such… One of the theories as to why there are differences between men and women’s mathematical ability is that, while girls are not necessarily discouraged from studying math, they also aren’t particularly motivated to keep trying if they aren’t doing well. Meanwhile, when boys are having trouble people keep pushing them to do better.
Meanwhile, in cultures where academics are more valued, you simply don’t see a gendered difference in mathematical ability. Even if you believe that there are biological differences in ability between genders, this should be enough to convince you that assuming you know what those differences are is a terrible way of going about things.
Pillowinhell, Random Person is the only sensible person on that comment thread.
Equity feminism is totes the flip side of the whole “I’m not racist/sexist” thing; just like they don’t want bad words to apply to them, they do want words with positive connotations to apply to them, even if they don’t actually subscribe to anything remotely like it.
“Raunch” seems to be a criticism of sex positivism.
we’re past turing. what we need is voight-kampf.
Deckard: Your husband comes across a nude photo in a magazine. He likes it so much he hangs it on your bedroom wall.
Price: First of all, fuck you for suggesting I like men. Second, that’s a man’s biological imperative and the lesbian gender feminists are trying to take it away from us.
” Male feminists who boast about fathering children and shuffling their responsibilities onto some duped cuckold, and who malign their fellow men for a crack at college girls.”
Here I thought that those were things Alpha-Cock-Assholes did, and that male feminists were manginas. They can’t even keep their own stupid categories straight.
ooooh, i am TOTES a Lesbian Gender Feminist! Be very afraid, sexist jackass MRA boys…i will be on the prowl, looking for Families to Wreck, for Teh Profitz and Teh Sex! not just any sex, but Teh Lesbian Sex!!!!!!!!!! PANIC! PANIC!!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS, MRAZZZZZ!
I’m not, and I surely wouldn’t, but it’s usually hard to avoid. That’s why I’m so confused. I had some Nice Guy tendencies myself when I was younger, but my half-formed simplistic beliefs about women not liking sex, or Nice Guys, or whatever kept getting disrupted by my real-life contacts with actual women. Have these people no sisters, mothers, female co-workers? How does someone have contact with any women at all and believe that women don’t actually love?
Unbelievable that someone would think women are so emotional that they need to be controlled by men. Uh, which gender is mostly responsible for wars and genocides? And this guy has the audacity to point a finger at women? Sheesh!
Have these people no sisters, mothers, female co-workers?
This.
The sad truth is that I kind of hope this is the case… that they’ve somehow managed to self-exile in Guyville and avoid all contact with woman. The alternative is somehow too horrifying to accept fully.
yeah, a lot of these dudes actually claim that women are actually responsible for all wars because they force men to go off and die so… something something.
no really, next time owlslave comes around try to get him started on hillary clinton.
@Seraph- It is remarkably easy for people to get caught up in their own narratives in their head and use logical fallacies to just ignore everything that does not fit into their worldview. They are so contradictory that it’s not really hard to come up with a really douchey explaination for all of women’s behavior. Women doesn’t date nice guy= women only like thugs. Woman does date nice guy= mangina white night. Woman has casual sex= SLUT. Woman doesn’t have casual sex= cocktease. And so forth. And there’s almost always some category of “exceptional women,” such as their mothers, who they absolutely cannot place as lying whores.
which gender is mostly responsible for wars and genocides?
wait wut
These guys are boobz, man.
@Sharculese
Deckard: Your husband comes across a nude photo in a magazine. He likes it so much he hangs it on your bedroom wall.
Price: First of all, fuck you for suggesting I like men. Second, that’s a man’s biological imperative and the lesbian gender feminists are trying to take it away from us.
I can’t stop laughing!
no really, next time owlslave comes around try to get him started on hillary clinton.
Do you remember when he tried to use Lysistrata as historical proof of women’s devious sexual power? Good times