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Men’s Rights Redditors find “ebonics” hilarious

The regulars over on the Men’s Rights Subreddit are currently getting amused and/or outraged by the existence of a book titled “Girl, Get That Child Support,” a guide to help single mothers track down deadbeat dads and get the child support they are owed. A few of them were apparently so overstimulated by the book’s title, and a reference to “Baby Mamas” in the subtitle, that this little conversation ensued:

 

Note the upvotes and the (scarcity of) downvotes. And the complete lack of anyone saying “hey, you’re being racist assholes.”

The Men’s Rights Movement, the “most significant civil rights movement of the 3rd millennium.”

 

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Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Hint, btw: I don’t do that.

Polliwog
Polliwog
9 years ago

Speaking as a musician who picks up languages very quickly and is pretty good at accents, I think being a musician has a LOT to do with it, although it’s a little chicken-and-eggy – I’m not sure whether I’m just inherently good at both singing and hearing/replicating accents, or if one of them caused the other, or if both of them contribute to each other in a feedback loop (which seems most likely to me).

I’m sure a huge part of why I’m pretty good at accents, though, is that I’m not just a musician, I’m specifically a classical singer – which means I have to sing things in a whole lot of different languages, which means I’ve spent quite a lot of conscious time and effort listening to things like how to properly roll an R in Italian, or how soft to make the “K” sound in Finnish, or the difference between “ou” and “u” in French. For obvious reasons, having to know how to go “ou” instead of “u” for your job tends to make one pretty good at hearing the difference between “ou” and “u.”

(Where I suck hilariously, though, is in losing my own accents once I have them. I’ve been teased by native francophones for my bizarrely-accented French more than once. It’s not that there’s anything fundamentally wrong with it – it’s just that I had five French teachers in six years, who were, respectively, from Alsace-Lorraine, Belgium, Provence, Senegal, and Paris, and I picked up their intonations well enough that my accent apparently sounds like all of them at once (plus my own American accent to boot, of course). Apparently this is a wee bit confusing to listeners trying to figure out where I’m from. :-p )

Alex
9 years ago

@chibigodzilla,

I don’t like to give out the name of my city online because it’s kind of small. But it’s in the southern part of Ontario, and yes, it is near the great lakes. 🙂

Unrelated, wow, this thread exploded…

darksidecat
8 years ago

You know, IS, if you wanted to call a commenter out on their ableism, you could have just done that. Except it’s clearly not what you wanted to do, what you wanted to do was derail a discussion of other commenters classism and/or racism.

Also, the notion that politics are unpersonal and not subject to criticism is total fucking bullshit.

darksidecat
8 years ago

If you want to call someone out for ableism, do that, don’t use it as a flimsy fucking excuse to derail their callout of another commenter’s racism, classism, etc.

darksidecat
8 years ago

hm, not sure why that posted the first draft of my comment too like that…whatever…

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Ruby: Didn’t you say that people who don’t modify their speech shouldn’t be surprised when they don’t get jobs?

That’s saying one style of speech is superior to the others. You may not (well, obviously not) think so, but you are. Because you are arguing that, in order to avoid discrimination the outgroup needs to cater to the preferences of the in-group.

That, “passing” is the thing to do. You can decry “the need” as bad, all you like, but you are still supporting the system.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

indifferentsky: . I hate it and would be tempted to be mean as well, I’m suggesting we do that on posts that warrant it and not carry over to when the person is not doing anything wrong, like when Ruby makes feminist commentary and then someone writes “Ruby: Troll”

If I thought that was happening, I’d say something (I’ve done it before; it went over about as well as might be expected).

But I don’t think that’s the case. It’s not that Ruby is a “troll” in the sense of wanting to stir up trouble, it’s that Ruby takes some fairly extreme (and sometimes completely insupportable) positions, and then refuses to engage with critique.

We all do it to some degree, but Ruby (as with many who are purely trollish) gets really upsent when challenged, engaging in personal attacks, which doesn’t help the tenor of the conversation (as with the claim that the disagreements are related to her politics, and not the arguments she’s making).

So it’s not really fair to the rest of us to say, absent some evidence, that you think we aren’t giving her arguments a fair shake; and just going after her because we don’t like libertarians, or republicans, or greens, or whatever.

And nothing exists in a vacuum. We all get one shot at first impressions, after that we are building on past performance. Ruby is confrontational, in a way which is different from my ways of being confrontational. It’s rare that I get really pissed at someone here, and go into the cold rage of endless typing.

I’ve done it maybe three times. One of those comments got pulled, because I was sailing close to the wind (Iof course think I managed to stay just this side of improper, but Dave didn’t, nor did a couple of other commenters. It happens the target of my ire hit one of the few really sore spots with me… oddly enough someone else did it at the first Seder this passover, which didn’t help with my mood on the night of the second Seder, but I digress).

No one has held that against me. Why? Because I didn’t hold it against them that they disagreed with me.

Ruby does. That’s a short ride to being on the angry train all the time. Which is a feedback loop. NWO is there, he knows he’s going to get savaged on the content of his posts, so he just cuts right to the vitriol. In some venues it might keep the content from being ripped up. Not here.

So he loses twice, and wins once (i.e. he gets ripped up, and his arguments get ripped up, but he doesn’t, in the main, make anyone angry. It’s just a two-year old, throwing a tantrum. Loud, annoying, and distracting, but basically harmless. Basically, because we can deal with it, not beause what he says isn’t foul, and harmful).

No one has to go that road. Most people don’t go down it. But it requires accepting that others can disagree with your ideas, passionately, vehemently, and not be disagreeing with you.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

As someone from Texas, I can assure everyone that no, those singers are NOT exaggerating their accent. Just listen to any live performance or track that involves spoken word with John Prine or Jerry Jeff Walker.

Also, my husband can not fake an “American standard” accent to save his Southern hide. He TRIES, if really pushed, but pretty much fails. Seeing him try to pronounce “I” in a way that the locals here won’t hear as “R” is painful. He used to be really self-conscious about it, worrying it made him seem “low class.” Now he worries he’s LOSING his accent from living in Yankeeville!

I, on the other hand, pick up crap everywhere. My time in New Zealand still means I occassionally say “Whereabouts are you from?” or “Sweet as,” and refer to college as “uni.”

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

I’ve been working on a strong Russian accent for awhile. Largely because the party I’m running a roleplaying game for happen to be on a planet that was settled largely by Russians.

Dare I hope this planet is Barrayar? Probably it isn’t.

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
8 years ago

I NEVER said that all poor people are lazy and don’t deserve state funded medical care. That’s just a strawman argument you used, Myoo, because you hate my Libertarian views.

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
8 years ago

The reason I said that those who speak red neck shouldn’t expect to get a white collar job is because it’s another accent that gets discriminated against. That’s all. Never did I say I approved of the discrimination. Sheesh!

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
8 years ago

Yes, I said that we women are geneically programmed to go for men of means. It goes back to our cave grandmothers going for the best hunters. I don’t see why this should be considered anti-feminist.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Ruby:

1: Should people who want a “white collar job” try to emulate american standard?

2: As to why, “women are genetically programmed to go for men of means”, it’s anti-feminist because it’s not true.

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
8 years ago

What “racism”?

It wasn’t Men’s rightsers who concocted “ebonics”; the preposterous, semi-obscene, illiterate display of black ghettospeak which unfortunately passes for Black “English” in far too many circles.

It wasn’t even American Rennaisance, Stormfront, or National Alliance!

It was people who demanded that real standards of scholarship and literature were “elitist”, that it was somehow “unfair” to expect black people to read, write, and speak like white people, and that White speech (and manners) were somehow a “racist” imposition on blacks.

You are what you show yourselves to be, whether as egalitarian liberal white(?) morons, or black savages…

I’ll take Spearhead, in Mala Fide, and Anti-Feminist Tech, etc. any time! If it makes you feel better, I think that even Stormfront or American Renaissance have an edge on you “ebonics” advocates there! If support for or apology for “ebonix” is support for equality, I’ll take elitism any time.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Correction it’s not anti-feminist. It’s ,misogynist, and anti-woman. It’s not a feminist limited complaint, because it’s not true of women, not just not true of feminists.

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
8 years ago

Of course, sterilizing sluts, tramps, and other candidates for unwed motherhood–an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure–would solve the problem of “deadbeat dads” permanently, wouldn’t it? So would mandatory adoption of children of such women…

Food for thought!

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Meller

Oh my god. I know who you remind me of now.

EDWARD CULLEN GET OFF THE INTERNET. GO SPARKLE WITH DAVID BOWIE.

Seriously, does anybody else see the resemblance? I swear to god, DKM is Edward Cullen!

RE: Ruby

Science still doesn’t explain why my husband is so hot to me. 🙁

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Yes yes, you’re obsenely racist, Meller. We already know.

Flib
Flib
8 years ago

@Falconer

It isn’t. I am sorry to disappoint you. Though, I have seen Barrayar in a friends library.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Roll up, roll up, roll up! See the amazing Mellerman! Born without a sense of self-reflection, he says the most mind-bogglingly stupid things!

AMAZING displays of privilege!

STUPENDOUS piles of racist bullshit!

It’s so WONDERFUL when he shuts up!

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Oh Meller. An American talking about speaking “proper English” is not being an elitist, just dumb as bricks. That shit that comes out your mouth is no less a bastardized version of English as ebonics and I find it hella funny that you think it is. It’s just as stupid as thinking there is one American English. But, you know, you go right on with your elitist self. I’m sure there are a lot of people absolutely devastated that they don’t fit your monstrous idea of what it means to be human/American/anything really. Hell, even animals are glad to not live up to your expectations.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

What “racism”?

Well, there’s this racism…

It wasn’t Men’s rightsers who concocted “ebonics”; the preposterous, semi-obscene, illiterate display of black ghettospeak which unfortunately passes for Black “English” in far too many circles.

See, what you’re saying here, in an effort to pretend racism isn’t a thing? It’s what is called “Incredibly fucking racist.”

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

What racism?

I think that even Stormfront or American Renaissance have an edge on you “ebonics” advocates there! If support for or apology for “ebonix” is support for equality, I’ll take elitism any time.

Asking us to ignore your complete lack of comprehension of the way languages work Really… do you speak Old English? No, you don’t. You don’t even speak Middle English. I’ll wager you can’t speak Elizabethan English, and stumble over Modern British.

You speak, instead, the degenerate diction, and overly schwa-laden, nasally flat, cant of the expat and outcasts who peopled this shore, colored by the words they adopted from their slaves and the indigenous people they displaced.

Even at that, you couldn’t converse wth the Founding Fathers you claim to revere, not without an intense course in the dialect of English they spoke at the time; the words may look the same, but when T. Jefferson said, “sublime”, or, “pursuit” of happiness, he meant something quite different from what you take them to be.

And I’ll wager you could even recognise an honest to goodness Indo-European paragraph as anything more than gibberish.

The problem with you, my dear man, is that you are so blinkered and narrow-minded, what with spending your time praising racists (and pretending that reflects not a whit on you), that you have failed to obtain an actual education, preferring their self-indulgent cant to actual thought.

katz
8 years ago

Oh, thank God, Meller’s being an absurd racist again. I need this so badly; it’s been a rough morning.

ithiliana
8 years ago

@DKM: I’m not at home where I have your vile statements about how women like my graduate student deserve to get killed by men–but I’ll get it up later.

Until then, have a nice breakdown of English teachers’ positions on students own languages, relating to the so-called “Ebonics” issue (of which you are as ignorant as you are about everything else, you racist shithead).

National Council of Teachers of English

The single biggest organization for English teachers (at ALL educational levels).

Their position statements on Language topics, as the GROUP dealing with the teaching of writing in the US:

http://www.ncte.org/positions/language

Their (edited but originally issued in 1971) statement on students’ right to their own languages:

Resolution on the Students’ Right to Their Own Language

last edited 4 years, 8 months ago
content history
1974 NCTE Annual Business Meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana

Background

Members of NCTE and its constituent group, the Conference on College Composition and Communication (CCCC), became concerned in the early 1970s about a tendency in American society to categorize nonstandard dialects as corrupt, inferior, or distorted forms of standard English, rather than as distinct linguistic systems, and the prejudicial labeling of students that resulted from this view. Be it therefore

Resolution

Resolved, that the National Council of Teachers of English affirm the students’ right to their own language—to the dialect that expresses their family and community identity, the idiolect that expresses their unique personal identity;

that NCTE affirm the responsibility of all teachers of English to assist all students in the development of their ability to speak and write better whatever their dialects;

that NCTE affirm the responsibility of all teachers to provide opportunities for clear and cogent expression of ideas in writing, and to provide the opportunity for students to learn the conventions of what has been called written edited American English; and

that NCTE affirm strongly that teachers must have the experiences and training that will enable them to understand and respect diversity of dialects.

Be it further Resolved, that, to this end,

that NCTE make available to other professional organizations this resolution as well as suggestions for ways of dealing with linguistic variety, as expressed in the CCCC background statement on students’ right to their own language; and

that NCTE promote classroom practices to expose students to the variety of dialects that comprise our multiregional, multiethnic, and multicultural society, so that they too will understand the nature of American English and come to respect all its dialects.

Are we always able to live up to our ideals? No.

Are the practices of such ideals always perfect? No.

Is it better than what went before? Fuck, yes.

katz
8 years ago

Ithiliana, don’t forget that Meller hates teachers. They’re womenfolk who ought to be in your cabin in the woods homeschooling your brood of little dolls, but TOTALLY AREN’T.

ithiliana
8 years ago

@Katz: Oh, I know. But I figured it would chafe his hide to see that English teachers are part of the great conspiracy to change things and have been for decades, and he probably didn’t even know about it, and cannot stop them, ahahahahahahahahahaha.

ithiliana
8 years ago

Plus, I’m kinda hoping he’s developed a sort of twitch or something so that whenever he sees my name, he flinches.

A girl can dream!

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

That, “passing” is the thing to do. You can decry “the need” as bad, all you like, but you are still supporting the system.

It’s really, really not cool to say people who pass to avoid dealing with shit are causing their shit. It’s also untrue. The majority are causing shit, not a minority

I NEVER said that all poor people are lazy and don’t deserve state funded medical care.

Yeah, you did, actually. Repeatedly. We were there. Don’t lie to us. Saying that people ‘get ahead when they deserve it’ is a repetition of tired classist memes. As to not deserving health care, it’s part and parcel with A: opposing state health care, and B: saying people get where they deserve, knowing full well that millions lack health care (and millions more have shitty health care). Had you not done either of those things, there’d be room to say you didn’t say people didn’t deserve health care, but that is not what you did.

Never did I say I approved of the discrimination. Sheesh!

Then why did you bother fucking saying it? This isn’t a thread about advice to get hired. Nor was the fucking Reddit thread. It’s just affirmation of privilege.

Yes, I said that we women are geneically programmed to go for men of means.

Statement assumes facts not in motherfucking evidence, you fucking twit.

It goes back to our cave grandmothers going for the best hunters.

No, it fucking doesn’t. In more gender-equal societies, hypergamy is lessened to a roughly equivalent degree In ancient times, hunting wasn’t even the fucking best way to get food, gathering and then agriculture were (Activities which women fucking participated in, you incompetent).

I don’t see why this should be considered anti-feminist.

Aside from being stupid and wrong (Which is sufficient on its own), it puts forth the idea that women, as an aggregate, want status. In point of fact, you can’t even get away with trying to do normal stereotyping bullshit of saying you just mean it’s ‘some’ women; you said it’s fucking genetically programmed, which is evopsych just so stories (Funny how humans are genetically programmed to replicate western society’s mores, isn’t it?)

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Well, Melelr, go back to Stormfront. They can have you.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Mellertoad:

Of course, sterilizing sluts, tramps, and other candidates for unwed motherhood–an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure–would solve the problem of “deadbeat dads” permanently, wouldn’t it? So would mandatory adoption of children of such women…

This slut and tramp right here has been trying to get sterilized for YEARS, but maybe you should work on paternalistic doctors who think I don’t know my own mind.

Other than that, you can take your eugenics, roll it into a tight ball and shove it up your ass. It might fight for space with your head, but MAKE IT WORK.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

That, “passing” is the thing to do. You can decry “the need” as bad, all you like, but you are still supporting the system.

It’s really, really not cool to say people who pass to avoid dealing with shit are causing their shit. It’s also untrue. The majority are causing shit, not a minority

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but to me Pecunium’s statement reads as a denouncement of those who advocate that “passing” is the right way to go about things, not that those who “pass” are furthering their oppression.

That being said though, I do think that teaching people how to converse in a standard dialect is important. However, this should not be done by devaluing the diverse array of dialects out there. And there’s also a problem with deciding on the dialect to standardize.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Of course, sterilizing sluts, tramps, and other candidates for unwed motherhood

By which you mean, I assume, the majority of the adolescent and adult populations of the United States? Of course you do, look who I’m talking to.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

You can sterlize yourself all you want DKM-but forced sterlization of women just because you disapprove of them?

Nope.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Food for thought!

If any relied on YOUR thoughts for food… well

Only your dumb ass would think of sterilizing victims instead of perpetrators

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Rutee: I am not saying people who pass are supporting it. I’m saying that Ruby, by saying people ought to pass is supporting it.

Vitamin D
Vitamin D
8 years ago

@princessbonbon- Woa, I just scrolled down to the bottom and read your reply and I can only imagine the conversation that must have prompted it. Do you get desensitized to the crazy trolls here after a while?

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Meller: Of course, sterilizing sluts, tramps, and other candidates for unwed motherhood–an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure–would solve the problem of “deadbeat dads” permanently, wouldn’t it? So would mandatory adoption of children of such women…

Food for thought!

So would sterilising men who refuse to pay child support, and then sending them to the galleys, or salt mines, or iPad factories, or something, where all the wages they earn would be sent to the women they abandoned.

Both are immoral, but I’ll bet you’d only be willing to support the former, not the latter.

Which is how we know you hate women.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Meller: How is this forced sterilisation going to work?

Is it like the brothels, where the women will do it because it’s fun, and what they want to do anyway?

Are their fathers and brothers going to, “turn them over” to the clinics; to get their tubes tied?

What if they are white women? Who only like white men? Should they be allowed to, “tramp it up”, so the number of white babies keeps pace with everyone else?

Why can’t they just use BC, and be allowed to do what they want. The last seems the most Libertarian position.

I thought you were a Libertarian.

darksidecat
8 years ago

Can I now officially call Meller a nazi and not have it be godwinning, since he is now openly advocating eugenics, is a racist, an anti-semite, a homophobe, a red scare promoter, and has in the past engaged in holocaust denial. Really, there’s not noticable distinction between Meller and a nazi.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Vitamin D: Some. It helps that we get some who are persistent. If one is wise one spends time in the outside net, or doing something else, which isn’t at stressfull (like petting cactus*), and is reminded that 1: The world is full of decent people and 2: even for the sorts who aren’t all we might like them to be, the Mellers, and NWOs, and FFs, of the world are actually few and far between.

*the comment on cactus was for the benefit of Meller… hedgehogs and porcupines and kittens! Oh MY!

katz
8 years ago

So many responses to Meller I can’t pick just one!

Option 1: Obvious joke that if we euthanized people unfit to reproduce we wouldn’t be dealing with Meller right now.

Option 2: Maybe if we did enough selective breeding we could get women to actually grow luxurious pelts of fur.

Option 3: You could also stop unwanted reproduction by just having sex with dolls.

Option 4: If you euthanize a bunch of Americans, then our population will get taken over by immigrants oh nooooooooo

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Rutee: I am not saying people who pass are supporting it. I’m saying that Ruby, by saying people ought to pass is supporting it.

‘kay

Really, there’s not noticable distinction between Meller and a nazi.

Well, he’s not german, is he?

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Meller

People like you are why I’m an optimist. Because my society, flawed as it is, doesn’t have YOU in charge of it.

It’s almost enough to make me renounce atheism.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

@princessbonbon- Woa, I just scrolled down to the bottom and read your reply and I can only imagine the conversation that must have prompted it. Do you get desensitized to the crazy trolls here after a while?

I find them to be entertaining toys.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Well, he’s not german, is he?

Sadly there are American nazis and British fascists. Do we know where the vile toad DKM hails from?

katz
8 years ago

American, given his desire to divide the world along the Mississippi.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I thought that was Antz. Is my memory faulty, or do we have two trolls that want to do that? ‘Cos that would be kind of amazing!