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feminism misogyny nice guys self-promotion sex

I’m giving a talk at Northwestern University on Monday. Topic: How to hate women and have terrible sex

Hot sex talk

Just a little heads up for any of you in the Chicago area: I’ll be speaking at Northwestern University on Monday, as part of its annual “Sex Week.”

My topic? “How to hate women and have terrible sex: Misogynistic sex myths, and how they ruin sex for everyone.” Nice Guys, Friend Zones, and the Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel will all make appearances.

The talk will be at 8 PM in Room G02 of Annenberg Hall on the Northwestern Campus in Evanston.

(Here’s a map.)

There will be free condoms and lube. (Apparently.)

For more about sex week, see the official website, or take a look at this piece in the Daily Northwestern.

Sex week is sponsored by the College Feminists; I’m talking at the invitation of Men Against Rape and Sexual Assault.

I’ll be writing the lecture over the weekend, so please feel free to offer suggestions as to which misogynistic sex myths I should talk about.

EDITED TO ADD: The Spearhead has discovered that I’m doing this talk. W. F. Price writes about it with his usual objectivity, by which I mean that his piece is filled with lies and weird projection.

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Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

Good luck. You should give some advice on guys how to avoid accusations of rape. I hope you don’t slip up and say something ableist or any other -ist and get run out for being a guy.

BUTTMAN RETURNS!!!!!

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Derpwood
“Okay, since women rule the world according to Slave, can someone please call in the mangina gestapo to beat the shit out of him? I would, but I left the signal in my other pants.”

Any group that is able to have laws enacted that benefit only that group, while billing the group that doesn’t benefit, does have all the power.

pujeemuhs
pujeemuhs
8 years ago

http://manboobz.com/2012/04/07/im-giving-a-talk-at-northwestern-university-on-monday-topic-how-to-hate-women-and-have-terrible-sex/comment-page-2/#comment-143060

“You should give some advice on guys how to avoid accusations of rape.”

Only fuck people you know for certain want to fuck you. The End.

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
8 years ago

Oh, also, just general notes to talk about at Northwestern? Make sure you lead with how sorry you are that they didn’t get in to U of C. Sucks for them.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

“No woman, no womans organization, no woman reporter, no woman in any position of power made so much as a peep to stand up for men.”

Why are there female anti feminist PRO MRM asshole turd women then?
You gonna tell that to girlwritescrap? Or Emma the Emo? Or mags? There are lots and lots of ‘what about the menz’ women out there. In fact they’re the norm, and real feminists are the exception. And unapologetic, non egg shell walking feminists are even more rare.

Delusional.

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

“also show me how the republicans are creating jobs and helping the economy? ”

There is no doubt that the economy improved after the mid-term elections that were dominated by Republicans. We would be fully recovered if Republicans had taken control of the Senate.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

OH, don’t mean to straw man you, if you mean women with power… there are women writers like that Suzanne woman, forget her last name she wrote a book about how boys are having their boyness squashed in schools, and Phyllis Shafely, the main opponent of NOW, but the list goes on.

Women, typically throughout history have not wanted to break a nail or appear in any way unattractive to the status quo while real feminists did the work for them. Most women badmouthed the movement no matter what time period and what was going on, the vote… the fight for women to work, anything. There were tons of women saying, but I don’t WANT to vote, or work, etc. But I WANT men to light my cigarettes and open doors (Bette Davis). So stop living in your dream world already. ‘But I WANT to go back to Chris Brown!’ How many of those chicks on twitter said that CB could hit them, no probs? I know some commented like that.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

Ooh! Good luck on your lecture! You should come to Canada and give lectures as well…

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

@sky

Most people, regardless of their sex or gender, don’t want to break the status quo period.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

“When women use violence in an intimate relationship, the context of that violence tends to differ from men. First, men’s use of violence against women is learned and reinforced through many social, cultural and institutional avenues, while women’s use of violence does not have the same kind of societal support. Secondly, many women who do use violence against their male partners are being battered. Their violence is primarily used to respond to and resist the controlling violence being used against them. On the societal level, women’s violence against men has a trivial effect on men compared to the devastating effect of men’s violence against women.”

NWo you realize that this can be found in the studies that MRM cites for DV? Men self report that the altercation in question on the studies did not effect them, or did minimally. That’s likely taken from real findings. If we want to prove that DV that goes on against men is devastating, then go for it, do the studies.

Another meaning to this is that women DIE more often. That’s a “devastating effect.”
Last year in Minnesota, 23 women DIED and one man. So there’s more proof to back up this paragraph. It’s a general statement, just generally true according to some studies, and some stats. It’s not the whole truth though A huge number of men died of DV last year according to DOJ. Yes, half as many as women, and the details are not known (check the MN link… the suicides might be counted after they murdered their partners, also they could have been killed by a male relative in the altercation, not sure what the stats mean), but the numbers to show that we need to include men in the awareness campaigns.

http://www.mcbw.org/files/images/2011_Femicide_Report_FINAL_0.pdf

nwoslave
8 years ago

@indifferentsky

A woman in the states, a woman in norway, a man posing as a woman = lots and lots? Perhaps my math fails me, 2 out of 3.5 billion = lots and lots? What about the MSM, the State, the education system, corporations, the UN? Not so much, huh?

Surely you aren’t counting Ozy’s hate site? While you might consider a little boy on boy action, dressing men up in frilly skirts and heels while clutching dollies and weeping for womens approval, progressive enlightenment. Us throwbacks from the dark ages find that shit repulsive. Which, by the way, is the vast majority of men. Perhaps we’re just not in touch with our feminine side, the side with all the goodness.

Funny how that works, isn’t it? The feminine side is the good side of a man, the masculine side is the bad side of a man.

Also funny is how my questions never get answered. Could one of you very smart, strong, intelligent, sexually independent women care to field that question? If a man getting in touch with his feminine side is good, the masculine side must be bad. There can be no other reason for a man to get in touch with his feminine side other than all the goodness residing in the feminine. Is female the root of all goodness?

indifferentsky
8 years ago

aww man block quote fail, sorry guys. Of course my comment starts at “NWO”

Maya, the context is someone complaining that women don’t stand up for men.
Also within a general discussion of feminism, a movement for women, it’s worth noting. I know that people love the status quo. It’s worth pointing out that women have not historically supported their own movement. I would say more African Americans supported abolition efforts (yes, some didn’t but, probably a small number), and the civil rights movement, than women generally support feminism.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

aww man block quote fail, sorry guys. Of course my comment starts at “NWO”

Maya, the context is someone complaining that women don’t stand up for men.
Also within a general discussion of feminism, a movement for women, it’s worth noting. I know that people love the status quo. It’s worth pointing out that women have not historically supported their own movement. I would say more African Americans supported abolition efforts (yes, some didn’t but, probably a small number), and the civil rights movement, than women generally support feminism.

I sometimes wonder why. Is it just me or for most people feminism is the “one bad movement”. True, there are plenty of jingoistic, racist assholes who hate on black people and fundamentalists who hate gay people, but out of all civil rights movements feminism gets a degree of hatred you would rarely see anywhere else.

Maybe I’m just imagining things.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

If I were to believe Owly, I would think that women cry at the drop of a pin and most of them walk around wearing barely any clothing and ready to screw at any given time. The stupid notion that no women have ever stood up for men, even on the bizarre terms of his own movement, is the merest fraction of his illusions. I can really only conclude that he stays holed up in a compound all day, or that he has amnesia, or that when he’s not being flown around the country fixing milking machines he just walks through underground tunnels to get from place to place if he honestly believes even half of what he says.

Of course, his stated modus operandi is to be as childish and irrational as possible in these comment threads, supposedly as a weapon against feminism, so it’s hard to tell what he actually thinks.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

Or maybe it’s that most people make a distinction between women’s rights/gender equality and evil bad feminazis.

So many people say “Of course I’m for equal rights and I believe men and women are equal. But I’m not a feminist.”

nwoslave
8 years ago

@indifferentsky
“NWo you realize that this can be found in the studies that MRM cites for DV? Men self report that the altercation in question on the studies did not effect them, or did minimally. That’s likely taken from real findings. If we want to prove that DV that goes on against men is devastating, then go for it, do the studies.”

Or perhaps the truth that it isn’t all that devastating. A woman hitting a man is no more devastating than a man hitting a woman. Perhaps women should man up and stop being drama queens.

If a woman gets bruised from bumping into something she’ll be like, “oh shit, that really hurts.” But that exact same bruise inflicted by a man from a scuffle she intitiated suddenly turns into hysterics, tears and a call to big daddy. Why is the bruise from bumping no big deal, but the same bruise from a scuffle is suddenly an earth shattering drama?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“10 dicks in her already??? So are you saying when men have sex their dicks break off and stay in woman?? I…um….biology….goodbye O_O”

Finally it all makes sense! Slavey is actually Sam Kinison.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

Of course, his stated modus operandi is to be as childish and irrational as possible in these comment threads, supposedly as a weapon against feminism, so it’s hard to tell what he actually thinks.

Assuming that he thinks at all to begin with.

arks
8 years ago

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex. For women, the “idea” of having sex with someone is more exciting than actually having sex with them. This is all to do with the way the female brain is wired. If you’ve ever interacted with a woman you’d know how much pleasure they get from one-upping other girls and feeding on their jealousy. So for a woman, the knowledge that an alpha male has chosen her over other women to be his personal living fleshlight is far more intoxicating than any actual physical sensation could be.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Dear NWO: I don’t hate men.

I don’t particularly care about men; nor do I choose to include them in my personal life in any important way (i.e. my life partner is a woman). I work perfectly collegially with men, a number of men, but they are not emotionally important to me, nor do I feel called in any way to work for men’s rights.

Those are not the same thing.

I admit to being pretty pissed at all the male politicians AND THEIR FEMALE COLLEAGUES who are busy passing oppressive laws, but even that is not hate.

I don’t even hate you (I come close at times with DKM, I admit)>

OTOH, if you think Barbara Jordan’s life was one of nothing but being rewarded for being a woman, you know dick all about how black women were treated then (and now) in Amerika.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Tulgey Logger
“If I were to believe Owly, I would think that women cry at the drop of a pin and most of them walk around wearing barely any clothing and ready to screw at any given time.”

Women do cry much more frequently and easily than men. This is a fact. I can distinctly see the crack of every womans ass due to their skin tight jeans or short tight skirts. Women love to show cleavage and their shirts are so tight I can pretty much name every womans bra size. Another nasty fact. Women don’t necessarily screw all the time, they just have no sexual control, which they proudly display be walking arould like unevolved animals in heat.
——————
“The stupid notion that no women have ever stood up for men, even on the bizarre terms of his own movement, is the merest fraction of his illusions.”

There are men all over the world being oppressed, living in poverty, being recruited as young boys to fight in wars, they’re uneducated, poor dirty, living in poverty. Where are all the women willing to go kill and die for them? Men are killing and dying in all those lovely middle eastern and african nations for women right now.

Women cheer the death of men on in every country. I can turn on any news outlet and women reporters will be prattling on about the poor oppressed women in far off lands, and how they’re so pleased about “helping” women. The women in those countries will be cheering their men to kill and die for them as well.

No womens groups are calling for and end to men dying. It’s of little concern. You’re telling me women can get special free quota classes for women only in NASA but dead countrymen are too much trouble? Special womens laws for everything, yet mens lives mean so little? Lip service anyone? Apparently, the free contraception war on women takes precedence. I’m glad women have their priorities straight.
——————-
“I can really only conclude that he stays holed up in a compound all day, or that he has amnesia, or that when he’s not being flown around the country fixing milking machines he just walks through underground tunnels to get from place to place if he honestly believes even half of what he says.”

Most men spend the majority of their lives holed up in dismal factories as mooks for our masters. I’ve never actually seen a milking machine, but it’s not like you understand the real world beyond your pampered feminist theory.
——————
“Of course, his stated modus operandi is to be as childish and irrational as possible in these comment threads, supposedly as a weapon against feminism, so it’s hard to tell what he actually thinks.”

Personal name calling? I was supposedly moderated for that, you won’t be. You are privileged.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Arks: I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex.

That tells us more about you than about women, troll.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

If you’ve ever interacted with a woman…

I *am* a woman, and I still think you’re full of crap. 😛

kate
kate
8 years ago

I have to post fast ’cause there’s family stuff tonight, but I’d say one of the biggest myths is that the only women who “count” are the hot ones, and so it’s ok to say that all women are bitches because they’re erasing the girls who are their friends but who they aren’t interested in sleeping with.

Oh, and the strange myth that seems to go unsaid that sex is a sport where the score keeping is between you and your buddies and that the women are only incidental in helping you get a better score…

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

@ arks:

Yeah . . . women totally only have sex because they want to make other women jealous, they don’t actually enjoy it. I mean, the whole idea of a woman getting enjoyment out of the physical sensations of sex is absolutely ridiculous.

That must be why the clitoris has more nerve endings than any other part of the human body.

Jean-Renee
Jean-Renee
8 years ago

@ arks:

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex.

Protip: You’re doing it wrong.

gelar
gelar
8 years ago

@Arks: I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex.

That is so unintentionally hilarious.

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex

Or perhaps they don’t enjoy being someone’s “personal living fleshlight”.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

Man, if it’s misogynistic sex myths you’re looking for, Arks is a fucking gold mine. Dude’s practically a mythos unto himself.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex. For women, the “idea” of having sex with someone is more exciting than actually having sex with them. This is all to do with the way the female brain is wired. If you’ve ever interacted with a woman you’d know how much pleasure they get from one-upping other girls and feeding on their jealousy. So for a woman, the knowledge that an alpha male has chosen her over other women to be his personal living fleshlight is far more intoxicating than any actual physical sensation could be.

Someone’s been watching too many Hollywood movies. I can’t believe I actually have to tell someone this.

TV =/= Real Life

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Ithiliana
“@Dear NWO: I don’t hate men.

I don’t particularly care about men; nor do I choose to include them in my personal life in any important way (i.e. my life partner is a woman). I work perfectly collegially with men, a number of men, but they are not emotionally important to me, nor do I feel called in any way to work for men’s rights.”

Well, hopefully the day will soon arrive when all men show all women absolutely no concern for any hardship or problems what-so-ever. Since it isn’t hate, equality will finally be achieved.
———————-
“I admit to being pretty pissed at all the male politicians AND THEIR FEMALE COLLEAGUES who are busy passing oppressive laws, but even that is not hate.”

Would that include laws where men pay for women entitlements? Womens only education? Quota’s? Child custody? Countless women specific laws and hate laws like VAWA? Or are they goodie laws?
———————–
“OTOH, if you think Barbara Jordan’s life was one of nothing but being rewarded for being a woman, you know dick all about how black women were treated then (and now) in Amerika.”

I grew up in the ghetto. Most of the jobs I go to are in the ghetto’s, many of them in your home state of Texas. I doubt your pampered ass has ever ventured passed your privileged little world. At least you spelled communist Amerika correctly.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

Also Arks, Porn =/= Real Life either.

katz
8 years ago

David, you could totally fill a talk with myths that trolls posted in this thread.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Why on earth wouldn’t women demonstrate enjoyment of sex around a man who says things like “slobbering crotch maws”? Truly this is a mystery for the ages.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex.

I LOL’d.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@CassandraSays
““10 dicks in her already??? So are you saying when men have sex their dicks break off and stay in woman?? I…um….biology….goodbye O_O”

I was quoting kirbywarp so take it up with him. Hopefully, this is just your normal attempt at either distorting the facts or a dismal failure at humor, much like shaenon. Perhaps book o larnin worthy? Both of you being women, you’re quite adept at manipulating and lying to serve your purpose. And I only say that because it’s exactly what you’ve done and you’re both women. Reaffirming the stereotype.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

@NWO

“I’ve given you the State link showing that it is. It’s womens law. Plain and simple, woman will always be the victim.”
——–
If this is actually true, it’s incredibly sexist indeed and the law must change. Most ACTUAL feminists do not support benevolent-to-women sexist initiatives because that means that women are being given “special” treatment for having vaginas. I don’t want special treatment- I want normal treatment, but I want to make sure that there isn’t other socialized bullshit being used against my sex in kind.

The way to stop sexism isn’t to counter with so-called “benevolent” sexism (ie: believing that women always should win legal arguments), it’s to STOP SEXISM.
_______________________________________

“The duluth wheel IS based on the worst man who committed DV.

http://www.theduluthmodel.org/training/wheels.html

The duluth wheel is the basis, the bible of predominant aggressor theory, which is used in training police officers. I, as a man, AM judged by the worst man ever. Visit the site, see the pretty rainbow colors, read about womens solidarity.”
———-

Ok, hold on a second there, you’re specifically referring to cases of domestic violence.

I was not talking about DV specifically, I was talking about how most MRA sites seem to see ALL women (ie: anyone with a vagina and boobies) as being toxic skanks, as the DEFAULT POSITION OF THE GENDER. This disturbs and incenses me because as far as I’m concerned, to these people simply BEING FEMALE is some kind of heinous crime enough for a sizable amount of guys to automatically HATE MY GUTS and WISH ILL UPON ME.

It really bothers me to know that there are people out there who seriously have the sort of emotional baggage on them that justifies seeing me minding my own business on the street and then attacking or raping me because “bitches always withhold sex and she was asking for it.” This kind of bullshit is why I rarely go walk in public without my husband with me. I never have to deal with the kind of street harassment when he’s walking along with me. And no, for the record, I’m not wearing “sexy” clothes, and I’m actually pregnant at the moment (yes, we both talked about it ahead of time and mutually decided to complete our family). But still, the crap continues.

And yes, I’ve seen crazy ladies screaming and cussing and chasing after people. There are an inordinate amount of them in the city where I live because it’s the dumping ground for all the mentally ill and homeless. I take just as much issue from street harassment from women as I do from men. It’s just that I can out-intimidate most women, but that is not the case with most men. A full grown man has much more bone density and muscle mass than I do, and I work out!
__________________
“Just heart warming, isn’t it? Womens violence is always justified, mens violence is evil. This is womens law. Take every single gender specific law, VAWA, Title IX, ect, ect, ect. Replace the word woman with white people and the word man with black people and you’d have the most horrifyingly racist hate laws ever concieved. Well guess what they are as they now stand. Hate laws of course. Womens law is hate law. It’s all it could ever be.”
———

Once again, could you tell me who wrote and voted on these laws? I’m guessing it was the (mostly male) politicians who don’t think that women can write their own butts and therefore need special legal protections.

Of course, I could also suggest you take a gander at the problematic ways that men are expected to relate to society as well as women- the main problem is that men are expected to turn their female spouse into their best friend and confidant- she’s often literally the only person he ever shares any feelings with (if he does at all). Most men ARE taught that violence and anger are the only “acceptable” male emotions, and this is horrible because men are human beings and human beings have a full range of emotions. Dissuading men to experience the full range of emotions can psychologically and emotionally stunt his ability to react to situations appropriately and to use constructive alternatives to violence.

This does not mean a man who commits DV is a monster. It means that he does not have the proper tools to deal with his emotions or any alternatives to violence against his spouse. And there are many different reasons for this. Some men hit because it makes them feel less powerless in their lives. Some men hit because they are prone to bouts of rage for various biological or hormonal reasons. Some men hit because no one ever taught them any better. It still does not excuse the hitting. And, what’s more, these men are in DIRECT DANGER of self-destructing if they cannot find appropriate avenues for this sort of rage. Why is suicide so high in men? Because men have little to no support for the full range of human-ness that they engender.

I see so many men who feel anger and powerlessness, and I understand and empathize with how they feel. But I do not feel that this also gives them the right to act inappropriately. When I’m pissed off, I go running, I leave the room, I swear, I go play some angry music, I write about it, etc etc etc. I don’t deny that I’m angry and let the time bomb grow. The difference between myself and many people who are stunted in their ability to express themselves is that when they try and hold in those feelings they find “inappropriate” they inevitably come out later in inappropriate ways, and often have devastating consequences (for example, the babysitter who got more and more angry at the colicky infant but didn’t go blow off steam in a constructive way and then shook the baby and the baby died of shaken baby syndrome).
_____________________
“If that’s the case there should be thousands of womens sites denouncing all those women who are toxic assholes. ”
————–
There are, you just don’t read them. There are many women who hate the shit out of entitled assholes. Hell, the whole “I’m an attractive lady and it’s SOOO HARD” article that came out recently had a bunch of feminists up in arms about how she was basically using her looks in order to get special treatment and manipulate people. But MRAs have a response to this as well, “Oh yeah, well all feminists (it always ends badly when a sentence starts with this phrase) are ugly unwashed hairy bitches so they’re just jealous.”

We just can’t win. If we’re attractive and beautiful, we’re painted as evil vaginal temptresses who manipulate men for sex (because it’s not like any women ever enjoys sex or anything like that :rolls eyes:), but if we’re against people being treated like that, we must be ugly harpy, lesbian, [insert mean degrading stereotype about women here].
______________________
“After all women get all the State funding.”
—————
This is patently false. You can actually take a look at the breakdown of state budgetary funding on the state’s website. Hell, when I used to use Planned Parenthood for pap smears and such when I was REALLY poor in college, I used to see men there for prostate exams and all manner of things. My coworkers’ boyfriend actually sees a PP doctor who diagnosed and caught an aneurism in his brain that was about to burst (she’s a woman, by the way). Thanks to her quick diagnosis, he went to Stanford and was operated on several times and his life was saved.
_____________________________
“Yet the only place that does point out those toxic women are MRM sites,”
——————
The problem is that they define ALL women as TOXIC women (or ugly unmentionables who they often suggest should be lined up and shot). Really, you think that I should be killed because you don’t think I’m fuckable? I would never honestly suggest that as a course of action against men I find unattractive.

And if you think that women don’t find other women toxic, you probably haven’t been on the internet very wrong. There’s a reason I don’t find myself being able to get along with many other women. They’re often so catty and sexist that it’s enough to make me want to put a bullet through my brain. But I don’t extrapolate this trend to all women because I know that not all women are like this. Just as I don’t believe that one guy who hits his wife is the representative of all men, I cannot in good conscience believe in the one girl who acts like a dumbass ruining it for all women.
_______________________________
“and YOU either defend those toxic women or remain silent.”
——————

Wrong again. I call the shit out of toxic women (I was specific about this in my last post as well). I can’t deal with toxic people in my life. If I’m forced to deal with them (work, etc) I have coping and socialization mechanisms in order to minimize the damage they do as well. The damage that these people do is often similar to the damage done by men of the same brand of toxic (and don’t get me started on the violent alcoholic women that I’ve seen), but this does not make all women culprits of this terrible behavior.

I am not silent. You just aren’t listening to me.
________________________________
“In fact, this entire blog is all about hating men who call out those toxic women.”
——————-
I don’t think it’s really “hate” if we’re all looking at terrible behavior and saying “this is terrible behavior.” And hate is a strong word. I don’t have the energy or the desire to hate anyone, especially not

I understand that you identify personally with your beliefs and feel personally attacked when others disagree, but at the same time, can you understand that it’s also really fucking offensive to hear people talking about killing women for “pissing them off” or raping women “for asking for it” or beating the shit out of all women for DARING to be a woman in the first place and then acting like this sort of advocation of physical violence and harm is totally logical and acceptable?

In all honesty, I think that most MRAs are deeply angry and disturbed at the chains of male roles placed upon them- they feel that they cannot break free of them, that they are stuck, that they cannot be the person they truly are and express their feelings appropriately because otherwise they will be seen as weak or less than a man (and many MRA sites are very open about shaming men for actually being honest about their feelings because of the connotations of it not being manly). I think that this creates a toxic effect that just ramps up the feelings of misogyny more and more and more and then uses women as a group as a scapegoat for these intensified feelings when in reality it’s the hierarchy of the male pecking order that is causing this deep anxiety and anger.

The solution is discussion, empathy and openness. It’s casting away fears and not being an asshole to other people right out of the gate. There are obviously feminist writers who I find obnoxious and entitled in their own right, but I don’t for one second think that just because one person I don’t like is a feminist that they must be an inherently evil person. Same thing with MRAs. There are obviously a few psychopaths in the mix, but there are also a lot of men who feel alienated and alone- men who feel that the world has betrayed them and that no one gives a shit. And when you put all that anger together, it’s very very easy to reach a breaking point.
___________________________
“Why should men as a whole do anything at all to assist women as a whole in any way, when in return women always only stick up for women?”
————-
I think that human cooperation is going to be the difference between survival or destruction of our species. I’m tired of people telling me I should fight someone else because of their gender or sex. You know what? You can take your bullshit elsewhere, because I have many allies, male, female and intersex- all of these people are decent and kind people and they don’t have to use their sex or their gender as justification for being an ass to everyone else or thinking that there’s some kind of competition here.
________________________
“If you’re not willing to name the massive number of false acusers, liars and manipulative women.”
————–
This is shitty high school bullshit. There are also massive numbers of false accusers, liars and manipulative men. It’s NOT A GENDER THING, it’s a HUMAN THING.

Women don’t do this shit because they’re women. They do this shit because they’re HUMAN and many humans are devious little bastards.
__________________________
“You deny women use sex as a weapon and manipulation.”
—————
Not my argument, but honestly, once again, how can sex be a weapon if she is only one of many millions of people who have vaginas? Give me a good reason why you will die without having sex with one particular woman. Because honestly, I’m not seeing how a vagina can ever be used as a weapon beyond perhaps if she were sneaking grenades on planes with it.

This is also a sexist assumption against men- it assumes that men are stupid and can’t control their sexual desires and that all a woman has to do is waggle her boobies at him and he’s helpless and can’t do a thing until he humps her naughty bits. I have far more respect for men than this. We’re not bonobos, we’re humans.
___________________________
“Women don’t cry and use weakness as a strength, more manipulation. ”
—————-
Let me ask you something. If someone you didn’t know came up to you and started telling you to do something and then started crying or acting helpless and defenseless, what would you do? Would you feel that you were obligated to help that person or tell them to fuck off? The problem is that using crying, “weakness as strength” (whatever that is), and manipulation are not based on women alone. I dated a guy who used to cry and threaten to kill himself unless I stayed on the phone with him. He used the exact same manipulative tactics to keep me around far longer than was healthy for me. I reiterate- this is not FEMALE behavior, it is HUMAN behavior. HUMANS will behave in ways that benefit themselves, especially if they are assholes.

Hence, my job in life is to rid my life of assholes as much as possible.
_____________________________
“You seem to have the vision of women as some superspecies of angelic beings.”
——————-
Except not, considering that I am female and all. Pedestalling women is like rule number one of What Not To Do As A Feminist. Acknowledging that women are humans is the first step.
______________________________
“Still not willing to shed or spill a little blood for men, after all that’s been spilled for women?”
——————–
Stop talking in hyperbole. Are you honestly saying that women should accept abusive behavior from men just because men have endured abusive behavior from women?

I would argue that no one ever deserves to be abused, regardless of sex. It’s not a perfect world by far, but this is not an unreasonable goal in the future.

I am very tired of people who seem to think that “an eye for an eye” is not going to leave all of us blind and disfigured.
___________________________________

“Hell, women won’t even put forth the slightest effort of talking in favor of men. ”
——————–
Please extrapolate on this.
____________________________________
“Oh, I forgot, women are more than happy to stand up for men being able to cry like infants, wear dresses and snuggle dollies, along with a little boy on boy action.”
——————-
Now YOU are being sexist against men. Not all men are the same, and the fact that you think that crying, wearing feminine clothing or generally acting in any way feminine is threatening to your own version of what masculinity is, it says quite a lot about your own hang-ups.

The world is made up of different people. Creating hierarchies and pecking orders may benefit some men (especially in situations such as the PUA community and in power structures of the rich and wealthy) but it genuinely harms the very human male experience and diminishes the full range of humanity of men by telling them they can’t cry when they’re upset (because then they become “babies”) or they can’t engage in wearing feminine clothes if they like that sort of thing because then the world might end (dude, if it’s not your bag, then YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT). And finally, I have never understood the whole “women want men to be gay” thing. Seriously, what the hell? Heterosexual women in general implies women attracted to men. Men who are only attracted to other men are not going to want to have sex with heterosexual women. SO WHY WOULD WOMEN ADVOCATE FOR THIS?! I’m totally cool with gay people being free to do their own thing even if I’m not all that interested in dating other women, but honestly, I think that’s all part of “healthy human consensual behaviors.” Gay relationships are just as valid and can be just as dysfunctional as straight relationships. The only difference is that both people are the same sex, but once again, this doesn’t matter ALL that much because both women and men are HUMAN and as I have said before, most HUMAN behavior is not gendered.

Also, as far as I know, no one makes anyone gay (or straight), and just because you yourself may not be gay (or perhaps you’re simply so far back in the closet that you’re trying to break through the back of it because you’re so terrified about no longer being a “man” if you did come out), does not mean that women are making gay people exist. I don’t believe that there is such a thing as sexuality rigidity, and the fact that so many men are policed by the tyranny of absolute male gender roles is a testament to how fragile it is. If two guys kissing makes you lose your shit (and think that it’s ALL ABOUT YOU), perhaps you have a deeper problem at heart.

I do not think that being a man entails being an abusive, rampaging rapist. I do not think that abuse or rape should be tolerated by anyone anywhere (and I’m fucking tired of MRA’s honestly arguing that men cannot be raped- that’s why they’re fucking silent about it you assholes). If you think that these are “central” tenants to being male, then I pity you. Men are humans just as women are, and humans are capable of things of such beauty and wonder that if we ever manage to get beyond this stupid genderized hierarchical bullshit, I promise you, our species is going to go farther than we could even dream today. But first of all, we’re all going to have to agree that ascribing BEHAVIORS to entire genders is bad, mmkay?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Arks, have YOU ever interacted with a woman? Your posts would indicate otherwise.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@kate
“I have to post fast ’cause there’s family stuff tonight, but I’d say one of the biggest myths is that the only women who “count” are the hot ones, and so it’s ok to say that all women are bitches because they’re erasing the girls who are their friends but who they aren’t interested in sleeping with.”

Again, all the blame falls on men. I guess those “erased women” who refuse relationships with lowly mooks because they can do better, are blameless victims? The pedestal women place themselves on boggles the imagination.

asoldlace
asoldlace
8 years ago

@arks
In my experience, more men than women use heterosexual sex as homosocial bonding. And even for me (asexual and physiologically female), when and if I do have sex it’s not about ‘one-upping’ anyone. It’s about feeling and demonstrating affection for someone, and it’s about wanting to have fun — because yes, sex can be fun even for asexuals! (Though there are some people who are averse to the idea.)

“”If you’ve ever interacted with a woman you’d know how much pleasure they get from one-upping other girls and feeding on their jealousy. So for a woman, the knowledge that an alpha male has chosen her over other women to be his personal living fleshlight is far more intoxicating than any actual physical sensation could be.””
Having read a fair amount of explicit fanfiction written by women, I can assure you that the situation you describe crops up less in written fantasies than do lactating men. And the stories with lactating men tend to be of a reasonably high quality for anonymous fiction on the Internet, whereas your imagined scenario tends to read as though it was written by a fourteen year old.

On the other hand, I might just agree with you about this part:
“”the “idea” of having sex with someone is more exciting than actually having sex with them.””
I doubt it’s a uniquely female phenomenon, though. As a general rule, fantasy>reality.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Nanasha: Good luck with trying to reason with NWO.

Keep in mind that any argument that the majority of politicians, police, judges, bankers etc. are MEN is proof that women have taken over and are secretly running things with the help of (I think! it’s hard to keep straight) the Jewish Conspiracy and the Illuminati.

I’ll be interested to see if he is able to respond in any way–it’s not for nothing he was our TROLL OF THE YEAR last year.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

I may be a statistical outlier, but I personally enjoy having orgasms during sex with my husband even more than I enjoy orgasms at the hand of masturbation (tee hee, masturbation joke).

Sex with someone who I love, who I desire, and who loves and desires me is the best sex.

Perhaps these people have just never enjoyed actual sex because for them sex is all about points and bragging rights with male cohorts? Perhaps when sex becomes about the sex and not about the status or the studliness, it is actually genuinely enjoyable?

Something tells me that most MRAs have absolutely shitty sex. It would explain why they’re so quick to point out that women are terrible at sex and don’t enjoy it and that feminists must never get laid.

Haha, the joke is on them. I must remember to laugh manically the next time I come.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

I know. MRAs are the best entertainment out there. I mean come on. The circus comes to town every day, what better entertainment is there. Betty Bowers and Stephen Colbert couldn’t make this shit up if their life depended on it.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Nanasha
“If this is actually true, it’s incredibly sexist indeed and the law must change. Most ACTUAL feminists do not support benevolent-to-women sexist initiatives because that means that women are being given “special” treatment for having vaginas.”

What do you mean “if?” I gave the link to Big Daddy. Women, feminists in particular lobbied for this law and there doing it again right now. VAWA, VAWA, VAWA. Womens law is hate law.
—————
“I was not talking about DV specifically, I was talking about how most MRA sites seem to see ALL women (ie: anyone with a vagina and boobies) as being toxic skanks, as the DEFAULT POSITION OF THE GENDER. This disturbs and incenses me because as far as I’m concerned, to these people simply BEING FEMALE is some kind of heinous crime enough for a sizable amount of guys to automatically HATE MY GUTS and WISH ILL UPON ME.”

All western women dress and act like animals in heat giving away their sexuality and loyalty to any man within eyeshot. There’s no mystery to it.

Poor thing, hate your guts, wish ill will? There isn’t a media outlet, school, advert or state program that doesn’t preach the hatred of men and/or the glorification of women as part of the program. When you hear that same contempt taught in your schools, over every media outlet and by your government every minute of every day you’ll be treated equally.
—————-
“I dated a guy who used to cry and threaten to kill himself unless I stayed on the phone with him.”

Save your personal analogies. No matter what the tale women are either better at everything by personal experience and more of a victim. Everyone here says so. Just like men do this or that that’s bad, women have their own set of inherent faults as well. Stop pretending it’s otherwise.
——————-
“Now YOU are being sexist against men. Not all men are the same, and the fact that you think that crying, wearing feminine clothing or generally acting in any way feminine is threatening to your own version of what masculinity is, it says quite a lot about your own hang-ups.”

Incredible that you’d actually try and pull the old NWOslave is being sexist against men routine against me. I’ll so change my ways and my hang ups. Save for your womens studies class, it doesn’t work beyond the hallowed halls of acedemia. I hope that was your attempt at humor.
——————–
“I am very tired of people who seem to think that “an eye for an eye” is not going to leave all of us blind and disfigured.”

We’ll all be equal.
——————–
“Stop talking in hyperbole. Are you honestly saying that women should accept abusive behavior from men just because men have endured abusive behavior from women?”

Of course women should endure abuse. By law, as I’ve shown you men must endure abuse at the hands of women. If they retaliate or call the cops, they, the men will be punished. Women lobbied for, and had the laws enacted that place men as always being the aggressor and women as the victim. You did read the law women enacted, didn’t you? That is violence that women commit against men while claiming they commit no violence. There is no diffence between a mob boss calling for a hit and a woman using State violence to call for a hit.
—————–
“Not my argument, but honestly, once again, how can sex be a weapon if she is only one of many millions of people who have vaginas?”

All women use sex to manipulate. The withholding of sex for whatever a woman might desire. The incinuation of sex for material good, free meals, vacations, ect. The promise of sex for doing something. Dressing and acting sexual for other men to induce jealousy, then playing the victim. You women must think men are indescribably stupid and blind as well to not see exactly what you’re doing. Give men a little credit, would ya?

Shaenon
8 years ago

Yes, yes, you’re so clever. You must feel so smug and superior.

I do! I do!

Don’t think that compiling and editing the Book is all fun and games, though. There’s a lot of hard, sweaty, manly work involved. I mean, I just released the latest edition, and here you are already providing new entries! How can I keep up?

Marriage and Family

Housework for a family takes no more than one hour a day. Laundry takes ten minutes.

Anyone who can care for themselves can easily raise a child. Childcare only lasts until 9:00 AM, and parents have the rest of the day free.

Business

Hiring female employees doubles the cost of the goods a company produces.

Geography (New Category!)
The rivers of all major cities are lined with foul-smelling, dangerous factories. These factories are greasy hellholes staffed entirely by overworked, underpaid male laborers, but they also have well-appointed human resources departments staffed by women in fancy clothes, fine jewelry and perfume. Since all the men work as laborers and all the women work as secretaries, researchers are still unsure who owns or runs these factories.

Feminism

All Western nations, plus the U.N., give all their money to feminism. Thus, the feminist movement has billions of dollars in funding.

Linguistics

The word “dudebro” is hate speech.

Government

All financial and government leaders other than Rupert Murdoch are either black or Arab.

Shaenon
8 years ago

I’ve seen no evidence that women enjoy sex.

I am the least surprised I have been in my entire life, and I saw “The Village.”

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Nanasha
“Perhaps these people have just never enjoyed actual sex because for them sex is all about points and bragging rights with male cohorts? Perhaps when sex becomes about the sex and not about the status or the studliness, it is actually genuinely enjoyable?”

Stereotypes about men are always true. Stereotypes about women are completely unfounded. It’s so casual when women ridicule men, you’re just so used to it since it’s such a daily occurance.
———————-
“Something tells me that most MRAs have absolutely shitty sex. It would explain why they’re so quick to point out that women are terrible at sex and don’t enjoy it and that feminists must never get laid.”

Of course MRAs have shitty sex. You’re a woman, you spoke the words. That equals truth.
———————
“I may be a statistical outlier, but I personally enjoy having orgasms during sex with my husband even more than I enjoy orgasms at the hand of masturbation (tee hee, masturbation joke).”

If a man tells a masturbation joke, and any woman who happens to overhear feels offended, he could lose his job, end a polical career, be expelled from school, or any number of punishments.
———————
“Haha, the joke is on them. I must remember to laugh manically the next time I come.”

When a woman has an orgasm it’s beautiful and pure, when a man has an orgasm it’s vile and evil. It’s in all the papers.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Ithiliana
“I’ll be interested to see if he is able to respond in any way–it’s not for nothing he was our TROLL OF THE YEAR last year.”

Disagreeing with a woman who has clearly stated she doesn’t give a rats ass if every man up and dropped dead = troll.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Shaenon
“Marriage and Family
Housework for a family takes no more than one hour a day. Laundry takes ten minutes.
Anyone who can care for themselves can easily raise a child. Childcare only lasts until 9:00 AM, and parents have the rest of the day free.”

If it takes more than an hour a day to clean, stop throwing paries every night. Or you’re pitiful at cleaning. Men aren’t parents, a parent can’t have their child taken away. After little johnny goes to school, the rest of the day is free until he comes home.
——————–
“Business
Hiring female employees doubles the cost of the goods a company produces.”

Does hiring females in made up human resource positions to meet a quota increase or decrease the cost of goods? I would say increase but women are better at math. Personal examples have been given to me on this site proving women are better at math.
——————–
“Feminism
All Western nations, plus the U.N., give all their money to feminism. Thus, the feminist movement has billions of dollars in funding.”

I didn’t say all money I said funded by all western nations and the UN. You can actually put forth minimal effort and find out it’s true.
——————–
“Linguistics
The word “dudebro” is hate speech.”

It must be a term of endearment like filthy whore. Fuck em and chuck em. Bro’s before ho’s. It’s all good. Right? If saying the word man is too much to ask in the way of respect, I apologize.
——————–
“Government
All financial and government leaders other than Rupert Murdoch are either black or Arab.”

Murdoch was mentioned in the way of media. Basically, one of the five media powers that control all of your information.
——————–
Quite clearly, you’ve lied and manipulated to make yourself feel smug and superior. Is this an inherent trait of women or are you just personally adept at lies and manipulation?