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Hey girl, I wish you were a greasy smear on the road: The Men’s Rights subreddit hates on the lady rescued by Ryan Gosling.

Oh, the Men’s Rights subreddit is on a roll! Earlier in the week, as regular readers will already be well aware, a sizeable number of the regulars there were waxing indignant about a spermburgling girlfriend who turned out to be imaginary, and expressing sympathy for the imaginary girlfriend’s imaginary boyfriend, even though he’d admitted to punching her in her imaginary stomach.

Now they’re directing their wrath at a British journalist whom they’ve decided is being insufficiently grateful for being rescued from being hit by a speeding automobile by Ryan Gosling.

The backstory: Earlier in the week, British journalist Laurie Penny was wandering the streets of Manhattan, lost in thought, when she almost stepped off the curb into the path of a taxi. A man standing nearby grabbed her and pulled her to safety. That man happened to be famously hunky young actor Ryan Gosling.

Naturally, Penny tweeted about it, and her tweet aroused something of a Twitterstorm, in part because of the novelty of the situation, and in part because the thought of someone so dashing performing this little act of urban heroism made more than a few ladies (and men) swoon a little. I would probably react the same way if I heard a story about Kate Winslet saving a kitten.

Anyway, Penny was a little bit overwhelmed by all the attention her story was getting, and ended up writing a funny, spiky little essay for Gawker reminding people that while, yes, Ryan Gosling had indeed done a very nice thing for her, for which she was grateful, that it wasn’t really the biggest deal in the world. For one thing, she pointed out, lots of ordinary decent people perform similar acts of “heroism” all the time. For another, there are bigger heroes out there – like those working tirelessly to keep Rick Santorum from becoming our next president.

She ended the piece with this:

I really do object to being framed as the ditzy damsel in distress in this story. I do not mean any disrespect to Ryan Gosling, who is an excellent actor and, by all accounts, a personable and decent chap. …

But as a feminist, a writer, and a gentlewoman of fortune, I refuse to be cast in any sort of boring supporting female role, even though I have occasional trouble crossing the road, and even though I did swoon the teeniest tiniest bit when I realized it was him. I think that’s lazy storytelling, and I’m sure Ryan Gosling would agree with me.

And the thing is, I’m sure he would. I’m sure he’s as embarrassed about the attention as Penny is.

Well, for some people, Penny’s refusal to play the “boring supportive role” was simply unacceptable. Over on The National Review, antifeminist asshole Suzanne Venker wrote a snide and misleading piece portraying Penny as an ungrateful bitch:

If Western women want to know where all the good men have gone, they need only look in the mirror. Not only can men no longer hold the door open for women or pay the check after dinner, they can’t even save a woman’s life and get a simple thank you.

Never mind that Penny wrote explicitly that she was “grateful to the dashing and meme-worthy Mr. Gosling.” We can conclude that Venker either has terrible reading comprehension, or is deliberately lying about Penny. In any case, she continued on in this vein:

Feminists have totally destroyed the relationship between the sexes. Not all women seek the feminized version of the American male. Most women like big, strong, sexy men. They want men who are willing to put out fires, fight in combat, and, yes, even save damsels in distress. But in post-feminist America, Marlboro Man is a rare breed. We can thank women like Penny for that.

Well, actually, the reason the Marlboro Man isn’t around any more is that he died of lung cancer. (Well, to be more specific, two of the actors who portrayed the Marlboro Man did in fact die that way.) But let’s continue:

If Americans don’t wake up to the evils of feminism, the next time a woman walks down the wrong side of the street, the men of America will simply walk right past her and let her get hit.

And we’ll have no one blame but ourselves.

Really? Really? I’m pretty sure that Penny’s Gawker essay isn’t actually going to turn American men into a bunch of woman-hating psychopaths. I think we can all agree that Venker is being a giant turd here.

Well, not all of us, I guess. Someone posted Venker’s little screed to the Men’s Rights subreddit – you were wondering when I’d get back to them, weren’t you? And the regulars responded, well, like you would expect them to. Here are two of the most highly upvoted comments there, from two of the subreddit’s most prolific posters.

Stay classy. Men’s Rights Redditors!

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abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
8 years ago

I just think- I mean, in a racist community, there’s really no place for members of another race. In a sexist community, women and men both have a place, it’s just that men’s place is exalted above women’s- but it’s still objectively more constraining for men than a non-sexist society would be. Again- I’m not making any value judgement here… it’s just that I think the nature of sexism, again, necessitates a men’s movement.

God, I just have to say again how much I hate the sexism/racism parallel so often employed by those of little imagination, but wevs. In a highly racist/WN/KKK/Hitler-Nazi community, you’re right: No room for minority races. In your average-racist community, like the US, there’s totally room for members of all races; it’s just that there are huge social barricades set up to keep people in their proper places.

Similarly, in many MRA’s ideal realities (look for Antz’s writings on this subject, for example), women are completely separated from men, or just wiped off the planet as soon as the robotic womb is invented. You don’t really have to look that far to find this point of view.

I think what you’re really trying to argue is that a men’s movement is a rational response and is totally needed. And possibly you’re right. You’re just arguing this point really badly.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

A racist society has plenty of places for other races, like in the fields.

Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all night.

It’s sort of a joke, but it’s mostly just true.

Robert: The thing is, in a racist society, people of supposedly “inferior” races absolutely have a place. That place is doing the shitty jobs the “superior” race doesn’t want to do, for minimal pay and minimal respect. And in a sexist society, people of the supposedly “inferior” gender totally have a place…doing things like housework and the non-fun bits of raising children, for which they will receive minimal pay and minimal respect. Those don’t exactly sound all that different to me; the essential principle of “you do the hard, exhausting, boring, irritating jobs, and in return we will act like those jobs aren’t real work and you’re crap for doing them” pretty much holds whether we’re talking about migrant workers picking fruit in your orchards or women scrubbing your toilets.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

No matter how much you disagree with him, he still makes a good general point that men don’t feel “addressed” in a way women are.

If you ignore that society is built around them and pretend the world is a feminist space, then sure, but if the world were a feminist space that would somewhat obviate the need for feminism.

I just think- I mean, in a racist community, there’s really no place for members of another race.

Oh is THAT how it worked. Here my whole life I was under the impression that my place was in housecleaning. Thanks for whitesplaining to me how racism worked, ya fuckwit.

Robert Farson
Robert Farson
8 years ago

@darksidecat- I never said it wasn’t oppressive. Of course it is. Women’s oppression is a very real thing.

But I think your analogy is apples and oranges. Feudalistic systems were literally institutions on a macro level. I mean, if you’re going to be that hyperbolic, you might as well just draw an analogy to American slavery… after all, it wasn’t the landowners’ “place” to work in the fields.

Feudalism and slavery were both explicitly exploitative institutions that actively forced- physically forced- the subjugated peoples into servitude. Gender roles today- well, you could certainly say that people feel tremendous pressure to conform, and there is much discrimination, but it is not a tangible, legal institution or obligation, and thus there is no comparison. Now, if feudalistic society had just tacitly “encouraged” those born of peasant parents to work in the fields, you might have an analogy. Of course, then there would be no peasants.

Because look… I mean, if you can’t see the nuance I don’t know what to say. There are some men who would rather take on traditionally feminine roles, or who have been negatively impacted by the demands of masculinity. Can you say the same about feudalistic nobles or slaveowners with a straight face?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Peasants are great for all sorts of labor, therefore, feudalisms aren’t oppressive.

Good to know. e_e

You are such a fuckwit.

You know, you’re pretty much the last person I really want to get into an argument with on this site, so I’m kinda struggling on whether to derail from the now-boring jackass to talk about something else entirely XD

Robert Farson
Robert Farson
8 years ago

@Rutee and everyone- Okay, fair enough. Definitely. I was wrong re. the racism/sexism parallel. But I’m asking for opinions- do you think that a feminist-friendly men’s movement is desirable? Or not? There seems to be a negative response here, which surprises me a little.

Robert Farson
Robert Farson
8 years ago

Because I think society is built around men as a default, but not men as men. Right? It seems to me that would be a feminist-friendly goal, actually- for men to understand themselves as men and confront men’s problems as uniquely men’s problems, as opposed to universal problems.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Feudalism and slavery were both explicitly exploitative institutions that actively forced- physically forced- the subjugated peoples into servitude. Gender roles today- well, you could certainly say that people feel tremendous pressure to conform, and there is much discrimination, but it is not a tangible, legal institution or obligation, and thus there is no comparison. Now, if feudalistic society had just tacitly “encouraged” those born of peasant parents to work in the fields, you might have an analogy. Of course, then there would be no peasants.

You’re the jackass who implied that because there was a role for the inferior people, it wasn’t really oppression. It’s not zir fault that you can’t keep up with an objection.

Because look… I mean, if you can’t see the nuance I don’t know what to say.

You can’t follow your own claims ot their conclusion; that isn’t zir fault either.

Can you say the same about feudalistic nobles or slaveowners with a straight face?

Given the rise of the burghers and the merchant class, yes, there were a sizable number of nobles who’d trade their rights for money and the removal of the obligation to war and could not for a number of political reasons.

I know people have this fucked up view of feudalism as a huge institution that affected hundreds of years of europe, but seriously, no. Everything you learned in school was wrong.

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
8 years ago

Can you say the same about feudalistic nobles or slaveowners with a straight face?

Oh, I’m sorry, did you not know that there were arguments put forth on just that subject when slavery was legal? It was so hard owning slaves! They had to be fed and housed, and the poor things were barely teachable. It was actually quite an onerous responsibility that slaveowners took on. And when you thought about it, the slaves were much better off than free white people working in factories up North. You’ll see similar disingenuous beefs, by the way, from MRAs who don’t want their wives to work but can’t stand gold-diggers.

It’s possibly not an exact parallel, because I’m suspect that for all their bluster a slaveowner probably wouldn’t have traded places with a slave, whereas I do know men who genuinely want to be or hope to be stay-at-home-dads. So, stay-at-home parents aren’t treated as inhumanely as slaves, and caring for your own child is something that feminism has freed men to contemplate — yay us?

Robert Farson
Robert Farson
8 years ago

@Rutee- Well, my point was that the analogy is faulty because feudalism was an insititution whereas sexism and gender roles are not. I’m not saying it’s not an interesting comparison, because it’s correct in the vague sense of one position being exalted over the other. But I’m saying that realistically, men’s elevated status is nonetheless only relative- they’re better off than women, but still worse off than they’d be in a gender equitable society. This is not the case with feudalistic lords- they everything to lose and almost nothing to gain if the peasants suddenly revolted and created some utopian fief. Men, in my opinion, have something to gain with gender equality. Is this controversial?

Nevertheless, I’ll think about what was said here. I sort of wish you wouldn’t refer to me as a “jackass”, though; I respect your opinions a lot and I’m trying to dialogue in good faith. I mean, if we can’t talk respectfully without getting hostile, what’s the point?

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
8 years ago

This is not the case with feudalistic lords- they everything to lose and almost nothing to gain if the peasants suddenly revolted and created some utopian fief.

Oh really? Even with the obligations and stresses of feudalistic lordship breathing down their necks? The expectations of their parents? Being forced to marry and reproduce and all the boring ceremonies and stuff? Utopian life sounds grand in comparison, when you think about it, don’t it, Farson?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

This is not the case with feudalistic lords- they everything to lose and almost nothing to gain if the peasants suddenly revolted and created some utopian fief.

Dude, again, if you’re talking about fiefdoms, ur doin’ it wrong; feudalism as you learned it did not really happen. The fact that peasant revolts could ruin the system are why the peasants kept a lot of rights that people forget about. They’re just fucking meaningless without an infrastructure, and they weren’t as good as those fought for later. But seriously, this view that people were born in shit and died in shit, toiling away as slave labor? Not historically accurate.

they’re better off than women, but still worse off than they’d be in a gender equitable society.

This isn’t really certain. They’d lose their exalted status. It’s possible it’d be better for men and the loss of privilege would not be that painful because women working better means more economic opportunities as well, but again, uncertain and not guaranteed.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Nevertheless, I’ll think about what was said here. I sort of wish you wouldn’t refer to me as a “jackass”, though; I respect your opinions a lot and I’m trying to dialogue in good faith. I mean, if we can’t talk respectfully without getting hostile, what’s the point?

I do civility when I feel like it. I don’t fucking feel like it after being a cis white dude explained to me how racism and sexism work. If you don’t like being called a jackass, don’t be one, rather than expecting me to be civil while you are being one.

Robert Farson
Robert Farson
8 years ago

a. Though I am cis and male, I’m not white. I didn’t think it was all that relevant, but since it’s apparently important to you, I’ll oblige.

b. I was as clear as I possibly could, and I said many times, that I was merely putting forth my own disorganized observations and was essentially asking for input. I got it- some from you- and I value it. Thank you. But I say again- if we can’t talk without resorting to hostility at the slightest provocation or the most trivial disagreement, there’s no point. That’s one of the reasons I stopped commenting on PZ Myers’ blog. Smart folks, definitely, but it’s just an unpleasant atmosphere.

Personally, I’m convinced men would benefit greatly from gender equity. I mean, in a tangible economic sense, who knows, but it’s much more than that. With women working and men helping with the housework you’d have a lot of DINKs. I believe that the majority of fathers would feel more fulfilled if they were encouraged to spend time with their kids. I think that relieving men from masculine gender roles would have enormous psychological benefit. Violent crime would go down, which means less men victimized by said crime.

Seriously, I could keep going, but you get the idea. I don’t think there’s any question that men stand to benefit.

I appreciate the discussion we’ve had.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
8 years ago

>>>do you think that a feminist-friendly men’s movement is desirable?

It already exists. It’s called feminism.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Let’s see, so far we’ve got:

race-splainin’

what about the men?

tone trolling

please educate me

We’re almost at BINGO, folks.

Shadow
8 years ago

@Maya

Also wanted to give you a headsup: Ozy is genderqueer and responds to the pronoun zie, not she.

nwoslave
8 years ago

Poor Robert Farson. Landed smack dab in the middle of a hate group. This would be an excellent site for young boys to visit to learn how much they’ll be hated their entire lives by women.
————–
@Rutee Katreya
“There is some hostility to stay at home dads, but you’re seriously underestimating the tiny little factor that it’s women’s work. There’s no glamour in it, it’s low status, tiring, and thankless.”

Guess what? Every single man who has ever lived on his own has done what you call, “womens work.” Tiring? Contrary to the bogus, “study” of it being worth like 80K a year, It’s the easiest job in the world. At the most it takes an hour a day. I’m sure you consider having to stir the microwave taters at 3 minutes before nuking them another 3 minutes horribly oppressive.

No one’s dragging a washboard and bucket down to the stream to do laundry. Why it must take 10 minutes or so to wash/dry and fold laundry. I do it all the time. Are ya killing a chicken and plucking it? Are ya chopping wood for your stove? Keeping the home fires burning consists of turning the thermostat up or down. You poor things.

Child care is another bogus lie. If you know how to feed yourself, clean yourself and care for yourself, that is the exact skill set needed. Everyone can do it. It’s not like everyone is a helpless newborn for 18 years. Pack a lunch for little Johnny and off to school he goes, hubby’s off to work to the real low status, tiring, and thankless job. By around 8:30 or 9:00AM the rest of the day is free.

And this is what modern women call oppression? What say we spend the next five thousand years of women working all the outside jobs and men staying at home being oppressed. And let’s not forget that when you gals get home from those filthy, dangerous, low paying jobs, you have to praise men for all our hard labor. Ya gotta sex us all up real good as well or we’ll all talk about what a loser you are in bed and everywhere else. Just countless articles in the MSM about how much women suck and how great men are!
———————-
@Shaenon
“Everyone knows that Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valenti are two of the wealthiest and most powerful women in America, thanks to the millions of dollars funneled to them by the Secret Feminist Cabal.”

Top of the political heap. Obama/black, Biden/middle eastern, Hillary/woman. Top of the economic heap. Rothchilds, Rockefellers, Soros, ect, all middle eastern descent. Top of the media heap Time Warner, Disney, Murdoch’s News Corporation, Bertelsmann of Germany, and Viacom. Other than Murdoch, all middle eastern. As in non-white, non-christian, but they are men. Oil, and all large corporations, insurances, banking. Morgan, Moan & Loab, ect. All owned by people of middle eastern descent.

Perhaps you feminists should do a little research before pointing the finger of blame at white European men. At the top of the heap, there aren’t any white European men.

Feminism is funded by every western government and our UN based world headquarters. That’d be billions of dollars floated towards womens privilege and entitlement every year, not millions.
——————–
@abeegoesbuzz
“We have an MRM that’s full of dudebros and brodudes who want to fight over who’s got the more submissive foreign wife and claim that any discussion over whether men should be allowed to wear skirts or cry openly distracts from their mission of denying that rape exists, and you think that men seek out the MRM because they wish they could get in touch with their “feminine side”?

Dudebros? A hate slur. Pretty typical of women nonchalantly ridiculing men while expecting love, respect and deference in return. Teach me all about womens greater empathy. Yes, skirts and weeping in public. Such a major concern. Women wear skirts and fancy clothes to sexually manipulate. And they use tears to emotionally manipulate. It’s not a secret. Men and women are different.
——————
“To be clear, white-people stereotypes definitely put whites in a better place than minority stereotypes.”

Women are such coddled little creatures. Reality is quite the opposite of your privileged notions and what you feel to be true. Having traveled all over for the past eight years where the disposable mooks, (men) are employed, let me paint the picture that is reality. When you drive past all those stinky areas of any large city where you hold your nose and try to hold back the bile in your throat. That’s filled with men working low paid, mentally and physically exhausting jobs.

Not too likely that any of you will ever go down by the rivers that flow thru most major cities, but along the river are thousands of tiny little and large factories where men of every race work. They breath in toxic waste, they labor long hours, they lose their limbs and die many years earlier than women. It’s quite the diverse bunch along the underbelly of society. The one thing they have in common is they’re all men.

Oh, there’s a few women in each company, they’re easy to spot by their fine clothing, jewelry and perfume. They have made up middle management positions in human resources, mandated by the State to fill a quota. It might double the price of your consumables but that’s the price that must be paid for womens “careers” as oppossed to mens manual labor.

According to feminist theory, given the chance, women should be beating down the door to be employed in these filthy, dangerous jobs that are the actual jobs that make the world go around. All those fine conveniences you take for granted are built by the mooks. Since we have stats that women did far more of those manual labor jobs 50 years ago, and 50 years before that, we see that modern women refuse to do any manual labor when given the choice. Women refuse to do manual labor to support men or a man. This is a fact.

As always, women look to the top to see whose oppressed when you should be looking to the bottom. It’s an all mens club down at the bottom. Just chock full of white men, by the way. And since at the very top, there are no white european men, you’re doubly wrong. In the western world there are really two distinct classes, kinda like the time machine. Women are the finely clothed eloi living above ground, and men are the dirty morlocks working underground in sewers, mines and factories whose back breaking labor feeds, houses and clothes the eloi.
——————-
Sorry about the long post, Dave, but since I am the moderated man I have little choice. It’s the price a man pays for defying a goddess.

darksidecat
8 years ago

@Rutee, feel free to derail and talk about feudalistic roles if you like. 🙂 Also, discussions about feudalism probably aren’t where I am going to get er…passionate (i.e. pissed off)

I do know that role expectations weren’t as one sided as a lot of people think, the higher ranks were supposed to have obligations to the lower ranks (though enforcement or lack thereof got tricky at times), and medieval feudalism involved less direct interference than renaissance feudalism did. Post Renaissance British law often explicitly analogizes husband-wife to master-servant and king-vassal. Servants and vassal had more legal rights than slaves (which, sadly a look at US historical law makes brutally clear), but still institutionally less.

@ Robert, I was trying it out as an analogy for the concept of defined subordinate roles. I don’t like to use slavery as an analogy because 1) I’m not black, 2) though I am not entirely white, I look really white, which makes using slavery as an analogy even more problematic, 3) the role of white women in racist and slave owning communities vs. the role of black women and enslaved women (or enslaved men) can make the analogy seem dismissive of the realities of slavery and white women’s complicity in it. I don’t use slavery as an analogy not as a statement about the value of that analogy either way, but because it’s typically not my analogy to make. I do try-I have been trying-to avoid analogizing to current oppressions that I am not the subject of. Feudalism has more historical and emotional distance, and we can talk about the lingering effects of feudalistic systems or the scope and reality of those systems, without running into the social and emotional pitfalls of having a non-black person use black history, experience, and oppression as analogy.

Also, the notion that oppression of women is only worth ending if that benefits men is pretty fucking fucked up.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

Hey Robert-here is a tip, if you go onto a website called Manboobz, an obviously silly title, do not expect people to want to automatically talk about serious topics. Especially if it says “we mock certain people.” Nor should you expect anyone to be nice to you-this blog has been around for quite some time and you are not the first person to come on here and be Oh so concerned about those poor men and most of the time, turns out to be yet another troll.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings to not have people treat you with kid gloves but there is more to the reaction then people just being jerks because they can. And let me tell you, if you cannot handle someone being rude online, how do you think you will handle activism where people will not always be “OH MY GOD YOU ARE SO RIGHT LET ME PUT ALL OF MY RESOURCES AT YOUR DISPOSAL.”

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@princessbonbon:

Hmm… I should make a “jaded kirby” icon. Though I don’t really know what object or outfit a stereotypical jaded person would have…

katz
8 years ago

Kirby: A bottle with x’s on it.

katz
8 years ago

I never know what to make of someone like Robert: He says he cares about men’s issues but he actually just seems to want to argue about why sexism is totally not like racism. How does that help men?

Robert, what’s an example of a specific men’s issue you’d like to see addressed? We might have a more productive conversation if we knew what you were actually trying to accomplish.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I feel bad because the first thing I thought was “make a green Kirby Kirby.”

Because jaded always made me think “encased in jade.” And I am most familiar with green jade.

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Why it must take 10 minutes or so to wash/dry and fold laundry. I do it all the time.

Really, Mr Slave? That’s unbelievably fast!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

NWO, are there any men in your limited view of the world who DON’T work in factories or mines? Are there any women who work, according to you? Except for HR and in fine silky drawers, that is. What do you think I do?

Shadow
8 years ago

Sorry about the long post, Dave, but since I am the moderated man I have little choice. It’s the price a man pays for defying a goddess.

i find this to be the funniest part of the post. Has he forgotten what his posts pre-moderation were like?

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

Why it must take 10 minutes or so to wash/dry and fold laundry. I do it all the time.

Really, Mr Slave? That’s unbelievably fast!

Yeah. Washing my laundry takes the 30 minutes it’s in the washer plus the time it takes to haul them up and down the stairs. If the garment isn’t something you can put in the dryer (most bras and the majority of what I’d consider stuff that’s okay to wear to a low-level office job) it’s got to be hung up to dry too.

Maybe he just washes his boxers in the sink? o.O

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
8 years ago

Child care is another bogus lie. If you know how to feed yourself, clean yourself and care for yourself, that is the exact skill set needed. Everyone can do it. It’s not like everyone is a helpless newborn for 18 years. Pack a lunch for little Johnny and off to school he goes,

Thanks for the advice, NWO. Just feed them and bathe them. I sure do appreciate it when people who aren’t parents tell actual parents how to raise kids. If you haven’t stayed up all night with a colicky baby, chased a toddler around the house getting him out of trouble all day, broken up sibling squabbles in the backseat while you’re driving, or dealt with a temper tantrum in a public place, then you don’t know the reality of raising children.

According to feminist theory, given the chance, women should be beating down the door to be employed in these filthy, dangerous jobs that are the actual jobs that make the world go around. All those fine conveniences you take for granted are built by the mooks.

Women make up the majority of workers in dirty, low paying caregiving jobs. You imagine all women as working at high paying office jobs, rather than working at a daycare for minimum wage, waiting tables, or cleaning bedpans at a hospital. Men usually don’t want these jobs, because they have crappy pay and low status. They can make better money in construction, factories, or skilled trades. The dads working as plumbers, machine techs, and electricians couldn’t do their jobs if they didn’t have someone (usually a woman) to take care of their kids for them.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

The thing is, NWOslave, I have a vagina and I *have* worked those jobs.

My first ever job was as a maid in a hotel. Cleaned up people’s spit around sinks, used condoms, and dumped out glasses full of tobacco spit juice.

I worked on grounds crew every summer for 3 years in college. I hauled rocks, pulled weeds, picked up trash, you name it.

Post college, I worked at a variety of food service jobs. That went on for about, oh, four years or so. I was the chick that made your coffee, washed your dishes, and put your pizza together at Pizza Hut. I was a hostess for a while too.

Are you *sure* I’ve never done any manual labor? Or does it only count if I risk death every day?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Nnn, the main problem is that feudalism as it’s commonly understood really didn’t exist for very long outside certain parts of Germany, some of France(/Berry/Bourbon/etc) and England. It’s really, really, *really* a hot button for my girlfriend XD

Actually she was pretty rage-y at just Crusader Kings 2, which portrays, well, all of Europe working based on this understanding. Which is really weird, Paradox knows better, I’m sure. That and just how damn centralized and stable the HRE is.

And i’ts not just that vassals had rights; people pretty commonly don’t know just how much power the peasant class wielded. And not just the merchants either; the simple fact of the matter is that kings were constrained a lot by what would, for instance, piss off the mayors (Who were elected! So what pissed off a lot of people by default pissed them off!) The middle ages are really weird to talk about for this sort of thing.

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Maybe he just washes his boxers in the sink? o.O

That might explain it! But then how does he get them to dry so fast? Mr Slave please enlighten me, here I am spending hours doing laundry when I could be done with the whole thing in 10 minutes. Don’t hold out on us.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

owlyslave said:

This would be an excellent site for young boys to visit to learn how much they’ll be hated their entire lives by women.

lol. Hey nwoslave, could you find me just one thing here on manboobz, just one statement, that derides men just for being men?

Because it seems awful odd that an anti-man hate site is both run by a man and gets frequent comments from an audience that’s about 50% male.

It would sure be nice of you, owly.

Buttman
Buttman
8 years ago

I don’t think Othomsom was seriously wishing death on her.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

Yeah, it’s a funny thing. See, I’m a man, and I’m not really feeling all that hated here, Slavey. I daresay I’m rather well liked, actually.

But then, it’s obvious you’re conflating “man” with “bitter misogynistic hate-spewing asshole”, as usual.

PDA (short for PDA's Dada Acronym)

Biden/middle eastern

?

Shadow
8 years ago

@Dracula

I daresay I’m rather well liked, actually

Well, it is a good time to be a vampire 🙂

katz
8 years ago

Biden’s from Delaware; perhaps Slavey has confused the middle of the East Coast with the Middle East?

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Biden/middle eastern

?

Delaware is kind of in the middle of the eastern coast of the US?

…I got nothing.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Aw, man, ninja’d! :-p

katz
8 years ago

It took us both exactly 20 minutes to think of that.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Well, since Owly says the Rockefellers and Roth[s]childs are also of “middle eastern” background, and the only “middle eastern” background I can find for them is conspiracy websites pushing the idea that they’re of Jewish descent (I don’t know if it’s true or not, I’m just sayin’), I’m guessing Owly means Biden is also of Jewish descent.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

It took us both exactly 20 minutes to think of that.

Heh, yup.

I’m still trying to come up with alternate explanations. Best guesses so far include “Well, he’s Irish Catholic. Ireland starts with an I, as do several countries in the Middle East, so they’re basically the same thing!” and “Joe Lieberman is Jewish. All people named Joe are secretly the same person, so we can logically conclude that Biden is also Jewish and therefore Middle Eastern, as are the Pope, Stalin, Goebbels, the main character in Little Women, and that irritating plumber dude,” but mostly I’m favoring “NWO is completely unhinged.”

(Also, it’s sad that I’m so used to NWO’s awfulness by now that the “Jewish or supposedly-Jewish people are all ‘Middle Eastern’ and non-white” thing didn’t even faze me.)

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
8 years ago

Teach me all about womens greater empathy. Yes, skirts and weeping in public. Such a major concern.

It’s true, slaveman — I was thinking primarily of you when I wrote that most MRAs actually don’t give a shit about letting men act in traditionally unmasculine ways. Thanx for backing me up on that. I’m sure Farson will find your hatred of men educational.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“Teach me all about womens greater empathy. Yes, skirts and weeping in public. Such a major concern. Women wear skirts and fancy clothes to sexually manipulate. And they use tears to emotionally manipulate. It’s not a secret. Men and women are different.”

So now Slavey thinks that the idea that women have more empathy than men is based on the fact that women wear skirts? (See-through miniskirts, as we’ve previously established.) I am curious as to how that would work. Is this why he hates Ozy, because he thinks that if men wear skirts they’ll be forced to display empathy and since Ozy likes men in skirts (so do I, actually) she’s trying to do horrible things to them? Which would make sense if it wasn’t clear that Slavey does think empathy is a good thing, he just doesn’t believe that women have any.

You know when you’re at a bar or a party and some really drunk person keeps babbling incoherently in your ear? Reading Slavey’s is kind of like that, with bonus rants about how women should start punching each other in the nose.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Zie, not she – sorry! Typing too fast.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Reasons I have worn skirts in my adult life:

– Because it was a warm day with a nice breeze, so a skirt was the most comfortable choice.
– Because a skirt looked nice with the top I was planning to wear.
– Because I was going to the sort of event where a skirt was part of the expected attire.
– Because it was part of a costume of some sort.
– Because I was going contradancing, where virtually everyone, male and female, wears skirts because they are by far the most comfortable and pleasant contradancing attire.
– Because I felt like it.

Reasons I have cried in public in my adult life:

– Because I was sad.
– Because I was watching a sad movie.
– Because I was cutting onions.

Reasons that have literally never occurred to me as reasons to wear a skirt or cry:

– To demonstrate empathy. Somehow.
– To manipulate people.

Seriously, Slavey, why do you always go with the weirdest explanation when there are incredibly straightforward ones available? Maybe women cry to manipulate people…or maybe they’re sad! Maybe they wear skirts to manipulate people…or maybe they like skirts! Why does absolutely everything have to be some sort of bizarre conspiracy?

Incidentally, Slavey, my partner and I are long-distance right now. Generally, when we part at the airport, both of us end up crying a little. Is he manipulating me? Am I manipulating him? Are we both manipulating each other? What are we manipulating each other to do?

(Also, he tears up so badly around freshly-cut onions that he literally had to leave the building to stop crying last time I made a dinner involving onions. Clearly he was manipulating me to…um…I would say “not cook with onions” but he loved the dish involving onions and begs me to make it for him as often as possible, so I’m pretty stumped. But it was definitely MANIPULATION, right, Slavey?)

darksidecat
8 years ago

In my experience, women are on average more empathetic. But it’s not some magic womanly magic, it’s because women are taught to be empathetic and men are taught to be unempathetic as part of social roles.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

But it was definitely MANIPULATION, right, Slavey?

Only women manipulate men, in slave world.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

Because MRAs are never manipulative at all.