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Men’s Rights Redditors Indignant That World Notices They Are Assholes

Run, condom, run! Don't let her catch you!

Oh, boy. So that almost certainly imaginary  “dude punching his spermjacking girlfriend” story in the Men’s Rights subreddit the other day? The one that inspired all those Men’s Rights Redditors to totally defend the (alleged) puncher?

Well, now Jezebel has weighed in on the subject as well. Erin Gloria Ryan raises a few questions about ineedhelpnow1234’s implausible tale, and about the dudes who not only believed it but got all enraged at the imaginary punched girlfriend:

Where does this legend of the sperm swiping madwoman come from? And why won’t it die? Why are men’s rights activists so willing to believe that in a world practically dripping with sperm, women specifically want theirs so they can be pregnant and possibly farty for 9 months, stretch their skin out, and go through childbirth in order to control the men in their lives?

Apparently, at least one Men’s Rights Redditor is a reader of Jezebel, because he went and posted a link, explaining that

I normally try to stay neutral as best I can in matters relating to the men’s rights/feminism debate, but this has me grinding my teeth.

So this is what feminists think about one of our most pressing issues.

Presumably he is referring to the extremely pressing issue of girlfriends who flee the bedroom after sex, clutching used condoms and shouting that “I’m finally going to get the baby I deserve,” and how they totally deserve to be punched in the stomach so hard it leaves a bruise.

The discussion inspired this exchange:

Oh, and this one, too:

YadaYadaYada2 certainly has a flair for the dramatic, doesn’t he?

Men’s Rights Activists, so emotional!

EDITED TO ADD: I sort of started arguing with the regulars in the comments there, and Glarfugus set me straight on the nature of my sins against the Men’s Rights subreddit:

You quoted accurately, the problem lies where you quote perfectly sound posts and talk about them like they’re ridiculous. You address punching a woman in the stomach as though it’s something of high crime. I’m not saying it’s something that’s right, but punching someone in the stomach in a panicked situation where you have a risk of being fucked by the court system for the next 18 years? Reasonable action.

I put my favorite part in bold. The stuff about punching women is pretty special too.

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pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Antz: I don’t agree with violence, and I think anyone who condones the tummy punch is misguided (if anyone really believed the April fool’s joke, which I doubt). However, the (fake) story has made me think. What should a young man do (if such a thing really happened)?

Aren’t you supposed to be working (at least as a sideline) in the artificial uterus dept.?

So shouldn’t you be aware that sperm are sort of fragile? Most esp. when they are exposed to air? That twenty minutes is the upper end of their lifespan, outide the body?

So what he ought to have done is not worried about it.

Me, I realised when I started having sex, that pregnancy was an option. If I wasn’t willing to take the risks, I ought not be fucking.

But committing a violent assault, one that actually poses some risks of serious injury, or death (a shot to the abdomen which leaves bruises isn’t minor, it’s a lot of work to impose that much trauma to muscles which aren’t backed by bone) isn’t the answer, and your cutesy attempts to minimise it by saying, “everyone was in on the joke, and playing to the rubes” and calling it, “a tummy punch”, are stupid.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Antz: Word to the wise:

When Dr. Hurtsalot tells you “wait as long as you can before the Epi”, do not listen. The anesthesiologist is probably at home (meaning you are a 30 minute drive away from pain relief). My FOREIGN BRIDE gave birth like it was the 1500′s, waiting for Dr. Knucklehead to arrive. No epidural, no episiotomy, no doctor. Just a very surprised nurse.

So we can add stupid to liar (and troll).

I’ve helped at three births. None of them was so fast/surprising, in the onset that there wasn’t time for the hospital (with whom some planning had been done, what with pregnancies not being the safest thing in the world, and a fair bit of advance notice being present… 240 days, or so; on average), to have an anesthesiologist/OB present.

Even the one with the worst management (my second sister, 1984) there was an OB on hand; though he only came in at transition). My mother, who was refusing the epidural, had a gas-passer on hand; though he wasn’t in the room.

But you, you couldn’t, with your brilliant SCIENTIST brain, manage to have that happen.

I see why you worry about your wife leaving you, all things considered.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

Danny’s head was the size of a navel orange at birth (4 inches). My FOREIGN BRIDE pushed three times and popped him out. I do believe that she is baked from tougher dough than any of you.

I was born after three and a half hours of labor. A staff member of mine took a month and a half to successfully give birth (she kept going into labor well before she was supposed) and the actual birth itself took three days. Neither of those are indications of toughness and neither is your wife “pushing” three times.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

I am mystified by the idea that there is such a dramatic shortage of sperm available to women that they find it necessary to burgle used condoms rather than drop by the neighborhood sperm bank to take out a loan.
MRAs live a rather dismal fantasy life, poor things, though it always seems to include doing violence to women. I find that revealing.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

Actually the birth my staffer went through was pretty tough. Never mind on the indications of toughness on that one.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

I never did “violence to women”.

Sharculese
Sharculese
8 years ago

only violence to the english language, amirite

PDA (short for PDA's Dada Acronym)

Phyllis Schlafly lays it out for the MRAs:

“Find out if your girlfriend is a feminist before you get too far into it,” she said. “Some of them are pretty. They don’t all look like Bella Abzug.”

Due to their inability to master basic googling skills, however, MRAs remain at risk of inadvertently dating spermjacking misandrists.

(Hint: Abzug was just a manifestation of TEH GREAT FRIEDAN)

Xtra
Xtra
8 years ago

Strange, they think a woman can get sex with a man anytime she wants but have to steal sperm. o…k….

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I am honestly tempted to do a Craigslist experiment to prove that a woman does not need to steal sperm to get all of the free baby making juice she wants.

Anthony Zarat
8 years ago

Feminists justify punching someone in the face as retaliation for verbal harassment:

http://jezebel.com/5878537/why-i-punched-a-stranger

Or because they are on the rag and feeling ratty:

http://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have?tag=gossipdomesticdisturbances

Meanwhile, boob king Futrelle sings a mighty sermon, stirring the faithful into a frothy fury because a few MRAs responded to an April fool’s joke by saying it would be OK to tummy punch a GF to prevent “genetic material” theft.

Differences:

1) The Jezebel articles describe a real violence, the reddit punch was an April fool’s joke.

2) At Jezebel the articles support the violence, at reddit only a small number of comments support the violence.

3) At Jezebel the violence is either retaliatory or random, at reddit the punch was a desperate attempt to prevent theft (and 18 years of indentured servitude).

If someone is stealing a TV, the victim has a legal right to use force to prevent the theft.

How can feminists not recognize the legitimacy of throwing a punch to prevent theft of genetic material that carries a $250,000 liability? Not to mention the emotional, legal, and health consequences.

You are all a bunch of whining bigg .. you know the drill 🙂

pangea
8 years ago

I don’t have anything to say other than that gif is freakin’ hilarious.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

If you want sperm THAT bad and can’t afford to buy sperm there are people offering to make a baby with women on Craigslist Casual Encounters.

Antz: Jezebel is stupid. Don’t beat your boyfriends.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Once again, pacificism is only for the oppressed, not the majority. As a pacifist, that shit pisses me off. Not every feminist is a committed pacifist; that doesn’t change that it’s not advocated generally, and the character of rage at repeated oppression eventually leading to an immediate and violent response against a single person is not the same as the gender war you morons propose.

FYI, the second article is something an MRA that cared about men’s rights would like; it’s admitting that women can commit DV against men. Actually read things before you comment.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

No worries there, I tell dudes upfront that I’m a feminist. For some reason though, that seems to draw more assholes who think that means he’ll get to tame a shrew.

That I’m a spermjacking reincarnate of Betty Friedan is something I keep to myself until after I get pregnant off of the dead sperm in condoms and get all their millions.

Something else occurs to me, if ladies so wanted to rope guys into “servitude” it’d be easier and a hell of a lot more effective to simply say they were on the pill and that it just must not have worked. Those silly ladies! Don’t even know how to steal sperm efficiently!

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Antz: No, I read the comments and there wasn’t any “justifying”. Not even in the OP. There was explantion of what happened.

Then again, Peter Nolan© says that what she did is what equality justifies, so all she was doing was living as the MRM says she should.

And the real difference is the reddit post had lots of people saying it was hunky-dory to hit someone hard enough to cause internal injury, and the Jezebel post didn’t.

Of course you didn’t respond to my comment about what he ought to have done (i.e. nothing), nor the reasons I said that.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

You can’t judge the MRM by “a few extremists”, but apparently you can judge all feminists by a publication that’s been criticized by some of them. Well isn’t that… predictable.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Okay, seriously, what is up with the quarter million figure? My dad’s child support (that he and my mom, like most divorcing couples, arrived at without going to court) was twice as much per kid a month as the average $300 figure that’s being presented here (I’m assuming CAD = USD for simplicity’s sake, although their relative values varied throughout the period when my dad was paying child support). Had he been paying that sum starting when one of his kids had been born, rather than starting when he got divorced, it still wouldn’t have come to $250,000. It also wouldn’t have covered the cost of raising a child, even in Canada where child-rearing is less expensive than in the US, largely because of less healthcare costs IIRC.

I’d also like to point out that my dad, while not extremely extremely wealthy or anything, was a millionaire with a high-paying job when my parents divorced. I’m not really seeing how some 21 year old with student loans and no job is going to be forced to pay much more than him in child support, because that makes no fucking sense.

lauralot89
8 years ago

If women stealing sperm is one of the MRM’s most pressing issues, then they have even less of a basis for their “movement” than I thought.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

I keep asking for stats on sperm stealing.

For some reason, they won’t answer me.

Shaenon
8 years ago

Zarat, I salute your FOREIGN BRIDE for quoting Captain Kirk while giving birth, because that’s always been my dream.

lauralot89
8 years ago

Also, as is accustomed, my translation of Antz’s posts in this thread:

FOREIGN BRIDE VIRTUAL REALITY MISSISSIPPI DIVIDE I’M FLUENT IN PORTUGUESE YOU’RE INCOHERENT.

PDA (short for PDA's Dada Acronym)

Okay… Allison is a person in my social circle. I have serious issues with people using the fact she came forward and honestly told her story – what she did, why she did it, and what it is to be LGBT in fratboy Boston surrounded by a jeering crowd – as another cudgel to beat women with.

To immediately subdue some concerns of assault, I was wearing plush heavy bike gloves, punched him in the chest and stand 5’3″ tall. I’m certain the strike was scores more shocking than painful. To address some very valid concerns of my safety, I completely acknowledge that I put myself and my girlfriend at risk. I am sorry for this element of the situation. I probably would not have done that without the presence of the crowd on the sidewalk. It may have been foolish — which is not mutually exclusive from courageous.

Civil assault is “acting intentionally, that is with either general or specific intent, causing the reasonable apprehension of an immediate harmful or offensive contact.” It’s a judgment call if a yo-dude surrounded by a crown of yo-dudes on the street in Allston felt a punch in the chest from a short woman caused “apprehension of an immediate harmful or offensive contact.”

What’s not, reasonably, a judgment call, is whether a punch in the stomach during a domestic dispute hard enough to cause bruising is civil assault. It’s not. It’s criminal battery.

Sorry, but I have zero sense of humor about this.

drockthecasbah
8 years ago

People!! Never mind all of this!
That lady is making off with my sperm!! Help! I’m being Sperm-napped!

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

A navel orange is totes bigger than a cantaloupe, right, guys?

My dear wife looked at me and screemed “I .. have had .. enough .. OF THIS!!!” and boom.

Dude, your credibility suffers when I can hear you fapping to Star Trek movies.

Being a long time participant in r/mensrights, you cannot blame the reddit for extremists that visit it.

We can if a pattern emerges over years of the regulars not telling such folk to get lost and welcoming them with upvotes, open arms, and pie.

nwoslave
8 years ago

Just out of curiosity, where is everyone getting this $300.00 a month number? Since over 50% of those married get divorced at the womens dictate, I know many men who pay support, (they all lost equal custody in the feminists courts. No pussy = no custody). The average they pay is $200.00 a week plus health insurance.

So in the real world the average is $800.00 a month, and that’s reguardless of how often they have the child. Even if they have the child for 3 to 4 months out of the year they still pay $200.00 every week.

Since the men I know in the real world make between 15 and 25 dollars an hour, lets do some math with the average of $20.00 an hour which is 40K a year. Big Daddy takes 25% minimum cut, so that’s 30K a year. $800.00 a month is another 10K a year so that leaves 20K. If the man gets to care for the child for 3 months out of the year and it actually does cost $200.00 a week that’s another $2500.00 leaving 17.5K left for him which is about $9.00 an hour for himself. The woman has the further benefit of claiming the child as an exemption since she has the claim of custody, (ownership).

You can well imagine how little a man has left and how much a woman has left after the fun begins. Child support is simply an incentive to divorce a man, kidnap his family, (child/children) and have his wealth transferred to a woman. All backed by womens law and State violence. Or doesn’t womens vaunted superior empathy consider kidnapping, extortion, or being thrown in an iron cage for being poor acts of violence?

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Ms. Garrity, it is an honor to have been ninja’d by you.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

I don’t know about Mass, but in Calif. that would be battery, but not necessarily assault.

Calif. Penal Code §240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a presentability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.

It might be assault, if one can show the, “present ability” to commit violent injury.

Calif. Penal Code §242. A battery is any willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another.

Battery doesn’t require injury. It doesn’t require violence. Restraining someone, by grabbing their arm is battery.

Both of those are, in the main, simple misdemeanors.

But as I said, I don’t know what the law is in Mass.

The OP was however in a different section of the Calif, Penal Code.

Calif. Penal Code §242.(d) When a battery is committed against any person and serious
bodily injury is inflicted on the person, the battery is punishable
by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or
imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for two,
three, or four years.

(e) (1) When a battery is committed against a spouse, a person
with whom the defendant is cohabiting, a person who is the parent of
the defendant’s child, former spouse, fiancé, or fiancée, or a person
with whom the defendant currently has, or has previously had, a
dating or engagement relationship, the battery is punishable by a
fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment
in a county jail for a period of not more than one year, or by both
that fine and imprisonment. If probation is granted, or the execution
or imposition of the sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition
thereof that the defendant participate in, for no less than one year,
and successfully complete, a batterer’s treatment program, as
described in Section 1203.097, or if none is available, another
appropriate counseling program designated by the court. However, this
provision shall not be construed as requiring a city, a county, or a
city and county to provide a new program or higher level of service
as contemplated by Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California
Constitution.

Since the OP described the relationship as dating subsection 10 would seem to be in effect, thus making it, in Calif. a case of DV, and therefore subject to things like the Lautenberg amendment (restricting ownership of firearms).

(10) “Dating relationship” means frequent, intimate associations
primarily characterized by the expectation of affectional or sexual
involvement independent of financial considerations.

As I said elsewhere, any blow solid enough to cause a bruise to the abdomen is one likely to have caused injury, because there isn’t anything solid behind it to compress the tissues; it’s a brute force trauma.

Which is why I don’t think the OP was being honest. That the OP was trolling doesn’t change the nature of the reactions of the people who did think it was true; nor of Antz, who claims it wasn’t, but that it raises interesting questions about what is a reasonable recourse if a woman is trying to, “steal one’s sperm”.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Damn it, the formatting is broken, even though I managed the blockquotes.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Or because they are on the rag and feeling ratty:

It’s interesting how, even when discussing actual DV by women, Antsy can’t help slipping in misogyny, as none of the article he linked discusses periods or “feeling ratty.”

And by interesting, I mean “what a dumbfuck.”

I know that’s not grammatical, but still.

Also, I’m pretty sure the 250,000$ burden is a number referring to the overall costs of raising a child, NOT a number derived from child support payment data. (For those keeping track, this was another refrain on the Tom Leykis Show that came up when discussing the tabasco-in-condom strategy. For whatever reason, the figure has been subtracted by about 50,000$ since the days when I listened.)

Pecunium brought up another point I was going to talk about, but I held my tongue when I thought I would be contradicted by people who know what they are talking about (e.g. Pecunium). Namely, punching someone in the stomach hard enough to leave a bruise is excessive force, by far. Having been a younger brother, my own experience is that a “tummy-punch” can be temporarily incapacitating and still fall far short of leaving a bruise. You have to really get dangerous to leave a bruise, I expect.

BTW, treating the redditor’s story as a hypothetical, how about “call the police”?

And by all that, I mean “Ansty is such a dumbfuck.”

pillowinhell
8 years ago

A quarter milion over 18 years? Well that would work out to a little more than babysitting did each month before my daughter went to school and I was working full time. Cost a thousand a month to see her properly cared for. Her father paid 250 per month for all expenses. We were both making the same wages. So sure.. There was lots of money being made…by the government in taxes, by baby sitters and by a father who wasn’t paying what it costs to raise a child.

PDA (short for PDA's Dada Acronym)

Pecunium, point well taken. IANAL and I can’t say what is or is not reasonably a judgment call, legally.

What I meant to say is AntZ is a dumbfuck.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Tuley Logger: If he hit her as hard as the story implies, she wasn’t going to be leaving anytime soon. Abdominal bruising like that is incapacitating. It drops one to the floor. It leaves one unable to get out of bed for several days.

So either he is lying, or she is. Since he claims the police talked to her, then came to arrest him (and he’s all upset that she said if he didn’t contact her by X date she’d call the police, and on X date she did… wha!), either there was bruising, or there was more to the story (if true) than he is relating.

That, or it’s all bullshit. Even if it is Bullshit, Antz seems to think it’s regrettable, but understandable, that a man commits a serious bodily injury to prevent something which is almost certainly not going to do him any harm (because the odds of her being pregnant as a result of this are infintesimal).

Maija
8 years ago

She had no episiotomy, and was not lucky at all.

I know it’s a little nit-picky in the midst of all the troll crazy. But fyi episiotomies are rarely medically necessary and usually cause more damage than they hope to prevent.

Pet peeve of mine.

Maija
8 years ago

Ugh quote fail. That was directed at Antz.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

I lov how one of the guys on reddit says that /mensrights is this amazing thing because it has over 33100 subscriptions. Fred Figglehorn on Youtube has 170900 subscribers and has starred in 2 (two!) motion pictures. If you don’t know Fred (how I envy you), his whole bit is having a squeaky voice and being annoying. Really, really annoying.

But, you know, 33100 subscriptions, go you!

Jean-Renee
Jean-Renee
8 years ago

Anthony Zarat: No dates, sorry. Can’t take the risk.

No problem, honey. I think I can speak for damn near everyone here when I say, “You’re not my type.”

Holly Pervocracy (re: AntZ): Although I admit it baffles me how you’re avoiding thinking about the question.

Easy. He just doesn’t think. Period.

Xtra: I think I get MRA logic now. No abortions because, of course women are supposed to have 18 years of servitude. but men only if they have a wife/woman slave that will never divorce them no matter how crappy they treat her. Women are just paying for their consequences.Men aren’t supposed to have those. Do I have it right?

I think that’s exactly (Xactly?) right.

MollyRen: Frankly, I’m wondering about the viability of sperm gotten in this way to begin with. What little I know about artificial instemination would makes it out to be MUCH more difficult.

It might be possible to retrieve viable sperm this way, but it’s hardly probable.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

@ pillowinhell and everybody — I think I may have mentioned that I work for a lawyer.

Well, in my state child support is determined by a formula. Seriously, there’s an Excel spreadsheet I use whenever we need to calculate it. This formula takes into account percentage of parenting time, number of children, income, childcare expenses, health insurance, etc., etc. and spits out a presumptive child support order which is a round dollar amount.

The judge cannot change that amount willy-nilly. IANAL, there’s probably some circumstance in which the judge can make a call, but in all of my experience this formula is the ultimate authority.

And everyone wants to minimize the amount of child support they’re paying, or maximize the amount of child support they’re receiving. I don’t blame people for wanting to maximize their receipts (see this whole thread for child rearing costs) but I’m getting sick and tired of guys* who go on in self-righteous anger about how their ex-partner wants so much money in child support and guess what she has bought herself a truck that’s at least five years old! If she’s got money for a truck, she ought to have money for a child!

And I want to point out that, if this ranting guy has the family’s sole vehicle, then of course his ex has bought herself a new car because guess what, cars are necessary in this country. Also, she doesn’t owe you a continuing itemization of what she spends the money on after the divorce is finalized.

But I can’t because I have to make like frickin’ Jeeves without the deadpan snark and promise them that our office will do what it can to help them.

Okay. Definitely ranty tonight. Think I’ll go art** for a while.

*I’m all for gender-neutral and inclusive language but I have never heard a(n apparently cis) woman complain like this, only (apparently cis) men.

**Verbing, as has been extensively documented, weirds language.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

If you don’t know Fred (how I envy you),

Envy no longer! Damn, I’m going to miss that ignorance. It was real blissy.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

@Falconer
I deeply apologize. No one should suffer Fred.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

No one should suffer Fred.

Right said.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

We have the same spreadsheet up here. Thing is, he wasn’t working much when we first split and when to court. When he was making better money, I couldn’t afford to take time off work to drag him back into court. Now, I’m not paying for sitting, so the payment is more in line with the actual childcare costs. Which is jkust fine in my books, but the first six years were hell.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

A wink is as good as a nod, and I shall now avoid him like plague.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

@Falconer

I don’t blame people for wanting to maximize their receipts (see this whole thread for child rearing costs) but I’m getting sick and tired of guys* who go on in self-righteous anger about how their ex-partner wants so much money in child support and guess what she has bought herself a truck that’s at least five years old! If she’s got money for a truck, she ought to have money for a child!

This attitude annoys the hell out of me. “Why should I have to pay child support? My ex went on vacation/wears nice clothes/is dating someone who paid for dinner once!” You have to pay child support, you great asshole, because you are still the parent of that child and partially responsible for that child. By that logic, if a non-custodial parent has money enough to purchase a vehicle, they should probably give that money to the custodial parent, because as soon as you have a kid you’re no longer to ever spend money on things you want! Even things that will benefit both you and the child!

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Viscaria
“You have to pay child support, you great asshole, because you are still the parent of that child and partially responsible for that child.”

That’s incorrect. Custody = parenthood. If a man is a parent, he has equal custody. If he doesn’t have equal custody and want’s/tried to get equal custody, he’s an ATM for a woman whose kidnapped his child and is using State violence to keep him as an ATM.

debbaasseerr
8 years ago

They’re always tryin’ to steal me lucky sperms!

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Mr Slave, so you’re saying that adults no longer have parents when they move out or turn 18? I mean, their parents no longer have custody of them so…

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

NWO. NWO, that is just really, really wrong. Non-custodial parents almost always still see their children. It’s… you’re just… no. Anyway, if a non-custodial parent actually doesn’t get to see their kid, and the other parent cannot afford to take good care of that kid, what’s your solution? Fuck the child’s needs, because the other parent needs to be punished for not giving you your “property”? Yeah, that sounds like good parenting material, can`t believe the other parent got custody. 9_9

lauralot89
8 years ago

NWO’s heart just isn’t in his trolling anymore. Perhaps he’s slowly beginning to realize how worthless his cause is, but can’t bear to lose face?

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

I actually agree with NWOslave about “custody.” The term “parent” is ridiculous when the one who has custody can steal your kids.